Chandler wrote:

homeskillitprigioni wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

You keep acting like KP has been a top 5 player. You are seduced by the potential but don’t factor in that he has only had one good year and coming off a major injury which might not make him the same again

I don't think anyone's saying he was a top 5. But we didn't even get top 50 player value for him.

is he top 5, no. Can he be top 5 realistically, absolutely yes with the right system and coach. Guy is 7'3" with brains and touch.

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

What has KP done to earn the butt-kissing you're advocating. Remember, it's not that he was on the fence or non-committal. His camp said they didn't want to be here. What were the Knicks suppose to do, stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they didn't hear anything? KP apparently wasn't on board with the plan the Knicks laid out to him. Were they suppose to scrape their plan just to appease KP? Again, maybe you do this for Lebron, not for KP.

That's what Mills says. You're hearing it from one side after huge outrage. WHat KP didn't want was a dysfunctional franchise and he has every right to think that. How can you honestly doubt he wanted to be here?

Back when he skipped the exit interview i was as pissed as anyone and thought that it was within Phil's right to trade him. But then guys like Crush and a number of other reasonable posters outlined all of the dysfunction around Phil and that the last straw may have been his public treatment of Melo. So be it. Cooled down. But the point was clear he wants to win in NY and he knows enough that you need an institution for that

KP is smart. You can't deny that. He speaks better English than half our team who was born here. When he saw the Dallas game and guys having wide open layups, people not within 3 feet of DeANdre, he knew it wasn't a matter of our team being young, inexperienced, losing but at least playing the right way; Instead he knew it was a team that was clueless. This has been confirmed by shipping him out to receive a younger, shorter Melo (DSJ) and two picks that will be inconsequential. 2 years from now Luka will be a monster, KP will be a monster. Barnes will be all of 28. Those will be high draft picks

I'm sure when he makes his feeling public it will be one sided in the other direction to make him not look bad. It's that old saying, "your side, my side, and then the truth." It kinda sounds like perhaps you're projecting your personal feeling about the Knicks on KP?

He has every right to be happy, upset, sad etc. Nobody can micromanage his emotions. If he wanted to bolt because he wasn't feeling the coach, that's his prerogative. Whatever the reason the Knicks couldn't afford to have their future banking on KP's emotions. If he's not all-in then he had to go. My preference would've been for KP to say he wanted to stay, and I bet the Knicks felt the same way. But you can't function on what you hope he feels and gotta deal with the reality.

homeskillitprigioni wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

You keep acting like KP has been a top 5 player. You are seduced by the potential but don’t factor in that he has only had one good year and coming off a major injury which might not make him the same again

I don't think anyone's saying he was a top 5. But we didn't even get top 50 player value for him.

you can't be serious. compare what we got to what the Cavs got for Kyrie. Everyone agrees that Kyrie would be an upgrade over KP. So we got more quality assets than the the Cavs did for a better player.

It's more than Sacramento got for Boogie.

It's probably on par what the Pacers got for Paul George.

So yeah I think we did all right all things considered

ramtour420 wrote:Guys what if I told you that we could have a franchise center that shoots 43.9% from the field and gets 6.3 rebounds per game? But refuses to play Center? Oh and he is injury prone at 7'3. Huh? Huh? Also said player has an attitude problem? What's not to like? He also tells players around the league not to come to the Knicks? Wouldn't it be great to have him as our cornerstone?

something else that I was willing to overlook while KP was a Knick but now you look at it and are like WTF.

Bottomline is we inflated his abilities because Durant called him a unicorn. Turns out, he really wasn't a unicorn but just the first player of a new center revolution. But KP really isn't even a center, he's a PF. KP hated banging with the big boys on the low block

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

What has KP done to earn the butt-kissing you're advocating. Remember, it's not that he was on the fence or non-committal. His camp said they didn't want to be here. What were the Knicks suppose to do, stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they didn't hear anything? KP apparently wasn't on board with the plan the Knicks laid out to him. Were they suppose to scrape their plan just to appease KP? Again, maybe you do this for Lebron, not for KP.

That's what Mills says. You're hearing it from one side after huge outrage. WHat KP didn't want was a dysfunctional franchise and he has every right to think that. How can you honestly doubt he wanted to be here?

Back when he skipped the exit interview i was as pissed as anyone and thought that it was within Phil's right to trade him. But then guys like Crush and a number of other reasonable posters outlined all of the dysfunction around Phil and that the last straw may have been his public treatment of Melo. So be it. Cooled down. But the point was clear he wants to win in NY and he knows enough that you need an institution for that

KP is smart. You can't deny that. He speaks better English than half our team who was born here. When he saw the Dallas game and guys having wide open layups, people not within 3 feet of DeANdre, he knew it wasn't a matter of our team being young, inexperienced, losing but at least playing the right way; Instead he knew it was a team that was clueless. This has been confirmed by shipping him out to receive a younger, shorter Melo (DSJ) and two picks that will be inconsequential. 2 years from now Luka will be a monster, KP will be a monster. Barnes will be all of 28. Those will be high draft picks

There are dumb people who speak well too so I wouldn't use that as a criteria gauge his intelligence.

I'm sure when he makes his feeling public it will be one sided in the other direction to make him not look bad. It's that old saying, "your side, my side, and then the truth." It kinda sounds like perhaps you're projecting your personal feeling about the Knicks on KP?

He has every right to be happy, upset, sad etc. Nobody can micromanage his emotions. If he wanted to bolt because he wasn't feeling the coach, that's his prerogative. Whatever the reason the Knicks couldn't afford to have their future banking on KP's emotions. If he's not all-in then he had to go. My preference would've been for KP to say he wanted to stay, and I bet the Knicks felt the same way. But you can't function on what you hope he feels and gotta deal with the reality.

All fair points except I don't get why the only option is to let him go. Toronto traded one of its 2 best players for Leonard even though the conventional wisdom is he wouldn't resign with them. They did so with the hope they could convince him to stay..

We had KP locked up long enough that we could show him the rebuild was a good thing, coach was great etc -- if that were the truth of the matter.

Where is Triple Threat when you need him. He'd come up with some story about the hot chick who dumps you, and you go off finding negatives about her instead of facing up you screwed up and should have done her right

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

What has KP done to earn the butt-kissing you're advocating. Remember, it's not that he was on the fence or non-committal. His camp said they didn't want to be here. What were the Knicks suppose to do, stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they didn't hear anything? KP apparently wasn't on board with the plan the Knicks laid out to him. Were they suppose to scrape their plan just to appease KP? Again, maybe you do this for Lebron, not for KP.

That's what Mills says. You're hearing it from one side after huge outrage. WHat KP didn't want was a dysfunctional franchise and he has every right to think that. How can you honestly doubt he wanted to be here?

Back when he skipped the exit interview i was as pissed as anyone and thought that it was within Phil's right to trade him. But then guys like Crush and a number of other reasonable posters outlined all of the dysfunction around Phil and that the last straw may have been his public treatment of Melo. So be it. Cooled down. But the point was clear he wants to win in NY and he knows enough that you need an institution for that

KP is smart. You can't deny that. He speaks better English than half our team who was born here. When he saw the Dallas game and guys having wide open layups, people not within 3 feet of DeANdre, he knew it wasn't a matter of our team being young, inexperienced, losing but at least playing the right way; Instead he knew it was a team that was clueless. This has been confirmed by shipping him out to receive a younger, shorter Melo (DSJ) and two picks that will be inconsequential. 2 years from now Luka will be a monster, KP will be a monster. Barnes will be all of 28. Those will be high draft picks

There are dumb people who speak well too so I wouldn't use that as a criteria gauge his intelligence.

I'm sure when he makes his feeling public it will be one sided in the other direction to make him not look bad. It's that old saying, "your side, my side, and then the truth." It kinda sounds like perhaps you're projecting your personal feeling about the Knicks on KP?

He has every right to be happy, upset, sad etc. Nobody can micromanage his emotions. If he wanted to bolt because he wasn't feeling the coach, that's his prerogative. Whatever the reason the Knicks couldn't afford to have their future banking on KP's emotions. If he's not all-in then he had to go. My preference would've been for KP to say he wanted to stay, and I bet the Knicks felt the same way. But you can't function on what you hope he feels and gotta deal with the reality.

Right on. I wanted KP to stay. But, even as a fan, I was getting tired of his team's tantrums. Imagine your running a company and you have a rising star who shows great potential. Sure, you give some leeway. Hell, you might give him a lot of leeway. But you still need boundaries. If he starts acting out, bad-mouthing the management team you heavily invested in, and telling other prospective employees not to work for you, then you have to move on. The respect isn't there. I'm not sure Perry is the man for the job, but he's only been here for 1.5 seasons. How can you accuse him of not installing a culture in that short a period of time? I agree KP is a unique talent. Generational? No, he's not in the company of Wilt, Lebron or Jordan. We still don't know what position he is. He's been indignant about playing center, when it's clearly where he has the greatest impact. Also, he's really only had one dominant quarter of season. He hasn't proves he can sustain even half a season or dominant plau. Anyone remember the Bulls games where a rookie Lauri Markonnen showed more physical toughness than our Unicorn? Let's just see how this plays out by before hand out any final grades.

fair enough. I still can't believe he got punked by Marcus Smart. He was dominating the celts and brad put smart on him to muscle him down low

having said that we should also be mindful that Giannis wasn't Giannis year one, either, and so on. The issue is whether you think he would have developed his game to become a monster (I think strong yes) or whether he'd become a primma donna (here i think KP is probably a nice guy and Janis is a dick)

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

1. KP complaining about the culture shows he doesn't get it. Culture is nothing more than the collection of individual behaviors - including his! - in pursuit of a common outcome. In this case, a chip. KP needs to look in the mirror and get some big boy pants if he's ever going to be a leader in his own right.

2. Kudos to Mills and Perry for calling KP's hand almost before he left the building. You don't like NYC? I hear Dallas is nice in the summer, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

3. Could the real end game not.be Durant but Giannis? If GF pulls a Davis then we're primed. GF >>>>>>>>> KP

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

Not debating that at all. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to try and justify the trade because of his injuries. They happen. And as you note there are some damn good players who have had big ones, or repeated times away from the team. Add Embid to that list. Every team would want him. (Of course we would all prefer players who could play a full 82 but the point is it's fallacious logic to rationalize the trade based on injuries just as it would be for any of the guys mentioned above)

KP was a unique talent, at a perfect age for the rest of the team. He legitimately questioned the direction of the team, and Janis probably acted like an a-hole. This FO decided to trade him, rather than convince him. That's it in a nutshell

I dont know anyone who was trying to justify the trade solely based on KP's injuries, but it certainly can be ONE of the reasons, and justifiably so.

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

Not debating that at all. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to try and justify the trade because of his injuries. They happen. And as you note there are some damn good players who have had big ones, or repeated times away from the team. Add Embid to that list. Every team would want him. (Of course we would all prefer players who could play a full 82 but the point is it's fallacious logic to rationalize the trade based on injuries just as it would be for any of the guys mentioned above)

KP was a unique talent, at a perfect age for the rest of the team. He legitimately questioned the direction of the team, and Janis probably acted like an a-hole. This FO decided to trade him, rather than convince him. That's it in a nutshell

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

Not debating that at all. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to try and justify the trade because of his injuries. They happen. And as you note there are some damn good players who have had big ones, or repeated times away from the team. Add Embid to that list. Every team would want him. (Of course we would all prefer players who could play a full 82 but the point is it's fallacious logic to rationalize the trade based on injuries just as it would be for any of the guys mentioned above)

KP was a unique talent, at a perfect age for the rest of the team. He legitimately questioned the direction of the team, and Janis probably acted like an a-hole. This FO decided to trade him, rather than convince him. That's it in a nutshell

They tried convincing him but he instead acted like an entitled sh#t and demanded a trade and told players not to sign here. Still think he is worth defending?

assumes a lot of facts not in evidence. Even Mills (if you would be dumb enough to believe him) hasn't said that. He said he got a "vibe" that KP might not like the direction of the team. Long way from your assumptions. Who did he tell not to come and how so -- as in jest [this is a **** show which BTW is the truth] or as in [I won't be here when you come here; yes it's that bad]

Anyway I'm out on this. perfectly fine to have different opinions. i'll try and figure out how to find the search function if the future proves me right so as to have some good-natured heckling (and would expect the same in return)

I'll bet on KP; and I have you down for Mills/Perry