earthmansurfer wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:EMS, re: what is fake news. It's an interesting point. Is horse race journalism fake news? Is poll watching and projections of the percentage chance of winning fake news? I kinda think it is. I been complaining about that stuff for months. Note I didn't put Huffington Post in my list. I don't really respect it as a news organization. There is news and there is opinion. And the prediction stuff we now see was as accurate as a horoscope. Deeply flawed but based on "facts" (current polling data) but arguably news.

But if you read though those Buzzfeed articles I posted — ironic because Buzzfeed is a clickbait pioneer — you'll see that they are talking about straight up hoax news. Sort of what we saw with that Hannity/ForexLive/NASDAQ reported BS story about Michelle Obama deleting Hillary Clinton from her Twitter. There was no factual basis. Does killing fake news kill parody/satire sites? Lots of questions I don't have answers to.

Correct the Record just seems like another type of astroturfing a/k/a "fake grassroots". Seems like an organic groundswell but really is just big money pretending it is. Been happening on the right for a while. So naturally the left is trying to get in on it. Not visiting Reddit and turning off comments with a browser extension would pretty much erase their influence though, right? Is CTR news or opinion?

Re - the polls, I would only call them fake if we could actually prove there was collusion (regarding results) between the polling companies and the e.g. DNC (in this case). I'm not sure if that is easily possible. I don'T know how much transparency is involved. But this seems like something that would just make it better for all parties involved (except those that cheat.)

Clearly MSM gets more right than wrong, but there is the leaning that they all do. I guess a sign of the times and a bi-product of capitalism. Can we really have fair news when corporations own the news? That sounds crazy. Do we know why the Washington Post was so against Trump? Bezos (CEO of Amazon) owns them - what Benefits Amazon? There is this constant conflict of interests between people, companies, governments, etc. and so "FAKE NEWS" is a very relative thing.

Just because something is true, doesn't mean it isn't "fake", right? It can still be (and usually is) leaning towards the group (companies) promoting it and what benefits them or the institutions, governments, etc. behind them. (I'm not done with looking into Buzzfeed so can't comment.)

CTR is really dangerous precedence. But then again, as you allude to (I think), it is just more of the same.

If Trump is really going to try to change things, we are in for one hell of a ride. And I care less about Trump per se than what he can accomplish. Sure, keep an eye on him if you want, but if he really tries to make America great again, what do the globalists say? This agenda that has been moving forward for years now, do they step aside and let this movement go where it will? Judging by the last week or so, looks like that is not going to be the case.

Oh, I don't think you answered my question though! lol, those things I mentioned, are they fake news? It appears quite clear to me that they are. And I'm not trying to say two wrongs make a right, or fight fire with fire, but I get the feeling that we are a part of a larger system, call it what you will (collective conscious in part), and she is self correcting now.

Ok I was wishy washy but bolded some things that answered you above. I will take your points on WashPost... I've been reading on them and yea.. problematic journalism I grant you. But I am drawing distinction between bad journalism and fake news I guess, if that makes sense. Read those Buzzfeed account about the Macedonian click farms. Outright fiction peddled to gullible Fox News fans for clicks. That's what I think the fake news label is about, but I concede it is convenient labeling that obscures problems the MSM has with itself. Because telling gullible liberal NY Times readers their horse is in the lead is probably doing a similar thing.

What was said before about individuals taking responsibility for information consumed was spot on. I just think things spiralled out of control with bad information. If you think back to the 1950's (not that I was alive then) and consider, people were generally trusting of the media. (at least relative to now. And I haven't seen stats on that, but I kind of assume the 50's were the last bastion and then the rebellion of the 60's came.) Now - no matter which way you lean it is pretty clear the media is biased. It was back in the 50's too, the Edward Bernay's "PR" movement was in full affect. People just didn't know it. It was a lot of work checking sources, now it is a click away quite often.

I read some of that Buzzfeed article and just the thought is scary. It is too easy to not be going on at a certain level. Today information is more important than ever. Public perception is too important for those who know, to lose control of imo. (But just a part of the picture of course.)

Today, we have more choices, with the internet being a huge one, it is rather everything in one if it chooses. So, controlling information will be business as usual imo. In a way, they can probable file it under National Security. After all, Homeland Security helped us by taking down sports streaming websites. lol (I give you that those sites spread malware, but from who?)

Building software/websites that help us to verify information, to connect things, they will come with more transparency. Slightly related, the tech in use now, for example Blockchains (What Bitcoin is essentially the first app on a blochain - one of money, tracking ownership essentially) will add a level of record tracking which can't realistically be changed and is available no where else, not decentralized anyway. Any information that has value can be "indexed" or "stored" there. It is apolitical, neutral, not owned by a government per se. By its very nature this technology is anti-corruptive, at least how it is now. ALL larger banks have looked into it btw, but of course they want to take parts of it, make it mutable, lol. Sounds like a slow Database to me...

Anyway, back to the point, FAKE NEWS. To be honest, I think we are witnessing the very early days of Napster. They took it down and allowed Torrent to spring up. That spread information. Now, they are going to raise standards for news. Well, what happens if that comes back to bite them just like Napster did? It is a beautiful analogy. Now that Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and such are censoring, Social Media 2.0 is on the way and parts are already here. A Twitter/Reddit like board in Gab, looks interesting https://gab.ai/ and is just one of quite a few promising new social media platforms coming out - platforms that are more difficult to censor. And some decentralized reddit like sites are on the way. Still early days, but onec TPTB lose control of media, the world can connect, communicate and probably live in peace and prosperity. The internet is where it is at. Look at how the internet changed this last presidential race? I mean is it no coincidence that you have the current president speaking out about this "Fake News" problem?

I just see this organic process is going on and it can't be steered 100%, barring a huge war, natural disaster or the like, we win. And the before mentioned would just delay that.

I think we have more than a chance to make it. I think it is a done deal.

Interesting perspective, I will look up some of the stuff you reference... I really need to understand this promise of the blockchsin.

But let me return to my original role in this thread as #1 Obama defender lol:

the guy who spread baseless misinformation about Obama's place of birth is succeeding him into office, possibly helped by a flurry of Facebook and Twitter garbage posing as news to pad the pockets of apolitical AdSense scammers.

You can see how that might hit close to home, no?

Oh yeah, the CTR thing, Fake News and the like must have been experienced by you (since you do your DD) with some of those Obama stories. Ouch.

Did Obama call them out like Trump has done? (Not to compare the 2 but really, did he sort of go public here?) Trump having that Twitter account is like a penalty flag or shooting a warning shot for certain things, could go both ways if he isn't careful, but he kinds of knows what he is doing here. He is a businessman, he is trying to close some deals I think.

I don't know much about Obama, had questions about his birth certificate and how his cabinet was chosen, but sort of never looked much.
If what you say is true, it would be interesting for me to look some of that up. I have questions anyway as I just said, maybe start an Obama thread thread?
Maybe one of us will be taking a little medicine there.

I hope you don't mind a little irony.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ObamaMalik/status/799773189291331584

Obama clowned Trump in person at the Correspondances Dinner about it, YouTube it.

Obama wouldn't dignify the accusations for a while, then released the long form or some version... it was a ridiculous argument. Fox News sure had Trump on a lot talking about this fake controversy about being "Barry Soetero" from Kenya or an Indonesian. "I'm hearing things... we have to figure out what's going on" -- trafficking in innuendo.

Trump now admits Obama is natural born citizen but never said he was wrong, never apologized. The damage was done.

Haha... the Kenyan Roger Clinton

DrAlphaeus wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

arkrud wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeed/status/799350731065044992

The problem is, who is going to help us decide what is fake? Oh, wait, I know, the government? Corporations? Isn't that what got us into our current mess?

To be honest, the purest source of information by far this election, which is what brought up all this fake news talk, are the Wiki Leaks emails, right from the Horses mouth.
And many of the emails can be verified with DKIM headers. (Don't ask me to explain that!)

If a pre-election poll showed Trump to have a 1% chance of winning, is that Fake?
When there is an interview about Clinton and an interviewee gets cut off right when they bring up Wikileaks, is that Fake?
If the NY Times makes an apology regarding wanting to be less biased, does that mean some of what they shared was Fake news? http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/new-york-times-we-blew-it-on-trump/
If you were told reading Wikileaks was illegal, is that Fake news?
All of those things and many more, happened on mainstream. Basically, they are bleeding and need to try to bring their programming audience back, so we better get the president involved and make up a law.

The Standard will never go both ways, Fake news is a word like Terrorism, it is the enemy who gets the label, even if you do the same thing as them.

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Don't quote Orwell, he was very left wing- he would be disgusted at who you support

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Orwell was one the biggest anti-communist and anti-socialist to the extend his books were banned in socialist countries and people who read them were considered the enemies of the state.
Truth is simple, accepting it is hard.
But even not accepted truth remained truth.
Power corrupt and absolute power corrupt absolutely.
Checks and balances in US political system, seniority of the rights of the human being over the rights of government, and free market economy with all flaws they have are the guaranty against tyranny, dictatorship, and ensure gradual progress.
Any system will produce winners and losers, some people will not be treated fairly.
But it is the price to pay for bigger and more important things.

I enjoyed that read. I really know nothing about Orwell but I'm going to watch 1984 again. (Last thing I need, eh?)
Enjoy the ride...

Orwell is awesome and was totally opposed to totalitarianism — Animal Farm is totally about the USSR and the rise of Stalinism — but he wasn't an anti-socialist. arkrud has a clear bias against anything involving socialism, but Orwell didn't share that view.

Just "correcting the record" EMS, lest you use arkrud's slightly cracked brick in your foundation.

I am deferentially open to other opinions.
The naming of political moments are semantics.
Many political parties take this label to get more people on-board but have in fact mainstream free-market capitalist programs.
I am OK with socialist ideas which are not forced on people.
Israel Kibbutz system is a good example of socialist and even communist community in action.
And it is quite successful regardless of some of them being religious communities and some atheist.
They have free join/leave practice and it established that %1-1.5 of country population can enjoy leaving this way.
It may be possible that this number will increase in the future or is bigger in other countries.
My point is - socialism should be a free choice not system enforced by government.

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Just like the vote Trump and co will shock again

Just sit back and listen to the inane obtuse ideas coming out of the mouths of the people not comprehending what this is all about. Trump is about nationalism Trump will rebuild infrastructure create millions of good paying jobs lower taxes while we see GDP growth rise up to 3.5-4.5% we will begin to lower our deficit and there will be many with cake on their faces but atleast they'll have a job!

In your postings in the past you've revealed you are homophobic, racist and that you put your hands round your wife's throat when youve argued ('just to show her you cared' or some such crap was your justification) so I'm not surprised you're excited about Trump's reign.

Mr Ad Hominem with a little guilt by association thrown in, nice example there of attacking the messenger and ignoring the message. Why do you want to attack him as a person? Is what he says sort of true? Yeah, it is. It is pretty clear that what Briggs said is Trumps plan. The guy has a better idea on how to fix this country and in part a lot of respectable people got behind him. You are witnessing it and will continue to. Give him a chance.

Answer me this, what are your honest views on LGBT rights, racism and misogyny? Im genuinely curious

First, answer my point above instead of getting me to answer you. That is fair. You attacked him. I'm not sure about what he said and there was no context given. But instead of talking about his points on Trump, you attacked his person. And I'm curious why. If Briggs is such a bad guy I think I would have been seeing it a lot and I've been on this board for years. Mostly people would complain because he made too many new threads, never heard him name called like you just did (At least I don't remember that).

At the moment it's all guess work/faith that he'll make the economy great- history would show what he's proposing won't help, but then again he was also lying so it's hard to fathom what he will actually end up doing. My issue is with the complete silence you and BRIGGs and co have regarding the bigotry. I can only assume it's because you either agree with trump, or simply don't care.

As for BRIGGs, he called for the nuclear inhalation of the Middle East, in a thread about domestic violence said what he does to his wife, in a thread about gay players said he wouldn't want to change in a locker room with them, etc etc. I've no interest in what Briggs is like as a person, he might be a nice guy, and he's done some very nice things for these boards and it's members, but I will always challenge his views.

It might be a bit of guess work and faith, but look at where we are at right now. The banking system is broken, unemployment is high and things just don't look that good. 2008 is catching up to us. The only thing that will get us out of here is some smart thinking. I really don't know if Trumps plan can soften the fall that we are continually getting closer to happening. But, I don't think the US Dollar fails before the Euro. If Trump can create some jobs and I think his plans idea is solid. But we need something drastically different as things are broken.

I see Brigg's reply to you, so I'll just keep out for now, but thanks for answering me there. Maybe you guys can clear things up. If I can say, if he put out personal stuff and wasn't bragging about it, and if he knew it wasn't the right thing but changed enough to share it, don't judge the guy. I don't mean that against you.

Regarding "what are your honest views on LGBT rights, racism and misogyny?"
I really don't separate people based on sexual preference, gender preference, etc. I grew up in Brooklyn and I never understood the hate for people that were different in that way. Never in my life. Likewise, I didn't understand why my good (black) friend at school wanted to be white (Cause the local guys threatened me to kill him if I brought the N*** back to the neighborhood.) That was a bit rough on me. They did end up killing some other black guys about a year later. That is when we left Brooklyn. I'm sure inside me there are some uncomfortable parts relating to people who are different, but I genuinely treat people like people, not based on anything about them that society doesn't accept.

Everyone is in a different position though, with their experiences, culture and family, etc. guiding them along the way. I really don't feel like hating on people who are racist, just as I don't hate on people of a different race. I actually met a Neo Nazi here and actually was super open and nice to him. Think it made him uncomfortable at times (as he was kind of bound up in a certain way, traditional, wearing the lederhosen, lol) I felt like he needed some love, so to speak. I take that over trying to fix someone (outright). Not making excuses either.

Regarding the hatred of women. See above, I really don't see separation of people(s) like that. I may say policeman out of habit, instead of policewoman. I don't get all the hate in the world. This thread, by far, is the most amount of hate that I experience - receive and "give". (Not that I hate something or somebody, but it gets testy at times, a bit personal it seems.)
I'm a bit tired of that, so will do my part to reduce it, and I hope others look in the mirror and do something too. None of us are perfect. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone sort of thing...

I don't have a problem with Trump, I'm gonna give him a chance.

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Just like the vote Trump and co will shock again

Just sit back and listen to the inane obtuse ideas coming out of the mouths of the people not comprehending what this is all about. Trump is about nationalism Trump will rebuild infrastructure create millions of good paying jobs lower taxes while we see GDP growth rise up to 3.5-4.5% we will begin to lower our deficit and there will be many with cake on their faces but atleast they'll have a job!

In your postings in the past you've revealed you are homophobic, racist and that you put your hands round your wife's throat when youve argued ('just to show her you cared' or some such crap was your justification) so I'm not surprised you're excited about Trump's reign.

Mr Ad Hominem with a little guilt by association thrown in, nice example there of attacking the messenger and ignoring the message. Why do you want to attack him as a person? Is what he says sort of true? Yeah, it is. It is pretty clear that what Briggs said is Trumps plan. The guy has a better idea on how to fix this country and in part a lot of respectable people got behind him. You are witnessing it and will continue to. Give him a chance.

Answer me this, what are your honest views on LGBT rights, racism and misogyny? Im genuinely curious

First, answer my point above instead of getting me to answer you. That is fair. You attacked him. I'm not sure about what he said and there was no context given. But instead of talking about his points on Trump, you attacked his person. And I'm curious why. If Briggs is such a bad guy I think I would have been seeing it a lot and I've been on this board for years. Mostly people would complain because he made too many new threads, never heard him name called like you just did (At least I don't remember that).

At the moment it's all guess work/faith that he'll make the economy great- history would show what he's proposing won't help, but then again he was also lying so it's hard to fathom what he will actually end up doing. My issue is with the complete silence you and BRIGGs and co have regarding the bigotry. I can only assume it's because you either agree with trump, or simply don't care.

As for BRIGGs, he called for the nuclear inhalation of the Middle East, in a thread about domestic violence said what he does to his wife, in a thread about gay players said he wouldn't want to change in a locker room with them, etc etc. I've no interest in what Briggs is like as a person, he might be a nice guy, and he's done some very nice things for these boards and it's members, but I will always challenge his views.

It might be a bit of guess work and faith, but look at where we are at right now. The banking system is broken, unemployment is high and things just don't look that good. 2008 is catching up to us. The only thing that will get us out of here is some smart thinking. I really don't know if Trumps plan can soften the fall that we are continually getting closer to happening. But, I don't think the US Dollar fails before the Euro. If Trump can create some jobs and I think his plans idea is solid. But we need something drastically different as things are broken.

I see Brigg's reply to you, so I'll just keep out for now, but thanks for answering me there. Maybe you guys can clear things up. If I can say, if he put out personal stuff and wasn't bragging about it, and if he knew it wasn't the right thing but changed enough to share it, don't judge the guy. I don't mean that against you.

Regarding "what are your honest views on LGBT rights, racism and misogyny?"
I really don't separate people based on sexual preference, gender preference, etc. I grew up in Brooklyn and I never understood the hate for people that were different in that way. Never in my life. Likewise, I didn't understand why my good (black) friend at school wanted to be white (Cause the local guys threatened me to kill him if I brought the N*** back to the neighborhood.) That was a bit rough on me. They did end up killing some other black guys about a year later. That is when we left Brooklyn. I'm sure inside me there are some uncomfortable parts relating to people who are different, but I genuinely treat people like people, not based on anything about them that society doesn't accept.

Everyone is in a different position though, with their experiences, culture and family, etc. guiding them along the way. I really don't feel like hating on people who are racist, just as I don't hate on people of a different race. I actually met a Neo Nazi here and actually was super open and nice to him. Think it made him uncomfortable at times (as he was kind of bound up in a certain way, traditional, wearing the lederhosen, lol) I felt like he needed some love, so to speak. I take that over trying to fix someone (outright). Not making excuses either.

Regarding the hatred of women. See above, I really don't see separation of people(s) like that. I may say policeman out of habit, instead of policewoman. I don't get all the hate in the world. This thread, by far, is the most amount of hate that I experience - receive and "give". (Not that I hate something or somebody, but it gets testy at times, a bit personal it seems.)
I'm a bit tired of that, so will do my part to reduce it, and I hope others look in the mirror and do something too. None of us are perfect. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone sort of thing...

I don't have a problem with Trump, I'm gonna give him a chance.

+1
When you hate people you became like once you hate and when you love people you became like once you love.
So why bring all this misery on yourself for no reason.
Just look in the eyes of a stranger and think if you will accept if God will come to you in his body.
And you will accept anyone.
We are all one anyways... just some separated themselves from the source and struggle to connect back.

gunsnewing wrote:

Nice try but the argument is a lame, epic fail.

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Just like the vote Trump and co will shock again

Just sit back and listen to the inane obtuse ideas coming out of the mouths of the people not comprehending what this is all about. Trump is about nationalism Trump will rebuild infrastructure create millions of good paying jobs lower taxes while we see GDP growth rise up to 3.5-4.5% we will begin to lower our deficit and there will be many with cake on their faces but atleast they'll have a job!

In your postings in the past you've revealed you are homophobic, racist and that you put your hands round your wife's throat when youve argued ('just to show her you cared' or some such crap was your justification) so I'm not surprised you're excited about Trump's reign.

Mr Ad Hominem with a little guilt by association thrown in, nice example there of attacking the messenger and ignoring the message. Why do you want to attack him as a person? Is what he says sort of true? Yeah, it is. It is pretty clear that what Briggs said is Trumps plan. The guy has a better idea on how to fix this country and in part a lot of respectable people got behind him. You are witnessing it and will continue to. Give him a chance.

Answer me this, what are your honest views on LGBT rights, racism and misogyny? Im genuinely curious

First, answer my point above instead of getting me to answer you. That is fair. You attacked him. I'm not sure about what he said and there was no context given. But instead of talking about his points on Trump, you attacked his person. And I'm curious why. If Briggs is such a bad guy I think I would have been seeing it a lot and I've been on this board for years. Mostly people would complain because he made too many new threads, never heard him name called like you just did (At least I don't remember that).

At the moment it's all guess work/faith that he'll make the economy great- history would show what he's proposing won't help, but then again he was also lying so it's hard to fathom what he will actually end up doing. My issue is with the complete silence you and BRIGGs and co have regarding the bigotry. I can only assume it's because you either agree with trump, or simply don't care.

As for BRIGGs, he called for the nuclear inhalation of the Middle East, in a thread about domestic violence said what he does to his wife, in a thread about gay players said he wouldn't want to change in a locker room with them, etc etc. I've no interest in what Briggs is like as a person, he might be a nice guy, and he's done some very nice things for these boards and it's members, but I will always challenge his views.

It might be a bit of guess work and faith, but look at where we are at right now. The banking system is broken, unemployment is high and things just don't look that good. 2008 is catching up to us. The only thing that will get us out of here is some smart thinking. I really don't know if Trumps plan can soften the fall that we are continually getting closer to happening. But, I don't think the US Dollar fails before the Euro. If Trump can create some jobs and I think his plans idea is solid. But we need something drastically different as things are broken.

I see Brigg's reply to you, so I'll just keep out for now, but thanks for answering me there. Maybe you guys can clear things up. If I can say, if he put out personal stuff and wasn't bragging about it, and if he knew it wasn't the right thing but changed enough to share it, don't judge the guy. I don't mean that against you.

Regarding "what are your honest views on LGBT rights, racism and misogyny?"
I really don't separate people based on sexual preference, gender preference, etc. I grew up in Brooklyn and I never understood the hate for people that were different in that way. Never in my life. Likewise, I didn't understand why my good (black) friend at school wanted to be white (Cause the local guys threatened me to kill him if I brought the N*** back to the neighborhood.) That was a bit rough on me. They did end up killing some other black guys about a year later. That is when we left Brooklyn. I'm sure inside me there are some uncomfortable parts relating to people who are different, but I genuinely treat people like people, not based on anything about them that society doesn't accept.

Everyone is in a different position though, with their experiences, culture and family, etc. guiding them along the way. I really don't feel like hating on people who are racist, just as I don't hate on people of a different race. I actually met a Neo Nazi here and actually was super open and nice to him. Think it made him uncomfortable at times (as he was kind of bound up in a certain way, traditional, wearing the lederhosen, lol) I felt like he needed some love, so to speak. I take that over trying to fix someone (outright). Not making excuses either.

Regarding the hatred of women. See above, I really don't see separation of people(s) like that. I may say policeman out of habit, instead of policewoman. I don't get all the hate in the world. This thread, by far, is the most amount of hate that I experience - receive and "give". (Not that I hate something or somebody, but it gets testy at times, a bit personal it seems.)
I'm a bit tired of that, so will do my part to reduce it, and I hope others look in the mirror and do something too. None of us are perfect. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone sort of thing...

I don't have a problem with Trump, I'm gonna give him a chance.

I have never taken issue with your fed up-ness with corruption, and dislike of Hilary Clinton's relationship with Wall Street etc (I'm a Bernie Sanders man), on that side of things though I think you've been conned by trump, but we'll see (I'd love it if he did 'drain the swamp'- I just don't think he will). The emotive bit for me has been the other side- the kind of people he'll give power to. A lot of his supporters are likely very similar to you- we'd get on fine in person, but I'd struggle to get how they can go to holding views of basic decency to voting for someone who stands for the opposite, and that's something I've always struggled with in politics. Ugly stuff can hide behind good manners.

I have been getting increasingly worked up on this thread, because I've read your posts on how everything's going great, and then also read the other side of that and the real fear there is amongst black people, muslims, LGBT folk, etc, and I guess it's felt very antagonistic (and I know I've responded by being very antagonistic). I'm worried and I'm angry, man. Probably ended up directing more of it at you than is fair, maybe not (I don't actually know you so I can't determine that). I think sometimes you make posts that are actually quite antagonistic (whether that is your intent or not), and then rather than own it, you retreat to 'hey, whoa there, I'm a nice guy!", and don't seem to get why people have responded to you with antagonism (it's because they felt your post was antagonistic).

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Just like the vote Trump and co will shock again

Just sit back and listen to the inane obtuse ideas coming out of the mouths of the people not comprehending what this is all about. Trump is about nationalism Trump will rebuild infrastructure create millions of good paying jobs lower taxes while we see GDP growth rise up to 3.5-4.5% we will begin to lower our deficit and there will be many with cake on their faces but atleast they'll have a job!

In your postings in the past you've revealed you are homophobic, racist and that you put your hands round your wife's throat when youve argued ('just to show her you cared' or some such crap was your justification) so I'm not surprised you're excited about Trump's reign.

Are you insane? I could care less if someone is homosexual and my best friends for life are not white. I grew up in a section of Brooklyn as diverse as anywhere on the planet. yep one time I put my hands on my wife's throat for roughly 3 seconds--I fcked up- and why did I post that here--who knows. Ive been here 16 years and from time to time Ive posted something personal. But you dont know me-- have you ever done something like bought 300 kids tickets to go see Uconn who had no dad's? That is just one example of many many things I have done in my life. And you can believe me or not--but Id bet Im eaily one of the most honest open dudes you'll also ever meet. I dont need you to tell me who I am--I know who I am.

See my later post regarding not judging you as a person, but yes I do judge your views. My beef with you goes back to when you said the middle east should be nuked- that's where my family are. I've mentioned it several times since and you've never once retracted it or apologized for it, so I can only assume you still uphold that view and would support Trump if he proposed it. I find it a very racist viewpoint, and if I'd proposed the same thing to your family, you'd have some beef with me. Like I said in my other post, I've seen you do nice things, but then you also propose killing my family and a load of children, and I can't really square the two things.

I work with survivors of domestic abuse, rape, sexual assault, homophobia, half my family are muslims etc, so it is a very emotive topic for me when people go voting for Trump, or when they just ignore that side of his policies and the company he keeps, and instead act like that stuff is irrelevant and we're all in for good times. I'm really angry about it lately, which is probably why I've been more antagonistic lately. I'm sure you'll do fine under Trump, but I wish you'd spend a bit more time thinking about what it's like for those that won't.

Yep in the text of us versus them if all the marbles were on the line I certainly would protect my own even if it called for the use of major weapons. Do I actually want to see that happen? I'm primarily a pacifist I'm just an old sports fan from ct I don't really want to see any violence unless it's wwe😸. In my heart I don't believe in racism or violence of any kind. I'd much rather be friendly with someone. That's it

And that's something I struggle with, it's tough knowing someone would kill your family if push came to shove, and I do worry about the conflicts in the middle east escalating and coming to that- with Trump in charge, I'm worried he'll put some hardliners in prominent positions that will push for a more aggressive middle east stance (that nearly always end up being counter productive).

Having said that I can't actually conceive of a situation where your family would be under a threat that could only be stopped by nuking a country zillions of miles away. It kind of puts me in bind BRIGGS- I like your scouting, I'm sure you're a nice guy and friendly, but you'd also kill my family- I'm not sure what I'm meant to do with all that

Welpee wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Yeah, because land is more important than people. Got it.

Nice try but the argument is a lame, epic fail.

Come on this is an overwhelming concentration of the us despite the volume in areas of blue. In some ways this has to be one of the most dominant wins of all time if we factor in the forces against trump. Also give these guys a chance. Does Mike Pence and his wife deserve to go to a Broadway show in peace? And does he have to take a sermon from people when he's done absolutely nothing wrong? Give the guy a chance. Of I was wrong I'll lead the parade to get rid of them but I don't think this is about that. I think 100% opposite and well see. I'm looking to see them produce a lot of good jobs build us infrastructure including all inner cities get our debt and immigration under control. They all interrelate

BRIGGS wrote:Just like the vote Trump and co will shock again

Just sit back and listen to the inane obtuse ideas coming out of the mouths of the people not comprehending what this is all about. Trump is about nationalism Trump will rebuild infrastructure create millions of good paying jobs lower taxes while we see GDP growth rise up to 3.5-4.5% we will begin to lower our deficit and there will be many with cake on their faces but atleast they'll have a job!

The deficit is 587 billion thanks to Obama...Not much worries there..You must be talking about the debt..Trump's plan would add 6 trillion dollars to our 19.8 trillion dollar debt..This is an intentional increase of 30% by one man...Wall Street is giddy because they are about to get paid...One guy who doesn't think this is funny is bond king Bill Gross, who ran PIMCO for many years, now at Janus..He sees zero stimulus just like the Bush years...Companies are doing massive repurchasing to stock as we speak, why didn't they use that money to expand and "create more jobs" as Trump and other trickle down gurus are suggesting..This will be just another boondoggle that favors Wall Street...And trust me, I don't mind one bit, I just hate seeing middle class America being fed a load of BS...

Here is Bill Gross on Trump's plan...

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000568635