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TeamBall
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4/27/2013  10:53 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think anyone's bashing Melo for the playoffs. He's played his role as a scoring specialist quite well. You seem to be in an alternate universe.

His playoff record has been used to put him down countless times.

I meant for this year's playoffs.

My mistake. How could they though? The Knicks are winning pretty convincingly.
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Papabear
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4/27/2013  11:12 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think anyone's bashing Melo for the playoffs. He's played his role as a scoring specialist quite well. You seem to be in an alternate universe.

Papabear Says

In your definition please explain your meaning of a scoring specialist that you say thats all Melo is. Please explain. And why he is nothing else in your opinion. These are your words and you keep on saying it. Oh by the way Jamal Crawford is a scoring specialist. How do you compare??

Papabear
smackeddog
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4/27/2013  11:19 AM
Uptown wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Denver Loose.


Probably. They're about as injured as we were in the playoffs last year.

So, these version of the Nuggs get an excuse from you, but you never mention how the Melo version of the Nuggs were out-manned and frankly out coached when he was losing to the Spurs and Lakers while being under-seeded.....

the melo version of the nuggets failed every year for 8 seasons....

Exactly, Karl is just terrible.

karl is a great coach actually.... his teams don't get beat by an average of 40ppg in any playoff series.. guess who was the last coach to do that?

So, those 8 seasons when, as you claim, Melo didn't do anything, guess who the coach was for those 8 seasons? Why does the coach get a pass?

Exactly. Always thought it was unfair when people stated melo's playoff record.

Rule one of statistics: correlation does not imply causation. Just because he was on those Denver teams, it doesn't mean he was responsible for them losing in the first round. Same when it comes to judging Woody or Karl based on their playoff records alone- the reason their teams didn't advance deep into the playoffs could be down to a wide number of things. In Woody's case it was simply he maxed out the Hawks potential- you look at that roster and the personnel and it clear that they're just a second round team. Reason the Nuggets didn't do great the last 8 seasons was that they were the lower seed in a tough, tough Western conference.
Bonn1997
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4/27/2013  11:23 AM
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think anyone's bashing Melo for the playoffs. He's played his role as a scoring specialist quite well. You seem to be in an alternate universe.

Papabear Says

As a scoring specialist??? You are in an alternate universe which is this thread. Melo is the Knicks leader and if it was not for him we would not be where we are now. scoring specialist?? I bet it hurt you to say that.


In playoffs at the PF spot he's averaging 3 boards and 0 blocks. He's the leading scorer - so he's the leader in that sense. You're too sensitive if you can't even acknowledge that his #s across the board other than scoring are bad for his position. I'm at least trying to be fair by indicating both what he's doing well and poorly.
smackeddog
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4/27/2013  11:23 AM
Uptown wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Clowns? You're taking this a bit too seriously. Depth doesn't matter if almost every one of those players referenced is injured.

Other than Gallo, who is injured? Serious question....

Ha, until you said that, for some reason I had it in my head that Denver were suffering from a lot of injuries. I think it was because Wilson got that shoulder injury a few weeks before the season ended, then Lawson went down, then Gallo, then Faried. However Wilson and Lawson seem to be back and effective. Faried is almost back to normal. Guess it just leaves Gallo.

In the Playoffs you need an alpha dog on your team- Denver just doesn't have one, and until they do they'll just be a good regular season team who comes up short.
Bonn1997
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4/27/2013  11:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2013  11:25 AM
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think anyone's bashing Melo for the playoffs. He's played his role as a scoring specialist quite well. You seem to be in an alternate universe.

Papabear Says

In your definition please explain your meaning of a scoring specialist that you say thats all Melo is. Please explain. And why he is nothing else in your opinion. These are your words and you keep on saying it. Oh by the way Jamal Crawford is a scoring specialist. How do you compare??


If you're below average at everything other than scoring, you are a scoring specialist. That's not to say the team doesn't need him. He's playing a very important role.
smackeddog
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4/27/2013  11:28 AM
Can't believe how injured the lakers are- Steve Blake AND Nash AND Jodie Meeks were out last night, MWP hobbled with his meniscus tear, Kobe is done, Gasol had the foot tear, Dwight had the seperated shoulder, Jordan Hill had the hip injury. that team had a lot of injuries. Wonder if it's just bad luck, bad medical staff, bad conditioning or D'Antoni's system running players into the ground.
Uptown
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4/27/2013  12:20 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Uptown wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Denver Loose.


Probably. They're about as injured as we were in the playoffs last year.

So, these version of the Nuggs get an excuse from you, but you never mention how the Melo version of the Nuggs were out-manned and frankly out coached when he was losing to the Spurs and Lakers while being under-seeded.....

the melo version of the nuggets failed every year for 8 seasons....

Exactly, Karl is just terrible.

karl is a great coach actually.... his teams don't get beat by an average of 40ppg in any playoff series.. guess who was the last coach to do that?

So, those 8 seasons when, as you claim, Melo didn't do anything, guess who the coach was for those 8 seasons? Why does the coach get a pass?

Exactly. Always thought it was unfair when people stated melo's playoff record.

Rule one of statistics: correlation does not imply causation. Just because he was on those Denver teams, it doesn't mean he was responsible for them losing in the first round. Same when it comes to judging Woody or Karl based on their playoff records alone- the reason their teams didn't advance deep into the playoffs could be down to a wide number of things. In Woody's case it was simply he maxed out the Hawks potential- you look at that roster and the personnel and it clear that they're just a second round team. Reason the Nuggets didn't do great the last 8 seasons was that they were the lower seed in a tough, tough Western conference.

Now this is a logical post that I can endorse....
yellowboy90
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4/27/2013  1:21 PM
Karl was not the coach for all of Melo's career. So try to be fair.
yellowboy90
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4/27/2013  1:24 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think anyone's bashing Melo for the playoffs. He's played his role as a scoring specialist quite well. You seem to be in an alternate universe.

Papabear Says

As a scoring specialist??? You are in an alternate universe which is this thread. Melo is the Knicks leader and if it was not for him we would not be where we are now. scoring specialist?? I bet it hurt you to say that.


In playoffs at the PF spot he's averaging 3 boards and 0 blocks. He's the leading scorer - so he's the leader in that sense. You're too sensitive if you can't even acknowledge that his #s across the board other than scoring are bad for his position. I'm at least trying to be fair by indicating both what he's doing well and poorly.

Is his numbers for steals bad? Defense seems to be very good. It is what it is.
Bonn1997
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4/27/2013  1:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2013  2:05 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think anyone's bashing Melo for the playoffs. He's played his role as a scoring specialist quite well. You seem to be in an alternate universe.

Papabear Says

As a scoring specialist??? You are in an alternate universe which is this thread. Melo is the Knicks leader and if it was not for him we would not be where we are now. scoring specialist?? I bet it hurt you to say that.


In playoffs at the PF spot he's averaging 3 boards and 0 blocks. He's the leading scorer - so he's the leader in that sense. You're too sensitive if you can't even acknowledge that his #s across the board other than scoring are bad for his position. I'm at least trying to be fair by indicating both what he's doing well and poorly.

Is his numbers for steals bad? Defense seems to be very good. It is what it is.


For the season as a whole, his steals were below average. He had one anomalous game in the post-season. If he keeps up a good steal count for the playoffs, I will definitely give him credit for that, though.

Per 48 min compared to the average PF he was:
TS%: +.015 (with a very high PPG)
REB: -2.4
Assist-TO: -0.1
Blk: -0.6
Stl: -0.4

He's playing his role well. If you can score at above average efficiency for a high volume, that helps a lot. He doesn't have the kind of well-rounded contributions that several others on the team do though.
holfresh
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4/27/2013  1:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2013  1:53 PM
The so called scoring specialist has been the best all around player in the NBA the last month, playoffs included...He shut down Jeff Green in the second half of game 1 after a great start...No one has been playing better basketball than Carmelo the last month, regular season and playoffs, LeBron included...Tim Duncan has been balling but hardly played in the last month..
Bonn1997
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4/27/2013  1:56 PM
holfresh wrote:The so called scoring specialist has been the best all around player in the NBA the last month, playoffs included...He shut down Jeff Green in the second half of game 1 after a great start...No one has been playing better basketball than Carmelo the last month, regular season and playoffs, LeBron included...Tim Duncan has been balling but hardly played in the last month..

Our views couldn't be more diametrically opposed but I can't imagine that there's anything left to discuss. I do give Melo credit for excelling in one dimension of the game though. He's playing his role as the efficient high PPG player well.
NumberTwoPencil
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4/27/2013  2:04 PM
The Warriors continue to surprise but . . . I'll be surprised again if they end up beating Denver. Curry, Jack, and Barnes have been playing out of their minds but Karl's adjustments have been reasonably effective. Guys are getting used to playing with Galinari out, Faried half back, and Lawson mostly back and I think Denver's probably going to get it together and end up winning four games. OTOH . . . a Warriors Spurs second round series would be entertaining.
holfresh
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4/27/2013  2:05 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:The so called scoring specialist has been the best all around player in the NBA the last month, playoffs included...He shut down Jeff Green in the second half of game 1 after a great start...No one has been playing better basketball than Carmelo the last month, regular season and playoffs, LeBron included...Tim Duncan has been balling but hardly played in the last month..

Our views couldn't be more diametrically opposed but I can't imagine that there's anything left to discuss. I do give Melo credit for excelling in one dimension of the game though. He's playing his role as the efficient high PPG player well.

Well you are wrong as usual..His defense has been excellent as well...He is doing exactly what the team needs to do the most important thing and that's win games...His rebounding numbers was excellent as well in April because the team needed it...You was trying to marginalized his contribution as you usually do, but he is leading this team to wins, the most critical stat in the NBA, and not even you can argue that..
holfresh
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4/27/2013  2:09 PM
Bonn, who has been the best player in the NBA the last month???
Nalod
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4/27/2013  2:10 PM
Uptown wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Denver Loose.


Probably. They're about as injured as we were in the playoffs last year.

So, these version of the Nuggs get an excuse from you, but you never mention how the Melo version of the Nuggs were out-manned and frankly out coached when he was losing to the Spurs and Lakers while being under-seeded.....

Can give props to melo for maturing and having a better game now vs. then?

Denver and Rockets were regular season surprise. The team Melo was on that went to WCF was pretty darn good.

The worse Karl is as a coach actually validate Melo's career somehow?

I'd think his "In the conversation led NBA in scoring" do some talking for itself!

Nuggs won 57 games in the west and had a nice winning streak.

That alone is the fact. Playoffs are another factor.
Bonn1997
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4/27/2013  2:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2013  2:21 PM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:The so called scoring specialist has been the best all around player in the NBA the last month, playoffs included...He shut down Jeff Green in the second half of game 1 after a great start...No one has been playing better basketball than Carmelo the last month, regular season and playoffs, LeBron included...Tim Duncan has been balling but hardly played in the last month..

Our views couldn't be more diametrically opposed but I can't imagine that there's anything left to discuss. I do give Melo credit for excelling in one dimension of the game though. He's playing his role as the efficient high PPG player well.

Well you are wrong as usual..His defense has been excellent as well...He is doing exactly what the team needs to do the most important thing and that's win games...His rebounding numbers was excellent as well in April because the team needed it...You was trying to marginalized his contribution as you usually do, but he is leading this team to wins, the most critical stat in the NBA, and not even you can argue that..


His defensive stats are average. His rebounding in April was fine for a PF but you shouldn't give more weight to any one month of the season anyway. I don't marginalize his contributions - the team would be in trouble without him (but also in trouble without Kidd, Prigs, K-Mart, or Chandler). I just don't glorify scoring specialists either. I would not call him remotely close to a superstar but I would call him an important player.
BTW, telling someone they're wrong - no matter how many times you repeat it - does not make it so.
Bonn1997
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4/27/2013  2:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/27/2013  2:13 PM
holfresh wrote:Bonn, who has been the best player in the NBA the last month???

I don't see the point in evaluating players by month. I'd have to look at the data really closely to answer your question. It might be Lebron or Durant but I'm just speculating without looking closely at the data. I know Deron had a ridiculous April too.
Nalod
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4/27/2013  2:17 PM
Give Bogurt credit. He has been healthy for a nice stretch as had Curry.

Sometimes its not one team "failing" but another rising up and succeeding.
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