mrKnickShot wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.

I hope that in the full Hannah Storm Interview Melo tells us why he intentionally missed shot for MDA. He said that he is working harder for Woodson, so me being a dummy who does not know or understand context believe that he was DEFINITELY missing shots on purpose and that is just SO SO WRONG!

Melo may not have been able to fix his shot or level of fitness early in the season, but when he came back for that 10 game stretch after Linsanity where the team went 2-8 with him back, Melo could easily have played harder and that would've made a huge difference in W/L over that stretch. That's the key part that really made a huge difference for Woody. He got the best Melo had in terms of effort, which as we saw was more important than his scoring at 1st. Now he's on a hot streak much as he was at the end of last year, even better perhaps.

ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.

Any coach who chooses to run an offense thru a guy who has been in the D League within the last year versus a player with the talent to play the best basketball in the league the last three week is not a good coach..I would submit very far from it..

CrushAlot wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.

I disagree. When he won in Phoenix he had a ton of talent. I also think he is a roster specific coach and the most important component to his team having success is having a point guard that can create in a free flow situation. He had the best guy in the league doing that in Phoenix. He lost an awful lot in NY both with talented and less talented teams. Management was headed in a different direction, building a more traditional roster. I think they gave him the year to see what he could do with the team. He struggled and unlike with Walsh, guys that were a part of the managements plan for the team were not going to get moved if they didn't fit with the coaches style/system. Also, I do think guys bought in and I don't think the coach communicated to them that there was a problem. I really think some players, i.e. dream teamers, think that D'Antoni is just a laid back, cool guy that doesn't sweat stuff. In reality I think he was wound pretty tight and struggled with communication. That's just my take on the coach and it might be wrong.

Those PHX teams were not as loaded as you make them out to be. His 1st year that team had a good talent level, but those teams were never the best talent wise. You had Nash at point and STAT at C and we all know how poor of a defender he is, regardless of who is coaching him.
The rest of MDA's rosters defended very well which is why his teams won so much. You can't win with only offense!!! You can't make it to the WCF's against the best talent if you aren't doing something very right.

The best example of his coaching was in 2005-06 when he led his team to 54 wins and the WCF's with Nash, Marion, Bell, T. Thomas & Diaw. Is that a championship team in anyone's opinion? Well they almost got there!!! Look at the teams depth and where the production came from in the Playoffs that year:

Player 	     Age  G   MP  FG  FGA  3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB  AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS  FG%   3P%    FT%   MP    PTS   TRB   AST
Nash 	     31   20  798 146 291  32 87  83 91   9  73   204 8    5   67 38 407 .502   .368   .912  39.9  20.4  3.7   10.2
Marion 	     27   20  849 163 333  22 70  59 67   57 233  31  37   23  22 65 407 .489   .314   .881  42.5  20.4  11.7  1.6
Diaw 	     23   20  796 152 289  3  7   67 88   39 133  104 18   22  55 64 374 .526   .429   .761  39.8  18.7  6.7   5.2
T Thomas     28   20  636 108 220  48 108 38 49   16 126  25  18   8   22 90 302 .491   .444   .776  31.8  15.1  6.3   1.3
Barbosa      23   20  632 103 219  27 69  50 58   5  32   54  15   4   29 66 283 .470   .391   .862  31.6  14.2  1.6   2.7
Bell 	     29   17  673 79  165  40 86  34 41   8  48   37  11   4   10 70 232 .479   .465   .829  39.6  13.6  2.8   2.2
J.Jones      25   20  353 28  82   8  26  22 26   16 72   5   5    18  9  25 86  .341   .308   .846  17.7  4.3   3.6   0.3
House 	     27   14  130 19  52   3  14  3  4 	  0  9 	  6   1    2   5  10 44  .365   .214   .750  9.3   3.1   0.6   0.4
Burke 	     32   3   7   2   4    1  2   0  1 	  1  3 	  0   0    1   0  0  5   .500   .500   .000  2.3   1.7   1.0   0.0
B. Grant     33   5   12  1   3    0  0   0  2 	  2  2 	  0   0    0   0  7  2   .333   .000    ---  2.4   0.4   0.4   0.0
Tskitishvili 22   4   8   0   3    0  1   1  2    0  1 	  2   0    0   1  1  1 	 .000 	.000   .500  2.0   0.3   0.3   0.5
K. Thomas    33   1   6   0   0    0   0  1  2 	  0  1 	  0   0    0   0  2  1 	 .500                6.0   1.0   1.0   0.0

MDA isn't the best coach in the NBA, but he's shown he can be a good coach if you don't hamper him, which was a huge problem here in NY. All the change of roster and the shift in direction from management. Still with all of that, if he had the teams best player on his side he could've found success. There's no doubt that if Melo didn't like Woody he'd be toast and wouldn't have won as much since taking over.

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.

I hope that in the full Hannah Storm Interview Melo tells us why he intentionally missed shot for MDA. He said that he is working harder for Woodson, so me being a dummy who does not know or understand context believe that he was DEFINITELY missing shots on purpose and that is just SO SO WRONG!

Melo may not have been able to fix his shot or level of fitness early in the season, but when he came back for that 10 game stretch after Linsanity where the team went 2-8 with him back, Melo could easily have played harder and that would've made a huge difference in W/L over that stretch. That's the key part that really made a huge difference for Woody. He got the best Melo had in terms of effort, which as we saw was more important than his scoring at 1st. Now he's on a hot streak much as he was at the end of last year, even better perhaps.

Melo played extremely hard vs. The Celts to start the road trip. Made two consecutive potential game winners. MDA lost that game....

FoeDiddy wrote:
That's a pretty good team if you ask me. On top of that Nash was the MVP 2 times remember. He was a beast. as long as you had shooters and finishers around him he was gonna do his thing. To me that teams success is a testament to Nash's greatness. Look at the scrub team he is carrying now and is close to getting them in at 37 years of age.

LOL, why hold MDA to the standard that he had everything he wanted and still couldn't get it done. The best point guard in the league, defenders that shoot, the 6th man, with shooters on the bench. That is exactly the team he wanted, can't cry about it in hindsight.

Nobody cares about Mike Martz these days. He's a very good coordinator and the only injury that would test his offensive genius is if he didn't have a very good point guard. With a more balanced and talented squad this year he failed to make it work. That's all you need to know about ole Mikey IMO.

FoeDiddy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.

I disagree. When he won in Phoenix he had a ton of talent. I also think he is a roster specific coach and the most important component to his team having success is having a point guard that can create in a free flow situation. He had the best guy in the league doing that in Phoenix. He lost an awful lot in NY both with talented and less talented teams. Management was headed in a different direction, building a more traditional roster. I think they gave him the year to see what he could do with the team. He struggled and unlike with Walsh, guys that were a part of the managements plan for the team were not going to get moved if they didn't fit with the coaches style/system. Also, I do think guys bought in and I don't think the coach communicated to them that there was a problem. I really think some players, i.e. dream teamers, think that D'Antoni is just a laid back, cool guy that doesn't sweat stuff. In reality I think he was wound pretty tight and struggled with communication. That's just my take on the coach and it might be wrong.

Those PHX teams were not as loaded as you make them out to be. His 1st year that team had a good talent level, but those teams were never the best talent wise. You had Nash at point and STAT at C and we all know how poor of a defender he is, regardless of who is coaching him.
The rest of MDA's rosters defended very well which is why his teams won so much. You can't win with only offense!!! You can't make it to the WCF's against the best talent if you aren't doing something very right.

The best example of his coaching was in 2005-06 when he led his team to 54 wins and the WCF's with Nash, Marion, Bell, T. Thomas & Diaw. Is that a championship team in anyone's opinion? Well they almost got there!!! Look at the teams depth and where the production came from in the Playoffs that year:

Player 	     Age  G   MP  FG  FGA  3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB  AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS  FG%   3P%    FT%   MP    PTS   TRB   AST
Nash 	     31   20  798 146 291  32 87  83 91   9  73   204 8    5   67 38 407 .502   .368   .912  39.9  20.4  3.7   10.2
Marion 	     27   20  849 163 333  22 70  59 67   57 233  31  37   23  22 65 407 .489   .314   .881  42.5  20.4  11.7  1.6
Diaw 	     23   20  796 152 289  3  7   67 88   39 133  104 18   22  55 64 374 .526   .429   .761  39.8  18.7  6.7   5.2
T Thomas     28   20  636 108 220  48 108 38 49   16 126  25  18   8   22 90 302 .491   .444   .776  31.8  15.1  6.3   1.3
Barbosa      23   20  632 103 219  27 69  50 58   5  32   54  15   4   29 66 283 .470   .391   .862  31.6  14.2  1.6   2.7
Bell 	     29   17  673 79  165  40 86  34 41   8  48   37  11   4   10 70 232 .479   .465   .829  39.6  13.6  2.8   2.2
J.Jones      25   20  353 28  82   8  26  22 26   16 72   5   5    18  9  25 86  .341   .308   .846  17.7  4.3   3.6   0.3
House 	     27   14  130 19  52   3  14  3  4 	  0  9 	  6   1    2   5  10 44  .365   .214   .750  9.3   3.1   0.6   0.4
Burke 	     32   3   7   2   4    1  2   0  1 	  1  3 	  0   0    1   0  0  5   .500   .500   .000  2.3   1.7   1.0   0.0
B. Grant     33   5   12  1   3    0  0   0  2 	  2  2 	  0   0    0   0  7  2   .333   .000    ---  2.4   0.4   0.4   0.0
Tskitishvili 22   4   8   0   3    0  1   1  2    0  1 	  2   0    0   1  1  1 	 .000 	.000   .500  2.0   0.3   0.3   0.5
K. Thomas    33   1   6   0   0    0   0  1  2 	  0  1 	  0   0    0   0  2  1 	 .500                6.0   1.0   1.0   0.0

MDA isn't the best coach in the NBA, but he's shown he can be a good coach if you don't hamper him, which was a huge problem here in NY. All the change of roster and the shift in direction from management. Still with all of that, if he had the teams best player on his side he could've found success. There's no doubt that if Melo didn't like Woody he'd be toast and wouldn't have won as much since taking over.

That's a pretty good team if you ask me. On top of that Nash was the MVP 2 times remember. He was a beast. as long as you had shooters and finishers around him he was gonna do his thing. To me that teams success is a testament to Nash's greatness. Look at the scrub team he is carrying now and is close to getting them in at 37 years of age.

My question was do you think that is a Championship roster? You do realize that they were in the WCF's with that team. Look at the minutes played and it was basically just 8 guys worth playing at all. You think that at the start of the season anyone picked them to be in the WCF's with that roster? Diaw had never done anything in his career. Tim Thomas wasn't exactly considered an All Star either. Come on man. If you had that same roster playing under a different style and with a different coach, there's no guarantee they get that far. MDA deserves some credit for figuring out a way to get it done with an undersized team of role players!!!

As much as you want to make it about Nash you have to remember that Nash doesn't play D and he certainly can't make guys play D either. Nash doesn't rebound and he can't make role players execute either. Nash doesn't figure out a role and how to get the best out of a player based on their skill level. Nash doesn't make up the lineups or rotations. Nash was a huge key to the teams success, but you also have to give credit to MDA just as you have given credit to any other coach. You can't just ignore MDA's presence and management of the team when his teams win and then give him a huge share of the blame when the team loses!!!

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.

Any coach who chooses to run an offense thru a guy who has been in the D League within the last year versus a player with the talent to play the best basketball in the league the last three week is not a good coach..I would submit very far from it..

My point is the way they were playing during Linsanity was working, WITHOUT our Superstars. If the diva had just brought in, the offence would have been unstoppable. STAT knew this, just couldn't convince Melo. I think Melo was hating on Lin to tell you the truth. But now we playing traditional BB, where Melo is the focal point. We'll see how far out gets us. Time will tell.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Only one team had more than one all nba player on their roster in 2005-6 and that was the Suns. I would expect a team like that to make a run and get into the conference finals especially if one of the players was the MVP,

They h ad multiple all nba players because MDA got the most out of them. It's not like they were all nba players before joining MDA. If you look at that roster, it's definitely not a championship level roster. It has too many weaknesses. I don't think anyone could have gotten more out of it than MDA did.

sidsanders wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Only one team had more than one all nba player on their roster in 2005-6 and that was the Suns. I would expect a team like that to make a run and get into the conference finals especially if one of the players was the MVP,

They h ad multiple all nba players because MDA got the most out of them. It's not like they were all nba players before joining MDA. If you look at that roster, it's definitely not a championship level roster. It has too many weaknesses. I don't think anyone could have gotten more out of it than MDA did.

does it matter what he did before getting to ny on how he is thought of coaching in ny? more of a general question for all...

larry brown was coming off back-back nba finals runs and was awful in ny. it happens, some coaches are not gonna make it in ny, victim of circumstances, injuries, crappy rosters, ego, etc...

Or maybe, just maybe, its not the coaches!

mrKnickShot wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Only one team had more than one all nba player on their roster in 2005-6 and that was the Suns. I would expect a team like that to make a run and get into the conference finals especially if one of the players was the MVP,

They h ad multiple all nba players because MDA got the most out of them. It's not like they were all nba players before joining MDA. If you look at that roster, it's definitely not a championship level roster. It has too many weaknesses. I don't think anyone could have gotten more out of it than MDA did.

Both Nash and Marion were very good players before and after D'Antoni. His style certainly helped their numbers and they were in their prime age wise so that helped also. Both guys are still very good players. Nash is carrying the Suns and Marion is an outside canidate for DPY. I wouldn't minimize the value of having an mvp and all nba player on your team. I think the expectations are definitely to go deep into the playoffs in that scenario.

The 50-40-90 club - 50pct-fg, 40pct-3pt-fg, 90pct-ft

Steve Nash is on pace to get this for the 5th time. The only other player to do this more than once was Larry Bird (twice)! It was only once done by a PG (Mark Price).

I wonder if this helped MDA out a bit. Now I believe that MDA did a good job with that team but when your PG is possibly the best player in the league and as Bruce Bowen stated on ESPN "the best playmaker he has ever seen", it does make the coach look really good. Now Phil Jackson obviously had the all world stars but his shear number of rings just puts him in a league of his own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%E2%80%9340%E2%80%9390_Club

You name me one NBA expert or even a fan who thought Nash was NBA MVP material before he played for MDA? Go and find me one article where they suggested he should be the MVP when he was in Dallas. Then explain why the Mavs who were desperate to win a title would let a potential TWO TIME NBA MVP go!!! Nash himself admits that MDA helped him to achieve a higher level of play at a time when most players start to go the other way in their careers. MDA showed Nash the way to reach his full potential. You have to admit that if Nash feels this way then you have to accept it.

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Only one team had more than one all nba player on their roster in 2005-6 and that was the Suns. I would expect a team like that to make a run and get into the conference finals especially if one of the players was the MVP,

They h ad multiple all nba players because MDA got the most out of them. It's not like they were all nba players before joining MDA. If you look at that roster, it's definitely not a championship level roster. It has too many weaknesses. I don't think anyone could have gotten more out of it than MDA did.

Both Nash and Marion were very good players before and after D'Antoni. His style certainly helped their numbers and they were in their prime age wise so that helped also. Both guys are still very good players. Nash is carrying the Suns and Marion is an outside canidate for DPY. I wouldn't minimize the value of having an mvp and all nba player on your team. I think the expectations are definitely to go deep into the playoffs in that scenario.

The 50-40-90 club - 50pct-fg, 40pct-3pt-fg, 90pct-ft

Steve Nash is on pace to get this for the 5th time. The only other player to do this more than once was Larry Bird (twice)! It was only once done by a PG (Mark Price).

I wonder if this helped MDA out a bit. Now I believe that MDA did a good job with that team but when your PG is possibly the best player in the league and as Bruce Bowen stated on ESPN "the best playmaker he has ever seen", it does make the coach look really good. Now Phil Jackson obviously had the all world stars but his shear number of rings just puts him in a league of his own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%E2%80%9340%E2%80%9390_Club

You name me one NBA expert or even a fan who thought Nash was NBA MVP material before he played for MDA? Go and find me one article where they suggested he should be the MVP when he was in Dallas. Then explain why the Mavs who were desperate to win a title would let a potential TWO TIME NBA MVP go!!! Nash himself admits that MDA helped him to achieve a higher level of play at a time when most players start to go the other way in their careers. MDA showed Nash the way to reach his full potential. You have to admit that if Nash feels this way then you have to accept it.

Being that you are so into quotes and literals, can you read between the lines with this Steve Nash quote about Jeremy Lin?

“I think he’s a good player,” Nash said. “I think everybody makes a big deal about the system when the guy’s finishing on Bynum and Gasol and he’s making game-winning threes. He’s a good player. I think he’d be successful in most systems.”

Nixluva, who do you think Nash was really talking about?

You have to admit that if Nash feels this way then you have to accept it.

You're missing the point as usual. This is not about whether Lin or Nash or any player is good or not. This is about how Nash was helped by his coach to reach his maximum potential as a player at an age when no one has ever improved to the degree that Nash did and become a 2x MVP. All you have to do is look at how Nash improved when he played for MDA and reached his peak after he mastered the style of play that MDA taught him. If it was only Nash that had this kind of improvement in their career then you could say it was a fluke, but many role players that never excelled before also made major jumps in their production under MDA. Your quote doesn't go against the statiscal proof of MDA's effect on his players nor what Nash himself has said about MDA's effect on his game. Nash was already a good player. MDA helped him get to MVP level.

It's funny that you can give credit to Phil Jackson for helping to improve players like MJ and Kobe and yet you want to make it seem like MDA has never helped his players to improve despite the statistical proof that he has.