smackeddog wrote:Why do people say Melo sucks because he's not as good as two of the best players in the nba, Durant and Lebron, as if thats proof!? Ridiculous.

It's amazing we've gone 72-34 with such a terrible coach and franchise player.

No one has said this, but since he isnt better than those two...how do have a better shot at beating one and maybe facing the other?

Dont try to do it alone.

Lebron could single handedly beat a team, but he doesnt do that...he trust the guys on the floor to make it easier for him...then he dominates late.

Melo wants to dominate the whole game...thats nearly impossible to do in the playofs.

Try to do it alone and you dont even the shot to beat the best...like last year.

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:talent or skill? can't leave out mindset either.

durant has enjoyed a steady trend upwards his entire career in terms of scoring efficiency as well as playmaking. we have all read that this is what he wanted to work on and we have all heard jvg say many times "see, this is what he needs to do to make that next step-- be a playmaker for others." it has been said when we see durant in the lane drawing contact and trying to put up a little contested 5-7 footer instead of finding an open teammate, be it a cutter or a perimeter guy. part of the challenge is his leaving his feet, and really only lebron james has been able to get away with that. still, durant WANTS to be make those plays. the issue is court vision as well, of course.

if durant can learn to find someone more and more in those situations instead of trying to draw a foul (which is a good alternative in terms of TS% as it is) then he will eventually be able to challenge lebron james for the most part. where he will likely fall short is as a defender compared with lebron james.

carmelo anthony? we have witnessed no such steady trend upwards. his game has remained the same-- stagnant really.

people want to always place responsibility on carmelo anthony's "supporting casts" but you can't keep using that excuse year after year without also acknowledging that this guy's game really has not gotten any better year after year either.

some people want to say that melo has been to the playoffs every year whereas durant missed the first two years. who has had the better career? who has evolved?

DK, my thing is that Melo is what he is and we all know what he is. He scores. Hes not Lebron. Hes not Durant. I dont get why get so surprised when he doesnt put up their stats. Are you expecting him to become as good as they are?

not everybody knows that, teamball, including and especially carmelo anthony!

i never expected him to become as good which is why i maintained from the very beginning that it would not be good to acquire him through a trade. free agency okay but not a trade. he needs to have better players than the knicks can provide and the knicks have not been in a position to provide such players since the trade itself. and lets leave specific names out of this for a change-- it's the principal of the thing.

he is a secondary player not a primary one.

Durant developed what imo Melo has already...Melo just wont do it.

Giving up the ball because the defense collapsed on him is not playmaking.

Playmaking is having the mindset that the shot attempt likely wont be your own.

durant understands this now, lebron already knew it......Melo actually has the talent, but not the mindset.

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:talent or skill? can't leave out mindset either.

durant has enjoyed a steady trend upwards his entire career in terms of scoring efficiency as well as playmaking. we have all read that this is what he wanted to work on and we have all heard jvg say many times "see, this is what he needs to do to make that next step-- be a playmaker for others." it has been said when we see durant in the lane drawing contact and trying to put up a little contested 5-7 footer instead of finding an open teammate, be it a cutter or a perimeter guy. part of the challenge is his leaving his feet, and really only lebron james has been able to get away with that. still, durant WANTS to be make those plays. the issue is court vision as well, of course.

if durant can learn to find someone more and more in those situations instead of trying to draw a foul (which is a good alternative in terms of TS% as it is) then he will eventually be able to challenge lebron james for the most part. where he will likely fall short is as a defender compared with lebron james.

carmelo anthony? we have witnessed no such steady trend upwards. his game has remained the same-- stagnant really.

people want to always place responsibility on carmelo anthony's "supporting casts" but you can't keep using that excuse year after year without also acknowledging that this guy's game really has not gotten any better year after year either.

some people want to say that melo has been to the playoffs every year whereas durant missed the first two years. who has had the better career? who has evolved?

DK, my thing is that Melo is what he is and we all know what he is. He scores. Hes not Lebron. Hes not Durant. I dont get why get so surprised when he doesnt put up their stats. Are you expecting him to become as good as they are?

not everybody knows that, teamball, including and especially carmelo anthony!

i never expected him to become as good which is why i maintained from the very beginning that it would not be good to acquire him through a trade. free agency okay but not a trade. he needs to have better players than the knicks can provide and the knicks have not been in a position to provide such players since the trade itself. and lets leave specific names out of this for a change-- it's the principal of the thing.

he is a secondary player not a primary one.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:talent or skill? can't leave out mindset either.

durant has enjoyed a steady trend upwards his entire career in terms of scoring efficiency as well as playmaking. we have all read that this is what he wanted to work on and we have all heard jvg say many times "see, this is what he needs to do to make that next step-- be a playmaker for others." it has been said when we see durant in the lane drawing contact and trying to put up a little contested 5-7 footer instead of finding an open teammate, be it a cutter or a perimeter guy. part of the challenge is his leaving his feet, and really only lebron james has been able to get away with that. still, durant WANTS to be make those plays. the issue is court vision as well, of course.

if durant can learn to find someone more and more in those situations instead of trying to draw a foul (which is a good alternative in terms of TS% as it is) then he will eventually be able to challenge lebron james for the most part. where he will likely fall short is as a defender compared with lebron james.

carmelo anthony? we have witnessed no such steady trend upwards. his game has remained the same-- stagnant really.

people want to always place responsibility on carmelo anthony's "supporting casts" but you can't keep using that excuse year after year without also acknowledging that this guy's game really has not gotten any better year after year either.

some people want to say that melo has been to the playoffs every year whereas durant missed the first two years. who has had the better career? who has evolved?

DK, my thing is that Melo is what he is and we all know what he is. He scores. Hes not Lebron. Hes not Durant. I dont get why get so surprised when he doesnt put up their stats. Are you expecting him to become as good as they are?

not everybody knows that, teamball, including and especially carmelo anthony!

i never expected him to become as good which is why i maintained from the very beginning that it would not be good to acquire him through a trade. free agency okay but not a trade. he needs to have better players than the knicks can provide and the knicks have not been in a position to provide such players since the trade itself. and lets leave specific names out of this for a change-- it's the principal of the thing.

he is a secondary player not a primary one.

Isn't that you sort of agreeing with the "Melo needs more help" argument?

i dont agree with alot of his thinking, but i do understand it.

knickscity wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:talent or skill? can't leave out mindset either.

durant has enjoyed a steady trend upwards his entire career in terms of scoring efficiency as well as playmaking. we have all read that this is what he wanted to work on and we have all heard jvg say many times "see, this is what he needs to do to make that next step-- be a playmaker for others." it has been said when we see durant in the lane drawing contact and trying to put up a little contested 5-7 footer instead of finding an open teammate, be it a cutter or a perimeter guy. part of the challenge is his leaving his feet, and really only lebron james has been able to get away with that. still, durant WANTS to be make those plays. the issue is court vision as well, of course.

if durant can learn to find someone more and more in those situations instead of trying to draw a foul (which is a good alternative in terms of TS% as it is) then he will eventually be able to challenge lebron james for the most part. where he will likely fall short is as a defender compared with lebron james.

carmelo anthony? we have witnessed no such steady trend upwards. his game has remained the same-- stagnant really.

people want to always place responsibility on carmelo anthony's "supporting casts" but you can't keep using that excuse year after year without also acknowledging that this guy's game really has not gotten any better year after year either.

some people want to say that melo has been to the playoffs every year whereas durant missed the first two years. who has had the better career? who has evolved?

DK, my thing is that Melo is what he is and we all know what he is. He scores. Hes not Lebron. Hes not Durant. I dont get why get so surprised when he doesnt put up their stats. Are you expecting him to become as good as they are?

not everybody knows that, teamball, including and especially carmelo anthony!

i never expected him to become as good which is why i maintained from the very beginning that it would not be good to acquire him through a trade. free agency okay but not a trade. he needs to have better players than the knicks can provide and the knicks have not been in a position to provide such players since the trade itself. and lets leave specific names out of this for a change-- it's the principal of the thing.

he is a secondary player not a primary one.

Isn't that you sort of agreeing with the "Melo needs more help" argument?

I think DK believes the team and Melo arent good enough....separate pieces but one entity, where as alot of fans believe the team isnt good enough...yet melo is....dk also doesnt believe melo should be the best player on a team with title hopes.

i dont agree with alot of his thinking, but i do understand it.

smackeddog wrote:

knickscity wrote:
Even though the Thunder is an exception, i hope you're not seriously saying you wouldnt want their success.

They're success seems to be exaggerated. We win 54 games and it's talked about as if it was nothing because we lost in the second round. Thunder over the past 4 years have won: 50, 55, 47*,60. Their playoff record is: 1st round exit, conference finals exit (4-1), finals exit (4-1) and second round exit (4-1). I think that's good going, but whenever we fall short of a championship people act like the entire season was a failure- why isn't that same daft standard applied to the Thunder?

Now once they trade harden, even though i think he is overrated some, the guy was important to them making the finals and i knew they would fall back a round....westbrooks injury though ended their season...just a matter of when.

But since the Thunder has been a team in okc, the knicks success has not been anywhere on the planet with them.

The Knicks have had one good year, and lost to an opponent they were favored to beat.

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Why do people say Melo sucks because he's not as good as two of the best players in the nba, Durant and Lebron, as if thats proof!? Ridiculous.

It's amazing we've gone 72-34 with such a terrible coach and franchise player.

We are a glorified version of the Hawks of the past decade - a good team that won't win a championship and probably won't ever make it out of the 2nd round. Some people would prefer to rebuild until we have a championship contending core. Others just want a fun competitive team. Maybe that answers your question.

I think this rebuild obsession is getting stale- how many championships have the Thunder won? They're about to start declining slightly, in my opinion.

I honestly would rather remain competitive and try and get better every year, and work at it than deliberately suck, in the hope you get a top pick, in the hope its a good draft, in the hope the player pans out, in the hope you can build a team around them , but at the same time they're not too good in their first season so that you suck enough in the hope that you can then draft another player the following year, in the hope that it's a good draft, in the hope that player develops, in the hope they complement the first player, in the hope you can surround them, with the right pieces, in the hope that you keep the team together, in the hope they don't get injured, in the hope they win a championship.

I don't like this newish mentality that it's better not to try, or that there's something wrong with always making the playoffs- imagine if back in the 90s we decided not to bother and tank in the hope maybe we get lucky and draft a player to complement Ewing.

Even though the Thunder is an exception, i hope you're not seriously saying you wouldnt want their success.

The Thunder's "decline" is no worse than our present best, and their "decline" is cba inflicted and their location.

The dont trade harden if they were in nyc.....the again NY fans are patient enough to have a team suck for a minute, which all the champs have done.

Boston was terrible for a minute...Miami was as well, all the contenders took a step back to develop at least one player.

But anyway, the thing with the draft is most champions have a drafted piece that makes impact, as do the contenders.

As a fan I do hope Shumpert can make that elevation....the drafted piece.

That's not entirely true. It is more owner related than CBA related. They still have their amnesty to use but I guess they will let that run out. They could have easily kept Harden and amnestied Perkins. They could have re-signed Martin but they let him go, so they lose a chip that they got in the Harden trade. They are what about 5 million under the tax apron. Guess who fits if they amnestied Perkins?

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Why do people say Melo sucks because he's not as good as two of the best players in the nba, Durant and Lebron, as if thats proof!? Ridiculous.

It's amazing we've gone 72-34 with such a terrible coach and franchise player.

We are a glorified version of the Hawks of the past decade - a good team that won't win a championship and probably won't ever make it out of the 2nd round. Some people would prefer to rebuild until we have a championship contending core. Others just want a fun competitive team. Maybe that answers your question.

I think this rebuild obsession is getting stale- how many championships have the Thunder won? They're about to start declining slightly, in my opinion.

I honestly would rather remain competitive and try and get better every year, and work at it than deliberately suck, in the hope you get a top pick, in the hope its a good draft, in the hope the player pans out, in the hope you can build a team around them , but at the same time they're not too good in their first season so that you suck enough in the hope that you can then draft another player the following year, in the hope that it's a good draft, in the hope that player develops, in the hope they complement the first player, in the hope you can surround them, with the right pieces, in the hope that you keep the team together, in the hope they don't get injured, in the hope they win a championship.

I don't like this newish mentality that it's better not to try, or that there's something wrong with always making the playoffs- imagine if back in the 90s we decided not to bother and tank in the hope maybe we get lucky and draft a player to complement Ewing.

Even though the Thunder is an exception, i hope you're not seriously saying you wouldnt want their success.

The Thunder's "decline" is no worse than our present best, and their "decline" is cba inflicted and their location.

The dont trade harden if they were in nyc.....the again NY fans are patient enough to have a team suck for a minute, which all the champs have done.

Boston was terrible for a minute...Miami was as well, all the contenders took a step back to develop at least one player.

But anyway, the thing with the draft is most champions have a drafted piece that makes impact, as do the contenders.

As a fan I do hope Shumpert can make that elevation....the drafted piece.

That's not entirely true. It is more owner related than CBA related. They still have their amnesty to use but I guess they will let that run out. They could have easily kept Harden and amnestied Perkins. They could have re-signed Martin but they let him go, so they lose a chip that they got in the Harden trade. They are what about 5 million under the tax apron. Guess who fits if they amnestied Perkins?

They made a choice between harden and ibaka, and may have made the wrong choice, perkins has nothing to do with it.

It's easy to not have the checkbook and say what an owner should do.

hell, i want the Knicks to buy out amare and stretch his dough, but it's not my money.