DLeethal wrote:Truthfully this team has looked out of sorts all playoffs and has not really played any great games besides game 6 versus Boston. Every win versus Detroit required some level of clutch heroics and we trailed double digits in most of those and stole them late. Boston we won two games where we got dominated for 3Q. Indy we won a game where we got dominated for 3Q. This team hasn’t played complete games or looked the part of a Finals team at all. It’s been one of the wonkiest playoff runs ever I think anyone would agree with that. I thank them for the exhilarating run but this team isn’t ready and they haven’t looked well coached at all. And frankly Thibs looks absolutely confused with what to do with this roster so he just rides his 5 guys even though they get cooked when they play together.

Agree w this. I think he doesn’t know how to best utilize KAT.

He’s pg dominant like he was w Bulls

KAT is unique between his shooting and his drives he plays like a SG.

If Jason Kidd were our coach we would have found a way to exploit that better for sure

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Truthfully this team has looked out of sorts all playoffs and has not really played any great games besides game 6 versus Boston. Every win versus Detroit required some level of clutch heroics and we trailed double digits in most of those and stole them late. Boston we won two games where we got dominated for 3Q. Indy we won a game where we got dominated for 3Q. This team hasn’t played complete games or looked the part of a Finals team at all. It’s been one of the wonkiest playoff runs ever I think anyone would agree with that. I thank them for the exhilarating run but this team isn’t ready and they haven’t looked well coached at all. And frankly Thibs looks absolutely confused with what to do with this roster so he just rides his 5 guys even though they get cooked when they play together.

yea its been an odd run, lots of anxiety.

So the fact we havent really played all that well but are close to the finals can be a good thing, unless you think these starters just cant play elite together and that's also quite possible.

I think it is a good thing and shows this team is really close IMO. And there’s a lot of talent. To get where we got without even playing well speaks for itself. But I just don’t think Brunson and KAT can play championship level defense unless we figure we need one more POA defender to make it work at the 2 guard spot. I’m not smart enough to know if that is the answer or not. I do know that you can’t win a chip when your two best players need to be staggered most of the game because they have a negative net rating together.

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Let me try to summarize what seems obvious by now (to me)...KAT and Brunson are both great offensive threats but clearly defensively challenged. Playing both at the same time puts too much pressure on Bridges, OG and Hart or whoever else is there to play defense and stand around for kickouts when those two can't iso well. Playing Mitch alongside KAT helps but Mitch has his challenges staying healthy, hitting free throws, etc...

Assuming no significant roster changes it really makes little sense to keep both KAT and Brunson at their salaries and need to both be starters. If KAT could come off the bench and be featured we would probably be more effective as a team overall (but that would not happen). Ironic that we supposedly were considering Myles Turner for like 3 seasons as he would have been better for us because we wouldn't have to hide him defensively and while he's not a potent - he can shoot well enough from deep.

So unless Mitch starts at C KAT is probably the odd man out since Brunson is god-like and a Nova guy. I think OG is actually undervalued as he can fit on most any team. Yes we overpaid for Bridges and he does fit next to Brunson but I think if we want to upgrade this team it has to be KAT and Bridges.

I think we take Game 5 at home btw!

Really think we missed DDV this post season.

Brunson being treated as god-like is going to be a/the problem going forward - will be interesting to see if front office will make right decisions.

We are seeing some of the issues Becky Hammon pointed to in terms of Jalen and being at that top/top tier.

Are you honestly suggesting trading Brunson lol

I’m suggesting that his play to contract $ may become a major issue in a few years and he takes a significant beating every night.

We have 4 years starting next season to worry about that.

You mean he’s not due for new deal for 4 years? I didn’t realize that - is that right?

The 4 year extension he just signed begins the 2025-26 season.

https://www.nba.com/news/jalen-brunson-knicks-extension

Right but isn't there supposed to be some type of wink/wink that Knicks will re-work his deal in a year or so once the CAP jumps again?

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Let me try to summarize what seems obvious by now (to me)...KAT and Brunson are both great offensive threats but clearly defensively challenged. Playing both at the same time puts too much pressure on Bridges, OG and Hart or whoever else is there to play defense and stand around for kickouts when those two can't iso well. Playing Mitch alongside KAT helps but Mitch has his challenges staying healthy, hitting free throws, etc...

Assuming no significant roster changes it really makes little sense to keep both KAT and Brunson at their salaries and need to both be starters. If KAT could come off the bench and be featured we would probably be more effective as a team overall (but that would not happen). Ironic that we supposedly were considering Myles Turner for like 3 seasons as he would have been better for us because we wouldn't have to hide him defensively and while he's not a potent - he can shoot well enough from deep.

So unless Mitch starts at C KAT is probably the odd man out since Brunson is god-like and a Nova guy. I think OG is actually undervalued as he can fit on most any team. Yes we overpaid for Bridges and he does fit next to Brunson but I think if we want to upgrade this team it has to be KAT and Bridges.

I think we take Game 5 at home btw!

Really think we missed DDV this post season.

Brunson being treated as god-like is going to be a/the problem going forward - will be interesting to see if front office will make right decisions.

We are seeing some of the issues Becky Hammon pointed to in terms of Jalen and being at that top/top tier.

Are you honestly suggesting trading Brunson lol

I’m suggesting that his play to contract $ may become a major issue in a few years and he takes a significant beating every night.

We have 4 years starting next season to worry about that.

You mean he’s not due for new deal for 4 years? I didn’t realize that - is that right?

The 4 year extension he just signed begins the 2025-26 season.

https://www.nba.com/news/jalen-brunson-knicks-extension

Right but isn't there supposed to be some type of wink/wink that Knicks will re-work his deal in a year or so once the CAP jumps again?

Don’t think JB is going anywhere. Nor should he. Hard to find a guy with the clutch gene like he has. Fact is that he and the Knicks have to get better at combating double teams. Put guys around him that can attack and hurt teams for doing so. As well as JB moving up to another level in Bball IQ and learning how to make better decisions. Think one of the reasons he hurts us on defense(which is something he needs to work on in the off season) is because he works so hard on getting the ball up the floor and getting off his shots.

nycericanguy wrote:

VDesai wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.

Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.

Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.

I think we adjusted to beat Boston, but we're not countering what the Pacers do. They want to wear you down, they want to play faster than you, they want to keep you moving. Its like we played rope a dope all year to beat Boston and then haven't been able to adjust to the fact that we're playing a different team.

Still, to lose 3 at home in this series would be an embarrassment. I think we find a way to win game 5. We never know what to expect from this team, but I don't think they go down with a whimper at home in game 5. From there, you have to find a way to win another on the road and put yourself in a position to host game 7. It absolutely is not impossible...but its also unlikely. But the series has had some close games. We had one of the worst collapses in sports history to not be tied right now. It seems far fetched after last night, but we can win games in this series and keep the season going.

spot on. I feel weirdly confident despite being down 3-1.

I cant see us losing 3 straight at home.

I think game 6 is going to happen and I think it will be an absolute dogfight and we'll have a chance to win it and force what would be a bonkers g7 at MSG.

Only feel confident if we see a HEAVY DOSE of our bench because our starters are all worn down to the nubs already --- need to find a way to drop starter minutes to +32 min range with a heavy and great bench performance in game 5.

Mitch has turned into a pumpkin - get him back on bench or out of rotation

I'd start Wright and put him on Hali full-court, then bring in Deuce/Shamet and also 94 foot pressure all game.

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Let me try to summarize what seems obvious by now (to me)...KAT and Brunson are both great offensive threats but clearly defensively challenged. Playing both at the same time puts too much pressure on Bridges, OG and Hart or whoever else is there to play defense and stand around for kickouts when those two can't iso well. Playing Mitch alongside KAT helps but Mitch has his challenges staying healthy, hitting free throws, etc...

Assuming no significant roster changes it really makes little sense to keep both KAT and Brunson at their salaries and need to both be starters. If KAT could come off the bench and be featured we would probably be more effective as a team overall (but that would not happen). Ironic that we supposedly were considering Myles Turner for like 3 seasons as he would have been better for us because we wouldn't have to hide him defensively and while he's not a potent - he can shoot well enough from deep.

So unless Mitch starts at C KAT is probably the odd man out since Brunson is god-like and a Nova guy. I think OG is actually undervalued as he can fit on most any team. Yes we overpaid for Bridges and he does fit next to Brunson but I think if we want to upgrade this team it has to be KAT and Bridges.

I think we take Game 5 at home btw!

Really think we missed DDV this post season.

Brunson being treated as god-like is going to be a/the problem going forward - will be interesting to see if front office will make right decisions.

We are seeing some of the issues Becky Hammon pointed to in terms of Jalen and being at that top/top tier.

Are you honestly suggesting trading Brunson lol

I’m suggesting that his play to contract $ may become a major issue in a few years and he takes a significant beating every night.

We have 4 years starting next season to worry about that.

You mean he’s not due for new deal for 4 years? I didn’t realize that - is that right?

The 4 year extension he just signed begins the 2025-26 season.

https://www.nba.com/news/jalen-brunson-knicks-extension

Right but isn't there supposed to be some type of wink/wink that Knicks will re-work his deal in a year or so once the CAP jumps again?

I've never heard this. I always heard the suggestion was that he would sign a supermax when this deal is up. But that's all speculation as well, as I doubt he'd push this team out of contention and make them trade guys away just so he could get paid.

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Truthfully this team has looked out of sorts all playoffs and has not really played any great games besides game 6 versus Boston. Every win versus Detroit required some level of clutch heroics and we trailed double digits in most of those and stole them late. Boston we won two games where we got dominated for 3Q. Indy we won a game where we got dominated for 3Q. This team hasn’t played complete games or looked the part of a Finals team at all. It’s been one of the wonkiest playoff runs ever I think anyone would agree with that. I thank them for the exhilarating run but this team isn’t ready and they haven’t looked well coached at all. And frankly Thibs looks absolutely confused with what to do with this roster so he just rides his 5 guys even though they get cooked when they play together.

yea its been an odd run, lots of anxiety.

So the fact we havent really played all that well but are close to the finals can be a good thing, unless you think these starters just cant play elite together and that's also quite possible.

I think it is a good thing and shows this team is really close IMO. And there’s a lot of talent. To get where we got without even playing well speaks for itself. But I just don’t think Brunson and KAT can play championship level defense unless we figure we need one more POA defender to make it work at the 2 guard spot. I’m not smart enough to know if that is the answer or not. I do know that you can’t win a chip when your two best players need to be staggered most of the game because they have a negative net rating together.

This team executes and plays nothing like any championship level team I've ever seen.

Every win has included large patches of discombobulated/dysfunctional and downright poor play -- it's shocking we are still alive when you watch the lethargic and undisciplined way we play. No rhyme or reason of what to expect with flashes of good play overwhelmed with bad mental and physical decisions.

We are literally in the midst of fighting for our playoff lives and almost universally folks everywhere say our best 2 players shouldn't or can't share the floor. In our most crucial minutes of the year -- our coach went to 2 players Shamet/Wright that he had banished to the bench months ago and when those players actually produced he immediately went back to starters who can't defend a paper napkin.

Down 3-1 and we simply watch Pacers run same play over and over again. We had no plan to pressure Hali - no ball pressure, no nothing and in most crucial game of the year we let this cat NOT ONLY torch us for 30 and 15 but we let him grab 10 boards. That's 10 boards mostly defensive where Hali beat the likes of Kat/Mitch/OG/Josh/Mikal to the rebound. And so little pressure he had ZERO TO's.

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.

Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.

Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.

We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.

I'd say our team can't guard Hali/Siakim not our forwards. I suspect is Brunson/Kat and YES Josh Hart defended at an even average level both OG/Mikal D would look significantly improved.

We are basically having to plug 3 holes in the damn every time we run our starters out there on D.

Even if everyone is in position and guarding Hart will fall asleep and get backdoor cut with 1 second on the 24.

I agree but I do think our forwards struggle to match up with the speed of Hali, McConnell, Nembhard, Nesmith. They were built to match Tatum and Brown. But these guys are smaller, faster, and whip the ball around much more. Deuce and Wright and Shamet defend them much better.

I agree on the latter 3 defending them better -- though Deuce last night laid an egg on both ends.

This series outside of game 1 and 5 minutes of Nesmith has really been a Hali/Siakim laden series where we've failed to stop one or the other. Nothing new though our D has been an issue all year - outside of maybe Game 6 vs Celtics our D has been slightly up then way down.

DLeethal wrote:

Chandler wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

ToddTT wrote:Losing sucks. Losing to a massive douche is salt in the wound.

Yea, but this team clearly isn’t ready. Can’t skip steps. This is not a Finals team. Indiana actually looks like one.

we will probably lose the series of course. But I continue to think we are the more talented team. This is on the coaches. I am still dumbfounded that the Pacers and Celts can hide weak defenders but we can't. And the Pacers and Celts can exploit our weak defenders but we can't seem to exploit theirs (for the most part).

KAT may be a liability on defense but he is not a dummy by any means. Wondering if adding a coach like Malone in some capacity would benefit things. Get KAT more effective on D, Leverage his passing more.

We are 100% more talented. But Indiana has years of chemistry build up. It’s the same team they had last year and the year before. They are just way better now. Same way Cavs got way better over the years. Knicks can do that too, although I don’t advocate for keeping this core intact if they can’t play defense.

THIS

Not sure where to start but I'll start with Thibs. He did not have a good game or series. Still no answer on defense for Indiana's speed. The turnovers just killed us. Our offense takes too long to get started and a lot of shot attempts end up with the shot clock about to expire. It's just too hard to score right now and it seems like it's too easy for Indiana. The lineups and strategy and whatever Thibs is doing to spark some energy and focus into this team isn't good enough. The way we came out to start the third was embarrassing.

Next comes JB, whom I love, but he needs to be better. He should not be deferring to Mikal in the fourth quarter. He needs to be himself and attack! Especially in the fourth. Totally fine with him trying to get his teammates involved early but late in the game, he needs to be Mr. Clutch. And he needs to simply try harder on defense.

Most disappointed in Hart and Mikal. I love Hart to death and I will always support him no matter what he's the heart and soul of the team and I know he cares and nobody is feeling worse about his game than he is but **** that was a brutal game. Uncharacteristic turnovers that just killed us and he got beat back door and one on one it seems every time. Hart had a bad game. It happens to every player. He'll bounce back tomorrow. Mikal was also brutal and has been brutal in this series. I know his stat sheet says 17 points and 4/5 from three but so what? His defense, if you want to call it that, on Haliburton was some of the weakest, softest, unacceptable attempts I've ever seen. Mikal died on every screen, lost him in transition and made almost no effort to stay in front of him. I was screaming for Thibs to try someone else cause it wasn't working.

KAT was also disappointing even though he ended up with 24 and 12. Hoping his knee isn't swelling today or else we are in big trouble. I know it's the unpopular opinion but I'd go back to Mitch on the bench. He just isn't impacting the game the same was he was off the bench. Tony Bradley has done a good job of slowing him down which is surprising. Shamet and Wright played well and brought defense but it sucks cause they don't bring anything else to the table and we need to keep up with the Pacers scoring.

But give the Hicks credit. Haliburton was outstanding. I hope this he's overrated and not a super star crap ends now cause he's elite. Mathurin woke up and had a big impact and Nesmith continues to be a pain in the ass. And of course Calisle is pushing all the right buttons. They deserve to be up 3-1. Choked game one or not.

Series is not over and I still believe and fully expect us to bounce back tomorrow in game five. But JB needs to be better than Haliburton, KAT needs to better than Siakim and Hart/OG/Deuce needs to be better than Nesmith/McConnell/Mathurin. And most of all, Thibs needs to be better than Carlisle.