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O.T. War in the middle East...
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colorfl1
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8/5/2006  9:54 PM
Posted by colorfl1:

Human Rights Watch... another impartial obsever...


April 13, 2004
By Anne Bayefsky
When it comes to anti-Semitism and anti-Israel bias, Human Rights Watch still has a lot of explaining to do notwithstanding Executive Director Ken Roth's umbrage at criticism.

Roth, however, volunteers a test of his organization's reliability when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict, namely Human Rights Watch's behavior at the UN's infamous "anti-racism" conference held in Durban, South Africa shortly before 9/11. If the organization's actions were assailable there, he says, it would make "it easy to reject the objectivity of Human Rights Watch reports on Israeli conduct."

It is a test that Human Rights Watch fails hands down. I know because I was there as the representative of the International Association of Jewish Lawyers and Jurists (IAJLJ). Roth himself did not attend.

Just prior to the conference Roth telegraphed his convictions in an interview on US National Public Radio, August 14, 2001, when he said about the pending controversy and the effort to focus attention on Israel: "Clearly Israeli racist practices are an appropriate topic."

So in the lead-up to Durban, Human Rights Watch fanned the flames of racial intolerance notwithstanding that Israel's citizens are one-quarter Arab and enjoy democratic rights they have nowhere else in the Arab world, while neighboring Arab states are Judenrein.

At Durban one role of Human Rights Watch was to exclude the representative of Jewish lawyers and jurists from over 40 countries. Here's what happened:

As a representative of the IAJLJ, I was a member of the caucus of international human rights nongovernmental organizations. Human Rights Watch, along with others such as Amnesty International and the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights (renamed Human Rights First), was also a member of this caucus. Together we had a right to vote on the final NGO document, and hours before the last session gathered together to discuss our position.

The draft included egregious statements equating Zionism with racism, and alleging that Israel is an "apartheid" state guilty of "genocide and ethnic cleansing designed to ensure a Jewish state."

As we arrived at our meeting the chief Durban representative of Human Rights Watch, advocacy director Reed Brody, publicly announced that as a representative of a Jewish group I was unwelcome and could not attend. The views of a Jewish organization, he explained, would not be objective and the decision on how to vote had to be taken in our absence. Not a single one of the other international NGOs objected.

THE HUMAN Rights Watch role at Durban? To inhibit Jewish lawyers and jurists from being fairly represented or defended.

Later that afternoon, my colleague Daniel Lack and I insisted on entering the meeting, but their minds were made up. In the face of the flagrant anti-Semitism all around them the group, including HRW had decided neither to approve nor disapprove of the final declaration, and not to vote.

Instead the international NGOs, including HRW planned to introduce an introductory paragraph that would cast the document as a legitimate collection of the "voices of the victims."

In the evening, as the declaration was considered, a motion was made to delete draft language that had come from the Jewish NGO caucus. The Jewish caucus had proposed including a statement that the demonization of Israel and the targeting of Jews for destruction because of their support for Israel was a form of anti-Semitism.

The vote to delete the Jewish caucus's proposal succeeded and all Jewish organizations from around the world walked out.

What did Human Rights Watch do? The organization said nothing. It made no move to vote. It stayed. Notwithstanding that the Jewish voices had been silenced, two days later at a press conference, HRW (along with Amnesty International, and the Lawyers Committee/Human Rights First) repeated the claim that the "voices of the victims" had legitimately prevailed at the NGO conference. HRW spokesperson Smita Narula said: "The document gives expression to all voices."

What else did Human Rights Watch do in Durban? It misrepresented the final outcome to the world press.

AFTER THE fact, Human Rights Watch got nervous about the possible reaction of its many Jewish funders. So the cover-up began.

On September 6, 2001 Human Rights Watch spokespersons Reed Brody and Joel Motley wrote in the Conference News Daily that the NGO declaration "marks a major success... and recognizes the scourge of anti-Semitism."

They neglected to mention that the declaration had redefined anti-Semitism, changing its meaning from the hatred of Jews to something which included "anti-Arab racism."

Six months later, in February 2002, Human Rights Watch published an update stating: "What really happened at the World Conference Against Racism in Durban? The conference we participated in was completely different from the one covered in American newspapers."

What else did Human Rights Watch do after Durban? It denied what happened there.

As for Roth's claim of the organization's objectivity in reporting on governments throughout the region, one need look no further than its inability despite an annual budget of $22 million to produce a specific report on human rights abuses in a country like Libya, or the relative paucity of attention over the years given to states with appalling human rights records like Saudi Arabia and Syria, as compared to Israel.

So there should be no surprise when HRW wrongly describes Israel as violating international legal norms, for example, by labeling the killing of someone like Sheikh Ahmed Yassin or Ismail Abu Shanab an "assassination" or "liquidation."

International law does not protect all combatants from being targeted before judicial process, or grant them immunity from military operations when they use civilians as human shields.

Having the courage to speak out against the tide of hate directed at Israel and the Jewish people is not one of the strengths of Human Rights Watch.

When will this leading international human rights NGO stop believing it has to earn its stripes by demonizing Israel, or that to stay in business it must avoid criticizing Israel's enemies?

The writer, a professor at York University in Canada, is an international lawyer and a member of the Governing Board of UN Watch, based in Geneva

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colorfl1
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8/5/2006  10:30 PM
What Hezbollah wants

Robert Fulford
National Post

Saturday, August 05, 2006


The warriors of Hezbollah, Party of God, are serious men fighting a serious war, but what inspires them? Among guerrilla gangs, they are top of the class: obedient, clever, efficient, secretive -- and of course, willing to sacrifice themselves and their families. They are not afraid of death, nor do they show pity for neighbours killed when they hide military operations among women and children. Clearly, the Hezbollah warriors are driven by much more than salaries received from Iran.

They hate Jews and, because they fear Sunni Muslims, they badly want to keep power in Shiite hands. But is that enough? Does that explain why they have been preparing for this war for so long? A cleric who interrupted his theological studies to rejoin Hezbollah in June, and who claims to be descended from the prophet Muhammad, says, "We had six years to prepare for this day."

Above all, they are patient. One of them recently told a reporter from Britain's Guardian how their leaders drilled them in serenity: "During our training we spend days in empty buildings without talking to anyone or doing anything. They tell me go and sit in that building, and I go and sit there and wait." In every mission, they follow detailed orders without question. When they send off a rocket, they expect an Israeli response within 15 minutes, so immediately their team breaks up, everyone running to an assigned hiding place. Later they re-form elsewhere, for their next launch.

Behind all this is a religious passion that's so powerful few of us can begin to grasp it. More than two decades ago, the Ayatollah Khomeini, by licensing Hezbollah as a franchise of Iran, focused the minds of a few thousand young men on the ideal of Islamic world hegemony. Like Christianity, Islam imagines itself a universal religion, which all humans will eventually embrace. Much of Christianity has abandoned that dream, but in Islam it remains vividly alive, notably among terrorist factions like Hezbollah.

Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, has said several times that he knows Israel's weak point: its belief in preserving human life. Israel has a nuclear weapon and the region's strongest air force, he says, but "in truth, it is weaker than a spider web." He believes reverence for life, combined with a hedonistic society, make it incapable of sustained war. He has large ambitions. Muhammad Al-Huni, an eminent Libyan intellectual who lives in Italy, recently wrote that Nasrallah now assumes that he "enjoys the stature of the holy men and prophets."

U.S.-based Islam expert Daniel Pipes says that radical Islam is the problem, moderate Islam the solution. But possibly the radicals are the only Muslims with a passion to shape the future. By definition, moderates take a relaxed view of religion. However fervent their beliefs, they also value families, friends, human love, and worldly satisfactions. They want peace and won't eagerly kill for Allah. If they are like most people of moderate views, they can be frightened into silence.

But Hezbollah wants an Islamic world and believes such a world to be worth killing and dying for. Recently, that way of organizing society has crept into another corner of the globe. After a 29-year separatist struggle, the Indonesian province of Aceh won the right to adopt Shariah criminal law, becoming the first region of that country (a theoretically secular state) with that privilege. The radicals have beaten the moderates, and now the moderates face a dreadful future.

In Aceh, roaming Taliban-like squads of vice police in brown uniforms now tour the streets, looking for men drinking alcohol or women consorting with men other than their husbands. These people are then caned outside mosques, watched by crowds and TV cameras. Women claim they are more often the objects of vice-squad raids than men. Ordinary citizens sometimes grab couples sitting in parked cars and hand them over to the vice police. The same rules govern foreigners. An Italian aid worker, accused of having a little marijuana and being seen alone with a woman (his translator) is imprisoned, faced with caning. The vice police are turning into a steadily expanding bureaucracy -- and other provinces are now talking about following Aceh's example. So now a great religion, which once inspired enviable poetry, philosophy and architecture, has reduced itself to promoting institutionalized thuggery.

That's the world Hezbollah desires. It seems clear that the crisis in the Middle East is a struggle for a decent civilization. Given that truth, anyone arguing that the West should remain neutral looks like either a fool or a scoundrel.
colorfl1
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8/5/2006  10:36 PM
Hezbollah has become the greatest grievance of the world's angriest region

Conrad Black
National Post

Saturday, August 05, 2006

More Columns By This Writer
:: Amidst the rubble, some good news
:: Reviving the Commonwealth
Israel's campaign against Hezbollah cannot succeed unless ground forces are used in sizable numbers, which will ensure significant Israeli casualties. Any Israeli casualties must be multiplied by five to be proportionate to Canada's population, and by 50 to be comparable to that of the United States. Destroying Hezbollah could require a thousand Israeli casualties, equivalent to 5,000 Canadians, or 50,000 Americans. It is a terrible thought. But it may be necessary, and Israel will be acting for all civilized and even semi-respectable countries, and any international organizations that have any hope of being resuscitated to useful life.

Israel's campaign against Hezbollah will not be a success unless Hezbollah is absolutely destroyed militarily. A rebuff, a box on the ear justifying The New York Times' Tom Friedman to proclaim, as he did a few days ago, "Point made," and urge peace, will not do. This is a fight to the death, not a skirmish.

Hezbollah's military (but not social) apparatus is one of the few organizations of modern history of which it must be said that it deserves extermination. The world's interest requires it. Unlike the Palestinians, it has no nation-building claim, no indigenous legitimacy, no argument of political under-representation, and no real territorial grievance. Indeed, Hezbollah itself has become the greatest grievance of the world's angriest region.

Hezbollah does not seek a state; it seeks to usurp the state of Lebanon and destroy the state of Israel. It is an interloper that has flourished as ****roaches do without insecticide, since Israel withdrew from the dark and damp south of Lebanon and the UN passed another of its flatulent resolutions calling for Hezbollah's disarmament, with no more threat of enforcement behind it than Idi Amin's promises of revenge on Israel for the Entebbe Raid of 1976.

Hezbollah has made itself the instrument of Iran's effort to destroy Israel, sabotage any progress for the Palestinians, abort a new Lebanon, overthrow moderate Arab leaders such as the King of Jordan and even Egypt's less palatable Mubarak regime, struggling determinedly to become a dynasty, and the House of Saud, which no sane person would describe as particularly benign.

Hezbollah's assault on Israel, if it succeeds, will deliver the leadership of militant Islam to Iran, a country developing nuclear weapons and led by a man who claims to seek an early death for himself and his people in virtuous conflagration, having first destroyed Israel, which he says has lived off the myth that the Jews of Europe suffered any significant inconvenience at the hands of the Nazis and their collaborators in the 1940s.

Hezbollah will be successful if it suffers anything less than destruction of its military capacity. Israel would have no credible deterrent left if it cannot deal with 5,000 Hezbollah guerrillas. Israel without ground deterrence will be a magnet to teeming swarms of Islamic terrorists, sweeping away the relatively restrained, neighbouring Muslim governments as they approach.

Hezbollah brings down artillery fire on civilians and unarmed "peacekeepers." Israel has dropped leaflets and shown exemplary restraint in its rules of engagement. Israel is not the threat to Lebanon. Hezbollah is. Israel is Lebanon's greatest guarantor. The talk of "asymmetry" and "disproportionate casualties" is nonsense.

The world is now divided over Lebanon among five groups: the righteous, if dilatory wielders of the Sword of Israel; the United States, U.K., Canada and a few others, holding the door open for Israel to do what civilization and justice, in all faiths and none, require; the majority of the EU and Muslim and other countries shuffling weight from one foot to another, but hoping Israel does the necessary; nostalgic replicators of the compulsory cheerfulness of the Coue System, like the EU's Xavier Solana, who would look upon the end of the world as an exciting consciousness-raising opportunity; and the unmitigated evil of Hezbollah and its sponsors.

To adapt Cato the Elder, speaking of Carthage: Delendum est Hezbollah!
colorfl1
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8/5/2006  10:39 PM
Hezbollah's deadly hold on heartland
Loved by many, accused by others of sacrificing civilians

Sonia Verma
National Post

Saturday, August 05, 2006

TYRE, Lebanon - When Dr. Fouad Fatah emerged bleary-eyed from the ruins of his hospital during a pause in Israeli air strikes last week, it felt like the first time in forever.

He counted himself as the last living soul in the five-room clinic, the only hospital serving this devastated swath of Lebanon's south. His surviving patients had already been evacuated.

The surgeon led a group of journalists over what remained: mangled debris, shredded walls and a roof punched through by an Israeli shell.

"Look what they did to this place," Dr. Fatah said, shaking his head. "Why in the world would the Israelis target a hospital?"

The probable answer was found a few hours later in a field nearby. Hidden in the tall grass were the burned remnants of a rocket-launcher.

Confronted with the evidence, Dr. Fatah admitted his hospital could have been used as a site from which to fire rockets into Israel.

"What choice to we have? We need to fight back from somewhere," he said, tapping his foot on the ground.

"This is Hezbollah's heartland."

The Shiites of southern Lebanon have seen Hezbollah as their protectors ever since the group first emerged as an Iranian-backed militia during the Lebanese civil war.

When Israeli forces withdrew from south Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah claimed victory.

Since then it has launched a steady stream of rockets across the border into Israel, causing few casualties but keeping the Israelis in a state of perpetual wariness.

Financed, armed and trained by Iran and supported by Syria, Hezbollah was treated by the Lebanese government as a legitimate, arm's-length force patrolling its southern border. Over the years, its social arm has come to provide social services -- schools, medical clinics and charities.

But the United States, Canada and Israel consider Hezbollah a powerful terrorist organization, in part because it launches violent attacks against civilians. Its armed wing is responsible for countless terror attacks.

Military experts say that over the past five years, Hezbollah fighters have steadily stockpiled weapons funnelled from Iran and Syria. They buried rockets in tunnels, houses and, according to Israeli officials, in hospitals.

U.S. military experts believe Hezbollah has rockets ranging in number from several thousand to tens of thousands.

"We've been preparing ourselves for this fight for the last five years. We can fight this for much longer," said Abu Ismail, a local Hezbollah leader near the village of Bint Jbeil who uses a nom de guerre, like most of his fellow fighters.

Residents of the cluster of villages closest to the Israeli border, Hezbollah's most loyal supporters, helped stow the weapons away.

But as the conflict continues, there is an undercurrent of anger among some residents.

"Hezbollah are using [us] as human shields," said Rima Khouri, gesturing overhead as Israeli warplanes sliced through the sky.

The Lebanese Christian woman fled from her village of Ain Abel to one of the swelling refugee shelters in the city of Tyre.

She was one of few people to speak freely about her anger at Hezbollah and their strategy of firing rockets into Israel from civilian areas.

"Their protection comes with a heavy price. We want nothing to do with them," she said.

Nasser Kareem shared her sentiments.

During a pitched battle in his village of Bint Jbeil last Thursday, the 48-year-old dentist watched from his kitchen window as Hezbollah fighters dragged a rocket launcher across the torn street in front of his house.

A few minutes later, he heard four successive blasts. Kareem barely managed to cover his four-year-old son's ears before the rockets were fired. His own ears are still ringing.

"Five minutes after they fired the rockets, the Israelis started bombing," he recalled from the safety of a shelter in Beirut.

"They are making us magnets for the Israelis," he said.

As war rages on between Israel and Hezbollah, civilian deaths are adding up on both sides of the border.

The conflict has taken its heaviest toll in Lebanon, where the line separating a civilian from a fighter is murky, and support for Hezbollah runs deeper than ever.

For its part, Israel says its military is simply locking on targets from where rockets are launched.

Driving through the emptied towns of south Lebanon, it's a charge that's nearly impossible to prove or disprove.

Most villagers bristle at the suggestion that Israel has been targeting anybody but civilians.

Anger boiled over last week when a shelter in Qana was hit, killing 29 people, most of them children.

"What have they done to deserve this? Is this a military target?" wept Mohamad Chaloub, clutching the lifeless body of his daughter.

Local officials said there were no weapons or rockets in the house where the children slept in Qana, no warning before the bomb fell.

But the next day, the same Lebanese Red Cross team that dug out the children's bodies stumbled across the shreds of more rocket launchers in a village nearby.

One was found deep inside a fruit orchard. Another was found wedged between two houses.

In this part of Lebanon, Hezbollah still rules the streets.

Armed with satellite phones, but no visible weapons, they patrol the roads on mopeds.

Stop in any town to ask for directions and the answer will likely come from Hezbollah, waving any cameras away with an angry fist.

Military experts say Hezbollah cut back on its full-time fighters in recent years, estimating there are now anywhere from 300 to 1,200 full-time fighters and several thousand reserves.

Though many would argue Hezbollah caused the current crisis -- some would say it intentionally precipitated it -- it seems clear the terrorist organization's ranks are swelling with each Israeli bomb that drops.

In a rare interview with Hezbollah fighters near the village of Srifa last week, a local leader took a reporter behind a stretch of barbed wire, inside an orange grove where a training camp for new recruits was underway.

Almost all of the camouflaged men racing along an obstacle course of flat tires and twisted metal said they had a relative buried under the rubble.

One man dressed in a green shirt and pressed pants said he still hadn't recovered the bodies of his eight brothers, buried beneath the wreckage of his family home.

Another fighter -- a young man of 16 years -- had pulled himself from under a car that had flipped over from the force of a bomb blast. He said his father died next to him.

"Show me a man who has lost his mother, his father, his sister, his brother, his child and I will show you Hezbollah," he said.
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8/5/2006  10:45 PM
Hezbollah equipped like the `Syrian or Iranian army'
Israel's enemy is no ragtag militia

Anti-tank missiles proving deadly
Aug. 5, 2006. 01:00 AM
BENJAMIN HARVEY
ASSOCIATED PRESS

JERUSALEM—Hezbollah's sophisticated anti-tank missiles are perhaps its deadliest weapon in the fighting in Lebanon, with their ability to pierce Israel's most advanced tanks.
Experts say this is further evidence that Israel is facing a well-equipped army in this war, not a ragtag militia.
Hezbollah has fired Russian-made Metis-M anti-tank missiles and owns European-made Milan missiles, the army confirmed yesterday.
In the last two days alone, these missiles have killed seven soldiers and damaged three Israeli-made Merkava tanks, vaunted as symbols of Israel's might, the army said. Israeli media say most of the 44 soldiers killed in four weeks of fighting were hit by anti-tank missiles.
"They (Hezbollah guerrillas) have some of the most advanced anti-tank missiles in the world," said Yossi Kuperwasser, a senior military intelligence officer who retired earlier this summer.
"This is not a militia, it's an infantry brigade with all the support units," Kuperwasser said.
Israel contends Hezbollah gets almost all of its weaponry from Syria and by extension Iran, including its anti-tank missiles.
That's why cutting off the supply chain is essential and why fighting Hezbollah after it has spent six years building up its arsenal is proving so painful to Israel, officials say.
"To the best of my understanding, they (Hezbollah) are as well-equipped as any standing unit in the Syrian or Iranian armies," said Eran Lerman, a retired army colonel and now director of the Israel/Middle East office of the American Jewish Committee. "This is not a rat-pack guerrilla, this is an organized militia."
Besides the anti-tank missiles, Hezbollah is also known to have a powerful rocket-propelled grenade known as the RPG29. These weapons are also smuggled through Syria, an Israeli security official said, and were used by Palestinian militants in Gaza to damage tanks.
Yesterday, Jane's Defence Weekly, a defence industry magazine, reported that Hezbollah asked Iran for "a constant supply of weapons" to support its operations against Israel.
It cited Western diplomats as saying Iranian officials promised Hezbollah a steady supply of weapons "for the next stage of the confrontation."
Top Israeli intelligence officials say they have seen Iranian Revolutionary Guard soldiers on the ground with Hezbollah troops. They say that permission to fire Hezbollah's longer-range missiles would likely require Iranian go-ahead.
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8/5/2006  10:49 PM
Saudi religious leader blasts Hizbullah

Aug. 5, 2006
Associated Press


A top Saudi Sunni cleric, whose ideas inspired Osama bin Laden, issued a religious edict Saturday disavowing the Shi'ite guerrilla group Hizbullah, evidence that a rift remained among Muslims over the fighting in Lebanon.

Hizbullah, which translates as "the party of God," is actually "the party of the devil," said Sheik Safar al-Hawali, whose radical views made the al-Qaida leader one of his followers in the past.

"Don't pray for Hizbullah," he said in the fatwa posted on his Web site.

The edict, which reflects the historical stand of strict Wahhabi doctrine viewing Shi'ite Muslims as heretics, follows a similar fatwa from another popular Saudi cleric Sheik Abdullah bin Jibreen two weeks into the conflict with Israel.

"It is not acceptable to support this rejectionist party (Hizbullah), and one should not fall under its command, or pray for its victory," bin Jibreen said at the time. That fatwa set off a maelstrom across the Arab world, with other leaders and people at the grass roots level imploring Muslims to put aside differences to support the fight against Israel.

There have been daily demonstrations in support of Hizbullah around the region, including in predominantly Sunni and generally pro-western countries like Jordan.

Even the Saudi government, which initially condemned Hizbullah for sparking the fighting by kidnapping two Israeli soldiers in "uncalculated adventures," backed down and said it warned the United States the region would be headed toward war unless Washington halted the Israeli attacks.

Last week, al-Qaida deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri issued a videotape that urged all Muslims everywhere to rise up in holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza.

Mohammed Habib, deputy leader of Egypt's largest Islamic Sunni group, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, immediately rejected al-Hawali's new religious edict, saying Hizbullah is defending "the whole Islamic nation."

Al-Hawali is receiving medical treatment in Jeddah and could not be reached for comment.

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 08-05-2006 10:51 PM]
simrud
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8/6/2006  12:16 AM
Look, color, I know you mean well, but I think you are def. overreacting. The military deterrent has already been reestablished. Every country in the region knows that if its going to support such a group on its territory, its going to be laid to waste. Hizbollah promised its people to defend them. It has failed completley.

The entrire doctrine of Hizbollah was based on preemptive defesne, the idea that Israel was not going to attack its people, the Shia muslims, because Hizbollah was going to bring destruction to Israeli civilians. But the nation of Israel has proved that it can, and will sustain those dangers and loses to civilians, if that is what it takes to punish the enemy.

The fact that despite thouands of rockets hittin northen Israel, the support for the war is at 100%, completley discredits the Hizbollah doctrine. The south of Lebanon is in ruins, the Shia muslim communitites are all but gone. They will have to rebuild from scracth. Thats after Nassrallah promised them he can protect them from Israel.

Right now the Shia Muslims can claim whatever victory they plese, but in a few days after the war is over, they will realize, that their entire lifes are destroyed. They will question, was launhing rockets at Israeli cities, which will rebuild much faster and easier, and which cost Israel much less, worse having their lifes completley destroyed?

Western experts simply don't get it when it comes to the middle east. In russian there is a saying, which I will try to translate, basically it says the East is a delicate situation. Nasarllah will boast that he won just by being alive, but when his people are ruined, do you really think they will accept a leader who lead them to their destruction? Hence the deterrent is very much there and well.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  1:04 AM
Posted by simrud:

Look, color, I know you mean well, but I think you are def. overreacting. The military deterrent has already been reestablished. Every country in the region knows that if its going to support such a group on its territory, its going to be laid to waste. Hizbollah promised its people to defend them. It has failed completley.

The entire doctrine of Hizbollah was based on preemptive defesne, the idea that Israel was not going to attack its people, the Shia muslims, because Hizbollah was going to bring destruction to Israeli civilians. But the nation of Israel has proved that it can, and will sustain those dangers and loses to civilians, if that is what it takes to punish the enemy.

The fact that despite thouands of rockets hittin northen Israel, the support for the war is at 100%, completley discredits the Hizbollah doctrine. The south of Lebanon is in ruins, the Shia muslim communitites are all but gone. They will have to rebuild from scracth. Thats after Nassrallah promised them he can protect them from Israel.

Right now the Shia Muslims can claim whatever victory they plese, but in a few days after the war is over, they will realize, that their entire lifes are destroyed. They will question, was launhing rockets at Israeli cities, which will rebuild much faster and easier, and which cost Israel much less, worse having their lifes completley destroyed?

Western experts simply don't get it when it comes to the middle east. In russian there is a saying, which I will try to translate, basically it says the East is a delicate situation. Nasarllah will boast that he won just by being alive, but when his people are ruined, do you really think they will accept a leader who lead them to their destruction? Hence the deterrent is very much there and well.

Hezbollah is a Jihaadist organization... they are a proxy of Iran, and Iran is just getting warmed up...
Israel has sent a message that you cannot *****foot with them anymore...
but Israel knows that the US adminstrations change and that they have a unique oppertunity here to try and do real damage to Hezzbolah so that the Lebonese armies can eventually control their own territory w/o overt Syrian influence and hostile terrorists right at their border...
Israel has no conflict with Egypt or Jordon, because these countries recognized Israel, let them be and got their land...
Lebonon got their land BUT this instead spurred on Jihaadist throughout the region to fight and not comprimise...

this is really about crippling their immediate ability to threaten Israel then it is about anything else... the PM of Israel has Dovish policies... he does not have an appitite for this sort of carnage long term... this is because of Syrian and Iranian influence and wont be solved w/o unfortunately - unfortunately - unfortunately- an eventual war againt Syria and Iran.

They are going to try to do as much damage to Hezzbollah as they can before the international community declares a cease-fire that involves weakening Syria's influence in Lebanon...
Mainstream Israeli society does not have YOUR disturbing comfort / appitite for carnage; they are truly torn and confused over war and the unfortunate harm it brings to civilians...
Most Israelis just want peace and security...


[Edited by - colorfl1 on 08-06-2006 01:13 AM]
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  4:05 AM
sraeli war deaths go largely unnoticed

Hours after mother and two daughters are killed in Hizbullah rocket attack, media outlets around world fail to report deaths; meanwhile, British press continues anti-Israel tirade
Yaakov Lappin

Media bias? Hours after 60-year-old Fadia Jumaa and her two daughters, Samira, 31, and Sultana, 33, were killed by a Hizbullah rocket attack on their home in the Israeli-Bedouin village of Arab al-Aramshe, the international media has so far largely ignored their deaths.

Reuters was alone among non-Israeli media outlets to report the deaths, according to a Google news search, a number of hours after the first reports of the attack surfaced.

The lack of coverage of the Israeli civilian war casualties stands in marked contrast to the swift response by many sections of the international media to reported Lebanese casualties.

Meanwhile, the British press, which has produced some of the most venomous anti-Israel coverage during the war, has continued its tirade against Israel.

Inaccuracies

An article in the London-based Guardian, entitled "Militants merge with mainstream ," argues that Hizbullah has gained widespread, cross-religious support in the Arab world, and uses terms such as "the Qana massacre" to explain the apparent newfound unity.

The article argues that Sunnis and Shiites have come together in their backing of Hizbullah: "Whatever qualms Arabs once had about Hizbullah they have since been dissipated by Israel's attacks, the hundreds of deaths, the sight of up to a quarter of the Lebanese population fleeing their homes, and especially the bombing of UN observers and the massacre at Qana. The Shiite organisation and its leader, Hassan Nasrallah, have become symbols of resistance even in such unlikely places as the Gulf countries where Sunnis and Shiites have been spotted waving the yellow-and-green flag."

The article was co-written by Issandr el-Amrani, a freelance journalist in Egypt who referred to Hizbullah as " Lebanese resistance fighters " on his personal blog and who describes reports of Hizbullah members operating out of civilian areas as "Israeli lies."

The article's authors failed, however, to note that an influential Saudi Sunni cleric, Sheikh Safar al-Hawali, has issued an anti-Hizbullah fatwa declaring that "Hizbullah is not the 'Party of God' but the 'Party of Satan.'"

An Associated Press report, which undermines the Guardian's claims, says that "Al-Hawali's words are an addition to a previous fatwa issued two weeks ago in Saudi Arabia by the leader of the Wahhabi movement, Sheikh Abdullah bin Jabrin, which declared that it is illegal to support, join, or even pray for Hizbullah."

BBC correspondent reports his own views

Meanwhile, an article has appeared on the BBC website in which a reporter for the British broadcaster, Hugh Sykes, relays a conversation he has with Lebanese residents.

The article is remarkable as it contains the views of a BBC journalist being given to Lebanese locals, rather than the other way around.

In the piece, written in first person narrative, Sykes tells people in Lebanon that there would be "no point" for Israel to strike Hizbullah targets in Lebanon: "'People keep asking me… ' Beirut - will they bomb Beirut again?' 'What would be the point?" I reply.'"

The BBC journalist also attempts to second guess where Israeli strikes hit.

"Four massive thumps one night, and six the next, as Israeli bombs or shells slammed into the ground a few kilometres away. Or into the children's homes," Sykes wrote.
earthmansurfer
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8/6/2006  4:23 AM
Has it crossed anybody's mind that this was all planned? It seems Israel was created as a state by a third part and put smack dab in the middle east with a future confilict in mind. They are occupying land given to them by a third party who wanted this future conflict. It is a matter of time before the **** hits the fan and ends up in destruction. None of the surrounding countries wants them there. Not that that is reason enough to leave, but I as an American don't feel like giving them billions a year and weapons to destroy their neighbors. This conflict seems like a basic premise to Bush's war on terror and I don't want no part of it. If Israel wants to fight then they should do it with thier own money, weapons, etc. and not pull the rest of us into thier destruction. I have nothing against either party, I just see this as being most easily solved by giving back the land that Israel was (for lack of a better word) illegally given (by the British I believe) and start over some where else. If Germany and Poland are thier primary persecutors, well then, why isn't the land coming from thier????
Earthmansurfer
ps - Briggs, you said if we don't like the US we can leave. If you are so blind as to not see your rights are being taken away for this FAKE war on terror and you have the nerve to tell people to leave, I suggest you stop going to CIA.com for your news... oops, I mean CNN.com. Look a bit closer in 911 and the governments role in it for your answer... This is a false flag operation with this in mind to pit us against one another and live in fear.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  4:45 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Has it crossed anybody's mind that this was all planned? It seems Israel was created as a state by a third part and put smack dab in the middle east with a future confilict in mind. They are occupying land given to them by a third party who wanted this future conflict. It is a matter of time before the **** hits the fan and ends up in destruction. None of the surrounding countries wants them there. Not that that is reason enough to leave, but I as an American don't feel like giving them billions a year and weapons to destroy their neighbors. This conflict seems like a basic premise to Bush's war on terror and I don't want no part of it. If Israel wants to fight then they should do it with thier own money, weapons, etc. and not pull the rest of us into thier destruction. I have nothing against either party, I just see this as being most easily solved by giving back the land that Israel was (for lack of a better word) illegally given (by the British I believe) and start over some where else. If Germany and Poland are thier primary persecutors, well then, why isn't the land coming from thier????
Earthmansurfer
ps - Briggs, you said if we don't like the US we can leave. If you are so blind as to not see your rights are being taken away for this FAKE war on terror and you have the nerve to tell people to leave, I suggest you stop going to CIA.com for your news... oops, I mean CNN.com. Look a bit closer in 911 and the governments role in it for your answer... This is a false flag operation with this in mind to pit us against one another and live in fear.

I am sure that makes a lot of sense to you... except for the very diabolical conspiracy element... and the fact that you grant absolutely no legitamacy for the Jewish nation to return to their rightful homeland!('');

In that light your sentiments, though popular with fringe leftists; removes from the entire equation a major fact...
that the Jewish nation was forcefully removed from this same land and scanttered accross the globe by the Assyrians and Romans...

Even after these exiles... there has always been a Jewish presance in that land for the past thousand years...

The Jewish nation has for well over a millenia celebrated every one of lifes milestones with the vow to never forget Jeruselem and the very real yearning to return to their natural homeland.

This wasn't just a strip of land that they just handed to the Jews to fit some absurd plot...

this was a land that the Jews have been struggling to return to since they were enslaved and sent into the diaspora well over a millenia ago... there is a lot of history to this very complex conflict... and a simplistic and ignorant take is not really going to be well recieved by anyone who is familiar with the intricate history involved with this conflict...
firefly
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8/6/2006  6:16 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:

simrud: Check out the interview some dude posted on this link. I know this Rabbi is in the minority but wtf is he thinking? I hate people that completely disregard history and speak out of their ass. http://www.freespeechwar.com/smf/index.php?topic=2825.0

Silver, this guy Weiss is no Rabbi. Nor is he a Hassidic sect. He belonds to a tiny tiny minority called the Neturei Karta. They are scum of the earth. He and his fellow sickening scumbags have been ostracised from every single Jewish community on earth for spewing their ignorant, hateful filth. They are seen by 99.9% of the Jews in the world as far worse and more harmful then Hezbollah itself.

To call them Rabbis, is to besmirch the name.

The Hassidim are not any freinds of mine. I hate them almost as much as I hate the Muslims fundamentalists. They are a dirty, fanatitcal sect, with dirty tactics. They target Jewish kids in foreign countries to spread their propoganda. They set up "free" summer camps, where they try to brainwash you into beleiving their crap. They do not represent anybody but their own sect, a dirty, backwards, twofaced fundamentalist disgrace.

Simrud, I take great exception to what you said about Hassidim. My grandparents are Hassidim, and by definition so am I. Your view of them is sad, untrue and horribly libelous. Just because a group of people dresses differently to you does not make them bad. Their "crap" as you say is the exact same upbringing I recieved, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that what you say regarding brainwashing and setting up free camp to spread their fundamentalist notions is absolutely untrue. This is not really the topic on hand, but if your going to slander a group of people try and make sure what you say is the truth. What you just wrote about Hassidim is 110% falsehood. I wish I could take you to meet some "dirty, two-faced fundamentalist" hassidim. You would see the gentlest people on earth, who dress differently and act differently, because they hold themselves to account before god far more then you and I do. There will always be exceptions, but for you to slander every Hassid on the planet in such a horrible, blatantly untrue fashion upsets me greatly.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  9:34 AM
Reuters admits altering Beirut photo

Reuters withdraws photograph of Beirut after Air Force attack after US blogs, photographers point out 'blatant evidence of manipulation'
Yaakov Lappin

A Reuters photograph of smoke rising from buildings in Beirut has been withdrawn after coming under attack by American web logs. The blogs accused Reuters of distorting the photograph to include more smoke and damage.

The photograph showed two very heavy plumes of black smoke billowing from buildings in Beirut after an Air Force attack on the Lebanese capital. Reuters has since withdrawn the photograph from its website, along a message admitting that the image was distorted, and an apology to editors.

In the message, Reuters said that "photo editing software was improperly used on this image. A corrected version will immediately follow this advisory. We are sorry for any inconvience."

Reuters' head of PR Moira Whittle said in response: "Reuters has suspended a photographer until investigations are completed into changes made to a photograph showing smoke billowing from buildings following an air strike on Beirut. Reuters takes such matters extremely seriously as it is strictly against company editorial policy to alter pictures."

"As soon as the allegation came to light, the photograph, filed on Saturday 5 August, was removed from the file and a replacement, showing the same scene, was sent. The explanation for the removal was the improper use of photo-editing software," she added.

Earlier, Charles Johnson, of the Little Green Footballs blog , which has exposed a previous attempt at fraud by a major American news corporation, wrote : "This Reuters photograph shows blatant evidence of manipulation. Notice the repeating patterns in the smoke; this is almost certainly caused by using the Photoshop “clone” tool to add more smoke to the image."

Johnson added: "Smoke simply does not contain repeating symmetrical patterns like this, and you can see the repetition in both plumes of smoke. There’s really no question about it."

A series of close ups are then posted on the blog, showing that "it’s not only the plumes of smoke that were 'enhanced.' There are also cloned buildings." The close ups do appear to show exact replicas of buildings appearing next to one another in the photograph.

The Sports Shooter web forum , used by professional photographers, also examined the photo, with many users concluding that the image has been doctored.
Threat From Reuters
Reuters employee issues 'Zionist pig' death threat / Yaakov Lappin
Worker suspended after telling American blogger: 'I look forward to day when you pigs get your throats cut'
Full Story

'Looks so obviously doctored'

"I'll second the cloned smoke...but it looks so obvious that I don't know how the photographer could have gotten away with it," wrote one user.

After further research, Johnson posted a photograph he says is the original image taken before distortions were made, showing much lighter smoke rising.

Other blogs have also analyzed the photographs, and reached similar conclusions, such as Left & Right , which states: "The photo has been doctored, quite badly."

The author of the Ace of Spades blog wrote: "Even I can see the very suspicious "clonings" of picture elements here. And I'm an idiot."


The Hot Air blog also looked at the photo, describing the image as "the worst Photoshop I have ever seen."
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  9:36 AM
Reuters employee issues 'Zionist pig' death threat

Worker suspended after telling American blogger: 'I look forward to day when you pigs get your throats cut'
Yaakov Lappin

A Reuters employee has been suspended after sending a death threat to an American blogger.

The message, sent from a Reuters internet account, read: "I look forward to the day when you pigs get your throats cut."

It was sent to Charles Johnson, owner of the Little Green Footballs (LGF) weblog, a popular site which often backs Israel and highlights jihadist terrorist activities.

In the threat, the Reuters staff member, who has not been named, left his email address as "zionistpig" at hotmail.com.

Reporting the message to his readers, Johnson wrote on his website: "This particular death threat is a bit different from the run of the mill hate mail we get around here, because an IP lookup on the sender reveals that he/she/it was using an account at none other than Reuters News."

Speaking to Ynetnews, Johnson said: "I was surprised to receive a threat from a Reuters IP, but only because it was so careless of this person to use a traceable work account to do it."

He added: "I think it's more than fair to say that Reuters has a big problem."

'Employee suspended'

After bringing the threat to the attention of Reuters, Johnson was told by the news organization's Global Head of Communications, Ed Williams: "I can confirm that an employee has been suspended pending further investigation. The individual was not an employee of Reuters' news division."

In an additional twist, Johnson traced the movements of the sender of the threat, and found direct parallels between the internet locations of the sender and Inayat Bunglawala, Media Secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain.

Bunglawala, who contirbuted an editorial to the Guardian website, has attracted negative attention in the past after making anti-Semitic outbursts, and has declared that the British media was "Zionist-controlled."

In the comment section of the Guardian, underneath his own editorial, Bunglawala denied sending the threat, blaming "Zionists" instead.

"That was not me! Methinks some Zionists are up to mischief," he wrote.

"There is strong circumstantial evidence connecting Bunglawala to the threat, but there is no way for me to verify this for certain. Only a Reuters network administrator would have access to the necessary records," Johnson said.
Silverfuel
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8/6/2006  10:11 AM
Posted by firefly:

He belonds to a tiny tiny minority called the Neturei Karta. They are scum of the earth.
Oh wow! I had never heard of these guys. What a pain in the ass! People that want to suffer for no reason.

here is the link to the Reuters doctored picture: http://www.judeoscope.ca/breve.php3?id_breve=2227
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
earthmansurfer
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8/6/2006  10:39 AM
You are talking about a loooong time ago. I also realize that America was once the home of the American Indians but it's just not possible to reverse that. We are talking about WWII. The Jewish people who now live in Israel are supposedly only 10% or so Jewish by blood, the rest are converts. So what you are saying about thousands of years ago held some credence... thousands of years ago.
Understanding this is a sensitive topic I want to stress I am in no way against either party outright. IT's just that finding a middle ground seems non existent...

What do we do to stop WWIII???

Earthman
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Has it crossed anybody's mind that this was all planned? It seems Israel was created as a state by a third part and put smack dab in the middle east with a future confilict in mind. They are occupying land given to them by a third party who wanted this future conflict. It is a matter of time before the **** hits the fan and ends up in destruction. None of the surrounding countries wants them there. Not that that is reason enough to leave, but I as an American don't feel like giving them billions a year and weapons to destroy their neighbors. This conflict seems like a basic premise to Bush's war on terror and I don't want no part of it. If Israel wants to fight then they should do it with thier own money, weapons, etc. and not pull the rest of us into thier destruction. I have nothing against either party, I just see this as being most easily solved by giving back the land that Israel was (for lack of a better word) illegally given (by the British I believe) and start over some where else. If Germany and Poland are thier primary persecutors, well then, why isn't the land coming from thier????
Earthmansurfer
ps - Briggs, you said if we don't like the US we can leave. If you are so blind as to not see your rights are being taken away for this FAKE war on terror and you have the nerve to tell people to leave, I suggest you stop going to CIA.com for your news... oops, I mean CNN.com. Look a bit closer in 911 and the governments role in it for your answer... This is a false flag operation with this in mind to pit us against one another and live in fear.

I am sure that makes a lot of sense to you... except for the very diabolical conspiracy element... and the fact that you grant absolutely no legitamacy for the Jewish nation to return to their rightful homeland!('');

In that light your sentiments, though popular with fringe leftists; removes from the entire equation a major fact...
that the Jewish nation was forcefully removed from this same land and scanttered accross the globe by the Assyrians and Romans...

Even after these exiles... there has always been a Jewish presance in that land for the past thousand years...

The Jewish nation has for well over a millenia celebrated every one of lifes milestones with the vow to never forget Jeruselem and the very real yearning to return to their natural homeland.

This wasn't just a strip of land that they just handed to the Jews to fit some absurd plot...

this was a land that the Jews have been struggling to return to since they were enslaved and sent into the diaspora well over a millenia ago... there is a lot of history to this very complex conflict... and a simplistic and ignorant take is not really going to be well recieved by anyone who is familiar with the intricate history involved with this conflict...

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  11:26 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

You are talking about a loooong time ago. I also realize that America was once the home of the American Indians but it's just not possible to reverse that. We are talking about WWII. The Jewish people who now live in Israel are supposedly only 10% or so Jewish by blood, the rest are converts. So what you are saying about thousands of years ago held some credence... thousands of years ago.
Understanding this is a sensitive topic I want to stress I am in no way against either party outright. IT's just that finding a middle ground seems non existent...

What do we do to stop WWIII???

Earthman
Posted by colorfl1:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Has it crossed anybody's mind that this was all planned? It seems Israel was created as a state by a third part and put smack dab in the middle east with a future confilict in mind. They are occupying land given to them by a third party who wanted this future conflict. It is a matter of time before the **** hits the fan and ends up in destruction. None of the surrounding countries wants them there. Not that that is reason enough to leave, but I as an American don't feel like giving them billions a year and weapons to destroy their neighbors. This conflict seems like a basic premise to Bush's war on terror and I don't want no part of it. If Israel wants to fight then they should do it with thier own money, weapons, etc. and not pull the rest of us into thier destruction. I have nothing against either party, I just see this as being most easily solved by giving back the land that Israel was (for lack of a better word) illegally given (by the British I believe) and start over some where else. If Germany and Poland are thier primary persecutors, well then, why isn't the land coming from thier????
Earthmansurfer
ps - Briggs, you said if we don't like the US we can leave. If you are so blind as to not see your rights are being taken away for this FAKE war on terror and you have the nerve to tell people to leave, I suggest you stop going to CIA.com for your news... oops, I mean CNN.com. Look a bit closer in 911 and the governments role in it for your answer... This is a false flag operation with this in mind to pit us against one another and live in fear.

I am sure that makes a lot of sense to you... except for the very diabolical conspiracy element... and the fact that you grant absolutely no legitamacy for the Jewish nation to return to their rightful homeland!('');

In that light your sentiments, though popular with fringe leftists; removes from the entire equation a major fact...
that the Jewish nation was forcefully removed from this same land and scanttered accross the globe by the Assyrians and Romans...

Even after these exiles... there has always been a Jewish presance in that land for the past thousand years...

The Jewish nation has for well over a millenia celebrated every one of lifes milestones with the vow to never forget Jeruselem and the very real yearning to return to their natural homeland.

This wasn't just a strip of land that they just handed to the Jews to fit some absurd plot...

this was a land that the Jews have been struggling to return to since they were enslaved and sent into the diaspora well over a millenia ago... there is a lot of history to this very complex conflict... and a simplistic and ignorant take is not really going to be well recieved by anyone who is familiar with the intricate history involved with this conflict...


Your converts claim is a dubious one... Israeli medical centres have performed extensive genetic testing on its population. (wit the exception of the recent recent immigration from Russia and African nations) Converts make for less than 10% of people who claim to be Jewsh in Israel... in fact Judaism is the one religion where it is mandated to make it very difficult for people to convert... they definately do not persue converts... they tell people plainly; "Jews are a hated and persecuted race of people throughout the world, why would you want to become a Jew?"

No, the truth is that Jews are the one people that for generations that stayed amongst themselves, that is why major genetic research that aims to study how genes change over time is often done on Jews...

These people worked very hard to return to their homeland, the US had nothing to do with it... I can understand saying that you lose your right to return once you stop strivg for your return... but the Jews never stopped, their intention has always been to return... they declare it at every major holiday, every celebartion for birth or marriage; and even in mourning over the loss a loved one.... Jerusalem has always remained enblazoned at the forfront of the Jewish psyche. In fact, it is enrooted in the very essence of the Jewish religion, there are many practices that Jewish tradition madates to be performed when the Jew is residing his natural homeland of Israel.
In Jewish culture;To the Jew, Israel is very much entertwined with his very identity...

As far as WWIII, the Israeli crises is a symptom not the root. The root is globalization and the information age... the Islamofacists believe that they are being corrupted by western values and reject them outright. They want their societies to remain intensily authentic and don't want to deal with any outside influences... naturally this is impossible as the globalization and the information age is a pandoras box... it cannot be reversed... the Islamofacists are very envious of the wealth and successes of modern countries and they don't want to be 2nd class citizens any more... they want to rise and create a new Islamic golden age, by reclaiming old conquests like Spain and Israel,,, and once they do that the will move their cites further west....

You are right, this is scary ----. But it will happen regardless of what the US chooses to do, maybe they can buy some time; but every respected expert who looks at tis situation realizes that we are headed for a serious clash of civilzations...
simrud
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8/6/2006  1:34 PM
Firefly, I guess I did not account for the distinction between that particular sect and Hassidim in general. For whatever reason I only ran in into that particular sect. Either way I apologize for an overeaction to that ridiculous inervew. The camps thing is true though, they are free, but they do try to brainwash you with their idea of Judaism, which I don't think is right, when they are promising just a free camp, not a conversion factory.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
firefly
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8/6/2006  2:23 PM
No problem Sim. They are not even a hassidic sect. They are just a gang of like-minded axxholes. In my mind they are the worst scum in the universe.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
colorfl1
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8/6/2006  2:31 PM
Simrud: "The camps thing is true though, they are free, but they do try to brainwash you with their idea of Judaism, which I don't think is right, when they are promising just a free camp, not a conversion factory."
-----------------------------
>>>I don't think these so called camps are set up for anyone that is not a Jew... I would have heard about that... as I have a keen interest in Judaism...
A Jewish conversion camp??? Never heard of one. Even fanatical Jews don't spend much time preaching to anyone not Jewish...

I would like hear about one though...
O.T. War in the middle East...

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