WCS compares with other elite Defensive bigs who are not as strong offensively.

DeAndre Jordan
Dwight Howard
Joakim Noah
Andre Drummond
Tyson Chandler
Timofey Mozgov
Andrew Bogut

nixluva wrote:Some are simply overstating WCS's flaws. He may have had some moments where he wasn't aggressive offensively or maybe lost focus, but really that happens with so many young players in College. It's not a valid knock on the guy when compared with his many strengths. I think his talent is at Elite levels physically, which for a 7'er is great. He's refining his offensive skills which will only make him that much more of a big time player in the NBA.

WCS compares with other elite Defensive bigs who are not as strong offensively.

DeAndre Jordan
Dwight Howard
Joakim Noah
Andre Drummond
Tyson Chandler
Timofey Mozgov
Andrew Bogut

If Stein can develop an offensive game close to Mosgov and still manage to go all out on defense, that dude will be an all star for years to come.

jbeachboy wrote:was he somehow limited cause he had to play with towns and lyles?

CrushAlot wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:was he somehow limited cause he had to play with towns and lyles?

Did they play on his high school team also? The high school stats that Walt posted don't look like those of a dominant big man on either side of the floor.

If you think he was so poor in HS basketball, how did he get recruited to Kentucky by Calipari who only recruits the top HS players in the country. The fact that it took WCS 3 years to develop could work to his advantage as he had 3 years of good college coaching and competition before entering the pros.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:was he somehow limited cause he had to play with towns and lyles?

Did they play on his high school team also? The high school stats that Walt posted don't look like those of a dominant big man on either side of the floor.

He played 12 games his senior year after the football season was over.

Still you'd think by accident he'd grab more than 3 rbs and block more than 0.4 shots a game. He was probably guarding guys like 6 inches shorter than him.

I never saw him play in high school, so I can't say. I've seen him over the past three years at Kentucky, though certainly not every game, and always liked him as a player.

Right now I am hoping and praying we some how get D'Angelo Russell. I'd be okay if the brain trust decided Porzingis was the guy. I'd be okay if the brain trust decided Winslow was the guy. I'd be okay if the brain trust decided Mudiay was the guy. I'd be happy if they decided Stein was the guy.

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Right now WCS looks like he's on the up swing with a better chance to realize his full potential. That's what the training has exposed. He's got more talent than he had shown so far, which is a good thing for the Knicks who need a defensive big like WCS. If he has improved his offense he's a possible All Star level talent and worthy of the #4 pick.

jbeachboy wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's silly to go back to HS to try and assess what kind of player WCS has developed into now. Even his time at Kentucky isn't going to tell you the whole story. Why do you think teams went to Kentucky practices so much? There was more to see from all of their players. If we only went by the college season there'd be no need for further workouts. GM's and scouts know that these kids will get more intense training and diet help after the school year ends. Whatever talent they have is going to be enhanced by the time and training or exposed at the Combines and private workouts.

Right now WCS looks like he's on the up swing with a better chance to realize his full potential. That's what the training has exposed. He's got more talent than he had shown so far, which is a good thing for the Knicks who need a defensive big like WCS. If he has improved his offense he's a possible All Star level talent and worthy of the #4 pick.

i dont want a major project like stein at 4

What makes you think WCS is a "major project"? He's one of the most NBA ready prospects in the draft. He can start day one based on his defense alone. Even if he isn't a great offensive player in isolation, he's gonna score in transition, on alleyoops, put backs, dump offs and slashing to the hole. He's gonna get to the foul line off of his high activity level. He's gonna score on PnR plays as well. So all that and he just needs to mix in a few jump hooks and mid range jumpers. He's not going to need a boatload of touches to have a great impact. There's no need to fear WCS at #4 at all. He's one of the safest picks in the draft.

jbeachboy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's silly to go back to HS to try and assess what kind of player WCS has developed into now. Even his time at Kentucky isn't going to tell you the whole story. Why do you think teams went to Kentucky practices so much? There was more to see from all of their players. If we only went by the college season there'd be no need for further workouts. GM's and scouts know that these kids will get more intense training and diet help after the school year ends. Whatever talent they have is going to be enhanced by the time and training or exposed at the Combines and private workouts.

Right now WCS looks like he's on the up swing with a better chance to realize his full potential. That's what the training has exposed. He's got more talent than he had shown so far, which is a good thing for the Knicks who need a defensive big like WCS. If he has improved his offense he's a possible All Star level talent and worthy of the #4 pick.

i dont want a major project like stein at 4

What makes you think WCS is a "major project"? He's one of the most NBA ready prospects in the draft. He can start day one based on his defense alone. Even if he isn't a great offensive player in isolation, he's gonna score in transition, on alleyoops, put backs, dump offs and slashing to the hole. He's gonna get to the foul line off of his high activity level. He's gonna score on PnR plays as well. So all that and he just needs to mix in a few jump hooks and mid range jumpers. He's not going to need a boatload of touches to have a great impact. There's no need to fear WCS at #4 at all. He's one of the safest picks in the draft.

these were his weaknesses at the college level and now he has to try to fix this at the nba level on the fly, im hoping to see it, he is definitely what phil was describing in that meeting

Like I said. He's making spin moves left and right. He's making post moves and putting up shots with his left and right hand. He's stroking not just from mid range but from 3 as well. This isn't some fluke. Dude is showing that he has more ability than he may have shown in college. That's doesn't mean it's a mirage. It could just be that he finally got great training and focused on it.

Also as I've said he isn't going to be expected to be the primary focus of the offense like OK4. That's not his thing. He can however be a great defender and a capable scorer in the flow of the offense. 12-14 points 10 rebs, 2 blks, 1.5 stls and he's an All Star for sure. If he can hit a couple of Jumpers and Jump Hooks a night he'll achieve that kind of production.

martin wrote:Interesting read

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/3/8338409/willie-cauley-stein-defense-nba-draft-2015

Yeah I read that article before. It's chock full of amazing statistical info.

No big man has ever recorded a quicker time in the lane agility drill, which assesses body control and change of direction ability. And with a 147-inch maximum vertical reach, few bigs even come close to Cauley-Stein's length.

But Cauley-Stein athleticism doesn't only shine in his practice shorts. John Calipari has used his bouncy big man as a defensive stopper by having him harass the opponent's best player, regardless of their position. The 21-year-old has the lateral quickness to defend at least three positions in the NBA, though he can defend all five in college while wearing a blindfold. Big men should not be able to stay with NBA-quality guards like Grant.

"I don't think many (players could've blocked that shot). I barely got it. Anthony Davis could've gotten it," Cauley-Stein said when asked about that block. "The step-back is probably one of the fastest step-backs I've guarded. (Grant's) good at it. He knows how to set you up just to get you just enough space. I'm fortunate I even got my fingertips on it."

It's not out of the question for Cauley-Stein to actually defend all five positions in the NBA. Consider his measurements:

Very few players are as fast and laterally-quick as Cauley-Stein, much less big men. Only seven players have lane agility and sprint scores that combine for fewer seconds than him, and none of them measure over 6'4.

As more NBA teams switch pick and rolls and off-ball screens, many head coaches will feel comfortable allowing Cauley-Stein to defend the perimeter. Most big men get exposed if they're away from the paint. Cauley-Stein won't be, offering his NBA team unique versatility.

We've talked about his lateral quickness, but he can protect the rim too. If a team rotation is missed, he's swift enough to get to the other side of the court and long enough to block or at least deter the play. And he has even matured to the point where he resists the natural urge of a young shot blocker to leave his feet and commit fouls. These defensive attributes will all translate to the next level.