martin wrote:Teams get penalized for the 3rd year they in the second apron?

Maybe the Knicks KNOW they will be in the second apron when Jalen finally gets his extension (2 years from now while Knicks current starters will still be in their prime). Maybe that plan that far out and are fearing THAT and want to do everything they can now to keep the boys together?

"3 out of 5 years" rule over the 2nd Apron. If a team's payroll finishes above the second apron threshold for any three seasons within a five-year window, their future first-round draft pick is automatically moved to the very end of the first round. Some here are overlooking the Cap/Apron situation which will greatly impact the Knicks starting in the 2027-28 Season. This is likely why they are trying to remain under the 2nd Apron this season.

By my math, unless they make a move to trade one of the core 5 Players - they will have ~$22M to fill out 7-8 Roster Spots in 2027, which makes the 2nd Apron almost unavoidable. This does not include extension impacts for KAT & Hart. If for instance KAT takes a discount, it will give us more room, but still very likely over the 2nd Apron. In 2028 it will likely get worse with JB's extension.

Returning 2027 Salary
1 KAT $61.02 (PO)
2 OG $45.43
3 JB $40.54
4 Mikal $36.16
5 Hart $22.38 (TO)
6 Kolek $2.49 (TO)
7 Mo $3.00 estimated

Sub-Total $211.00

2nd Apron $233.00
Remaining $22.00

This does not include any multi-year deals signed this off-season (i.e. Deuce, Alvarado, Mitch, Huk, Shamet, Clarkson, McCullar.

Assumption - If Pacome is on the roster for next season, unless he takes a significant jump, I don't see him returning as his Team Option is $5.3M.

So to sum up. If the Knicks re-sign Mitch to say a multi-year deal @15M per season, they will likely be over the cap from 2026-2028 which would incur the 3 year Apron rule -or be forced to trade away or separate from core 5 players.

martin wrote:

martin wrote:Teams get penalized for the 3rd year they in the second apron?

Maybe the Knicks KNOW they will be in the second apron when Jalen finally gets his extension (2 years from now while Knicks current starters will still be in their prime). Maybe that plan that far out and are fearing THAT and want to do everything they can now to keep the boys together?

Kinda sorta makes sense?

Knicks fans are wondering why the Knicks are so resistant to go over the second apron considering they just won a chip and therefore dont necessarily need their MLE or the ability to aggregate salaries in trades etc bc the team is essentially a finished product

My guess is that its because Jalen Brunson will be extension eligible in 2 years where he is going to be eligible for 5/400mm (80mm per year)

My guess is that they are planning to go over the second apron for the 2 years after he signs his extension (cant do 3 out of any consecutive 5 years or your pick 7 years out which could be lottery drops to 30)

If they were to go over the second apron this year, with JBs extension looming, it would jeopardize their draft pick in 2033 (7 years out) which is the only major trade asset they have left

Staying under second apron while JB is on his discount, and waiting until he gets the bag to go above the second apron extends the championship window of this team to around 2030 (2 years in second apron after extension and keeps our pick out of jeopardy)

Makes sense to me

Stay under while have him on discount

Go over when he gets paid

Save the pick/asset, extend the window

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/Arifromanhattan/status/2070514020944167078

Exactly, Knicks must hold out on going into the 2nd apron until KAT, HART, BRUNSON, OG all are extended.
Or they go into the 2nd apron now and then blow up the team once Brunson is due for extension.
The former allows for an extended window all the way up to 2030, while the latter's window is up to 2028.
I believe with a 4 year window Rose would be able to retool for another chip even without Mitch & Shamet if that was the case.

martin wrote:

martin wrote:Teams get penalized for the 3rd year they in the second apron?

Maybe the Knicks KNOW they will be in the second apron when Jalen finally gets his extension (2 years from now while Knicks current starters will still be in their prime). Maybe that plan that far out and are fearing THAT and want to do everything they can now to keep the boys together?

Kinda sorta makes sense?

Knicks fans are wondering why the Knicks are so resistant to go over the second apron considering they just won a chip and therefore dont necessarily need their MLE or the ability to aggregate salaries in trades etc bc the team is essentially a finished product

My guess is that its because Jalen Brunson will be extension eligible in 2 years where he is going to be eligible for 5/400mm (80mm per year)

My guess is that they are planning to go over the second apron for the 2 years after he signs his extension (cant do 3 out of any consecutive 5 years or your pick 7 years out which could be lottery drops to 30)

If they were to go over the second apron this year, with JBs extension looming, it would jeopardize their draft pick in 2033 (7 years out) which is the only major trade asset they have left

Staying under second apron while JB is on his discount, and waiting until he gets the bag to go above the second apron extends the championship window of this team to around 2030 (2 years in second apron after extension and keeps our pick out of jeopardy)

Makes sense to me

Stay under while have him on discount

Go over when he gets paid

Save the pick/asset, extend the window

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/Arifromanhattan/status/2070514020944167078

I haven't listened to the pod myself, but I guess Katz has suggested that the FO was "blindsided" by Dolan 's comments about not going into the 2nd? I'm hoping that everyone's on the same page and we're not scrambling to plan B to stay under because of Dolan.

https://heavy.com/sports/nba/new-york-knicks/front-office-blindsided-james-dolan-mandate/

On the most recent episode of the Katz and Shoot podcast, The Athletic’s Fred Katz and guest James Edwards (two of the most plugged-in reporters on the New York Knicks beat) revealed that the front office was caught off guard by Dolan’s comments.

“The not going into the second apron stuff, the front office did not advise that. It was not like the front office went to Dolan and was like, ‘No, it’s strategically helpful to not go into the second apron.’ That didn’t happen.” Katz reported.

“Dolan went on the radio, said they’re not going into the second apron. And then there were people in the Knicks who were like, ‘Wait, what?’ The Knicks front office understands that if they don’t go into the second apron, they’re going to lose guys.”

“People were blindsided,” Edwards added.

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Teams get penalized for the 3rd year they in the second apron?

Maybe the Knicks KNOW they will be in the second apron when Jalen finally gets his extension (2 years from now while Knicks current starters will still be in their prime). Maybe that plan that far out and are fearing THAT and want to do everything they can now to keep the boys together?

"3 out of 5 years" rule over the 2nd Apron. If a team's payroll finishes above the second apron threshold for any three seasons within a five-year window, their future first-round draft pick is automatically moved to the very end of the first round. Some here are overlooking the Cap/Apron situation which will greatly impact the Knicks starting in the 2027-28 Season. This is likely why they are trying to remain under the 2nd Apron this season.

By my math, unless they make a move to trade one of the core 5 Players - they will have ~$22M to fill out 7-8 Roster Spots in 2027, which makes the 2nd Apron almost unavoidable. This does not include extension impacts for KAT & Hart. If for instance KAT takes a discount, it will give us more room, but still very likely over the 2nd Apron. In 2028 it will likely get worse with JB's extension.

Returning 2027 Salary
1 KAT $61.02 (PO)
2 OG $45.43
3 JB $40.54
4 Mikal $36.16
5 Hart $22.38 (TO)
6 Kolek $2.49 (TO)
7 Mo $3.00 estimated

Sub-Total $211.00

2nd Apron $233.00
Remaining $22.00

This does not include any multi-year deals signed this off-season (i.e. Deuce, Alvarado, Mitch, Huk, Shamet, Clarkson, McCullar.

Assumption - If Pacome is on the roster for next season, unless he takes a significant jump, I don't see him returning as his Team Option is $5.3M.

So to sum up. If the Knicks re-sign Mitch to say a multi-year deal @15M per season, they will likely be over the cap from 2026-2028 which would incur the 3 year Apron rule -or be forced to trade away or separate from core 5 players.

KAT won't be making $61m, he likely gets extended around $45m per.

Hart will be going on 34, he won't be making $22m either, we can extend him maybe 3 years 50m and bring his cap hit to around $16m.

those 2 moves alone would shave off over $20m.

aggo wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:Teams get penalized for the 3rd year they in the second apron?

Maybe the Knicks KNOW they will be in the second apron when Jalen finally gets his extension (2 years from now while Knicks current starters will still be in their prime). Maybe that plan that far out and are fearing THAT and want to do everything they can now to keep the boys together?

"3 out of 5 years" rule over the 2nd Apron. If a team's payroll finishes above the second apron threshold for any three seasons within a five-year window, their future first-round draft pick is automatically moved to the very end of the first round. Some here are overlooking the Cap/Apron situation which will greatly impact the Knicks starting in the 2027-28 Season. This is likely why they are trying to remain under the 2nd Apron this season.

By my math, unless they make a move to trade one of the core 5 Players - they will have ~$22M to fill out 7-8 Roster Spots in 2027, which makes the 2nd Apron almost unavoidable. This does not include extension impacts for KAT & Hart. If for instance KAT takes a discount, it will give us more room, but still very likely over the 2nd Apron. In 2028 it will likely get worse with JB's extension.

Returning 2027 Salary
1 KAT $61.02 (PO)
2 OG $45.43
3 JB $40.54
4 Mikal $36.16
5 Hart $22.38 (TO)
6 Kolek $2.49 (TO)
7 Mo $3.00 estimated

Sub-Total $211.00

2nd Apron $233.00
Remaining $22.00

This does not include any multi-year deals signed this off-season (i.e. Deuce, Alvarado, Mitch, Huk, Shamet, Clarkson, McCullar.

Assumption - If Pacome is on the roster for next season, unless he takes a significant jump, I don't see him returning as his Team Option is $5.3M.

So to sum up. If the Knicks re-sign Mitch to say a multi-year deal @15M per season, they will likely be over the cap from 2026-2028 which would incur the 3 year Apron rule -or be forced to trade away or separate from core 5 players.

KAT won't be making $61m, he likely gets extended around $45m per.

Hart will be going on 34, he won't be making $22m either, we can extend him maybe 3 years 50m and bring his cap hit to around $16m.

those 2 moves alone would shave off over $20m.

if trae young got 4/212

why would KAT accept less?

he will give a discount im sure but hes not going to take a pay cut where he goes from 57m to 45m

Trae is younger... but that's also the Wizards tax in affect probably.

KAT isn't giving a "discount", that's his market value, do you think any team is going to offer KAT $55m over 3-4 years at age 32-35 seasons?

If this is the case Dolan double f ucked us with the draft as we had multiple options to get a replacement. You would think this would have been conveyed all season. With this understanding.

Now that we won a chip the dickbag is back to running the show .

Please Leon don’t leave us ! Leon’s got to be furious. Wouldn’t be surprised if this leads to his resignation.

What an embarrassment.

It is absolutely not what I would have done. He's not a pg, consumes way too much time with the ball, gambles too much on defense, and can't really defend larger guards. His primary strength is bringing energy

All that said, it could be the case that he's super-glue guy and locker room favorite.

all the more worried about Mitch and Shamet return

BlueKnickers wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I was OK until I checked his stats on basketball reference. Sure, small sample size, garbage time minutes yadda yadda yadda, but it seems like everyone else on the team from McCullar to Jemison at least had a quarter where they really seemed to shine.

Brown wasn't shy about reaching deep down in his bench, but for whatever reason, even down 2 forwards to injury Dadiet never got a chance to play meaningful minutes. This isn't Thibs not playing Obi or IQ enough. I can't see any reason in not playing one of the very few deep bench guys with another guaranteed year other than him not contributing to winning basketball.

TLDR: he sucks.

This is absolutely the wrong take. Deuce is a prime example of it.

The Knicks are developing players and their own starters this past year. When that happens for someone like Dadiet, development is prioritized above the playing time when you have other players on the team that can fill that role and also perhaps the player is not ready and the Knicks just know it.

It still could be that Dadiet does not pan out but to assume he sucks and also consider he could have been moved a long time ago, that seems like a crossroads that does not make sense.

The Knicks FO seems to have indicated to the beat writers right here something that you bypass. I don't know if you can't see this clip or not:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/KnicksFanTv/status/2070241164385542181

I agree. If the Knicks actually felt he had no upside, he would not have been with the club a second season. He'd have been moved or given a ticket back to France.

We've only seen him in garbage time and he shows he has the tools to score and maybe defend as well. He's done it in G League naturally.

Dadiet has a very light feel to his presence on the floor. I don't know if it is because he's going to be a silky smooth player or if he is perhaps not completely assertive yet, but it feels like he is gliding around the court. Can't put my finger on it yet or characterize it as a positive or negative vibe yet.

Mostly, I don't think we've seen him play extended minutes in a regular game outside garbage time to have a strong sense of his current or future levels, but he clearly can shoot and move well enough.

Dadiet, I can’t figure out yet… Is he Kevin Knox 2.0 or is he a young Paul George? He needs minutes, like ian said there’s 2 sides to the coin, will he get a path to minutes here … probably not … now that Jose is back the same could be said for Kolek … can we package them up for a big ? I want to keep Kolek but I bet the Jose signing doesn’t sit well with him.

aggo wrote:Go get Drummond

The issue is such a downgrade to Mitch defensively and as an offensive rebounder. What about Robert Williams if healthy ?

I’m really disappointed in all the reports about Mitch … the one that really got me was one stating that the front office was pleading with Dolan, because they know how important Mitch is. Like vs a team like Cleveland, or vs Joel and the 76ers

Mitch is an absolute defensive stud who can switch on anyone, force turnovers and guard the perimeter. Stuff that just doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. He is a glue big, who makes everyone around him better. Without Mitch this whole team suffers.

This team will be devastated by him walking away . We were not the same team without him, the only guy that comes close to his production is Robert Williams who you might get on a vet min deal … anyone else is either a has been or to slow, or just a different player

Yes Mitch isn’t perfect but he’s also the best offensive rebounder in the league … when he’s on the court the guys know we are getting second and third opportunities and on defense he’s a absolute beast. I freaking love Mitch. I don’t care about the free throws he’s like a bigger Rodman.