EnySpree wrote:

Nalod wrote:Old school? Remember when Bill Bradley came back from england and started at the 2?
and Sucked? He got minutes. Cazzie Russell a high volume shooter with bad knees and a high all american blue chipper out of college was incensed!!!
Not until Bradley got moved to the 3 and other changes happend did he find his stride and got his HOF career back on track.
What none of us can see is the finished product that is Frank.
About the dumbest thing is the labeling of him "a triangle player" and some how that he is tainted because Phil/gaines drafted him.
If PHil was coaching and drafted him is that a bad thing? You know, the guy that won more rings than any body else, took 25 year old Jordan and turned him from high volume scorer into a god? The guy that took abstinent Kobe and turned him into GOAT.2? If pop drafted Frank he would not play as much BECAUSE THEY ARE A PLAYOFF TEAM. But ya'll be salavating.
If we took Mitchell, maybe we finish 12th, 13, 14th and draft worse? KP still goes down.
ANd maybe in two years Frank is 6-8, 21 years old, and big problem is finding minutes for Bridges because Frank is a lock down force avg. 17-5 and team enroute to playoffs!!!!
Use your imagination.

Frank isn't a finished product... duh.... but using the legend bill Bradley to compare to a nobody like Frank is blasphemous. I don't care the point you are trying to make. You just don't do that and that's the problem going on in here. Use a different example.

Anyway, Frank is young and full of potential. I agree!!!!... but just like Bill Bradley sucked when he got to nba....FRANK SUCKS TOO!!!!! It doesn't mean Frank won't be a good player. He might.... but right now and all year he's been a bum! Cut the bull****

Bill was 24 when this happend BTW. He was a 4 year player an took a year to attend school at oxford. Bradley was a lauded college all american but he was too slow to play guard. He also needed time to get up to speed at the NBA level. That was a big thing. Frank is succeeding on the court in a few areas but not scoring.
My point also is this roster will change year to year and thus its not anything is a lock! Bradley needed time to acclimate. Also the team was growing assets and we needed to make trades to consolidate talent then. Bradley was 25 when he finally started to hit his stride. His HOF credentials have a lot to do with his college career btw. Frank is showing spurts of offensive prowess. That is called inconsistency.

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

Frank is not a PURE PG, but he's going to be a very good Combo Guard IMO. He can run a team or play off the ball. He's pretty much exactly what the scouting report was on him. As I felt then Frank isn't likely to be a Scoring Guard like DSJ, Donovan or even Trey Burke. I think he will adjust as he develops to be more aggressive offensively but still being unselfish.

EnySpree wrote:It's not about recognition. I don't have to explain or go into that with you.

EnySpree wrote:This is about fandom. The brotherhood here. The real basketball talk. Developing friendships... shooting the ****.

EnySpree wrote:I met Martin's parents dude so save that bull****. I been to Montreal with him and 2 other guys to see a Knicks game in real life.

EnySpree wrote:You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to this forum. Met a lot of great guys here. Real fans that get it. Real fans that feel it like I feel it. Only Fishmike is here from that group. It's different here now. This is me standing up for what's real.

When Martin sees this I'm for sure getting banned. I'm cool with it.

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's not about recognition. I don't have to explain or go into that with you.

Then stop talking about your 15 years. Nobody gives a damn.

EnySpree wrote:This is about fandom. The brotherhood here. The real basketball talk. Developing friendships... shooting the ****.

This explains so much

EnySpree wrote:I met Martin's parents dude so save that bull****. I been to Montreal with him and 2 other guys to see a Knicks game in real life.

EnySpree wrote:You don't know what you are talking about when it comes to this forum. Met a lot of great guys here. Real fans that get it. Real fans that feel it like I feel it. Only Fishmike is here from that group. It's different here now. This is me standing up for what's real.

When Martin sees this I'm for sure getting banned. I'm cool with it.

Who appointed you executioner...you don't get to decide who's a real fan. grow up. if they weren't real fans, they wouldn't be seeking out this forum and actively posting on here.

Put some chapstick on those lips before you touch my balls man. Have some respect

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

I doubt he was viewed as a question mark. His floor is defensive PG similar to George hill or Patrick Beverley. His ceiling is an oversized playmaker who is positionless defensively. That profile comes around very scarcely.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

There is a reason most of the mocks didnt have Frank falling past 12... those types of players have tremendous value and change teams. Frank isnt there yet but some teams are willing to wait and try to develop them. The Knicks didnt take a 19 year old to help us win games this year. He's taking his lumps. I dont know how much better he will be next year but a summer of weights and a summer league and a training camp and I am confident you will see a significant jump in everything. There is a reason the guys on the team love the kid

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

because guys who can defend multiple positions, have PG skills and knock down shots from every where are the things that championship teams are made of. Draymond Green and Ben Wallace might have been late picks or not drafted at all, but if teams KNEW what they would become they would be top 5 picks in every draft. That is why you take a risk on guy who is not there yet, undeveloped, but has the potential to be there. That is worth taking a shot on. Those guys change the culture and direction of franchises. Taking a guy with that kind of potential is easy with the 8th pick especially considering what was behind him, Donovan Mitchell aside. Guys like Monk and Dennis Smith are easy to get. Trey Burke just dropped 42/12, he's 25 years old. I dont need to spend the 8th pick on a guy who's only idea of helping the team is trying to score harder and dunk harder.

There is a reason most of the mocks didnt have Frank falling past 12... those types of players have tremendous value and change teams. Frank isnt there yet but some teams are willing to wait and try to develop them. The Knicks didnt take a 19 year old to help us win games this year. He's taking his lumps. I dont know how much better he will be next year but a summer of weights and a summer league and a training camp and I am confident you will see a significant jump in everything. There is a reason the guys on the team love the kid

Frank developing in the firs future isn't in question though. I think every single fan thinks he can grow into a player with keeping.... he's just not that guy as of today.

The team is better with him on the floor already though. Imagine what we can look like when he starts putting up numbers and a lot of you guys feel he's "ready."

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

because guys who can defend multiple positions, have PG skills and knock down shots from every where are the things that championship teams are made of. Draymond Green and Ben Wallace might have been late picks or not drafted at all, but if teams KNEW what they would become they would be top 5 picks in every draft. That is why you take a risk on guy who is not there yet, undeveloped, but has the potential to be there. That is worth taking a shot on. Those guys change the culture and direction of franchises. Taking a guy with that kind of potential is easy with the 8th pick especially considering what was behind him, Donovan Mitchell aside. Guys like Monk and Dennis Smith are easy to get. Trey Burke just dropped 42/12, he's 25 years old. I dont need to spend the 8th pick on a guy who's only idea of helping the team is trying to score harder and dunk harder.

There is a reason most of the mocks didnt have Frank falling past 12... those types of players have tremendous value and change teams. Frank isnt there yet but some teams are willing to wait and try to develop them. The Knicks didnt take a 19 year old to help us win games this year. He's taking his lumps. I dont know how much better he will be next year but a summer of weights and a summer league and a training camp and I am confident you will see a significant jump in everything. There is a reason the guys on the team love the kid

Frank developing in the firs future isn't in question though. I think every single fan thinks he can grow into a player with keeping.... he's just not that guy as of today.

Frank is a gym rat. He did a lot of good things this year to grow on. He showed a lot of holes he needs to grow on. He's got 70+ games at 20 minutes per at 19 years old under his belt. That is a huge amount of video and info for him and the trainers to work with. It would have been great if Frank busted out like Mitchell but it doesnt mean this was a lost season for him or the Knicks. This was painful to watch, but you have hit the gym... those early sessions are ugly. Nothing sexy about a fat dude working out... but before the abs and pecs come you gotta go through those ugly sessions and work it out. This was the perfect year to do so.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

because guys who can defend multiple positions, have PG skills and knock down shots from every where are the things that championship teams are made of. Draymond Green and Ben Wallace might have been late picks or not drafted at all, but if teams KNEW what they would become they would be top 5 picks in every draft. That is why you take a risk on guy who is not there yet, undeveloped, but has the potential to be there. That is worth taking a shot on. Those guys change the culture and direction of franchises. Taking a guy with that kind of potential is easy with the 8th pick especially considering what was behind him, Donovan Mitchell aside. Guys like Monk and Dennis Smith are easy to get. Trey Burke just dropped 42/12, he's 25 years old. I dont need to spend the 8th pick on a guy who's only idea of helping the team is trying to score harder and dunk harder.

There is a reason most of the mocks didnt have Frank falling past 12... those types of players have tremendous value and change teams. Frank isnt there yet but some teams are willing to wait and try to develop them. The Knicks didnt take a 19 year old to help us win games this year. He's taking his lumps. I dont know how much better he will be next year but a summer of weights and a summer league and a training camp and I am confident you will see a significant jump in everything. There is a reason the guys on the team love the kid

Frank developing in the firs future isn't in question though. I think every single fan thinks he can grow into a player with keeping.... he's just not that guy as of today.

are you 100% right. He's not. Some teams shy away from these types. Too long to develop or they arent willing to let the player take their lumps. When you look at that last video I think you see why he needs to be up here and not in the G league. He does a lot right and the things he does wrong at the end of that video shows he just needs more reps.

Frank is a gym rat. He did a lot of good things this year to grow on. He showed a lot of holes he needs to grow on. He's got 70+ games at 20 minutes per at 19 years old under his belt. That is a huge amount of video and info for him and the trainers to work with. It would have been great if Frank busted out like Mitchell but it doesnt mean this was a lost season for him or the Knicks. This was painful to watch, but you have hit the gym... those early sessions are ugly. Nothing sexy about a fat dude working out... but before the abs and pecs come you gotta go through those ugly sessions and work it out. This was the perfect year to do so.

I have no doubt that this is true, and at the same time its a little disconcerting that his offense still has a long way to go, even for a rookie. It could be from playing PG, and wearing too many hats.

As Ive said repeatedly, Frank needs to play against elite NBA talent this summer, work on his offense. I know he's young, but not so young for the Knicks to trade someone they didnt draft if he doesnt progress fast enough for mgmt's liking.