Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:


Opposition FTA's went up and rebounding went down. I'm sure you'd want to compare them to the league as a whole instead of comparing them to western conference playoff teams, seeing how this conversation started with the Suns inability to make the necessary improvements on defense, like the Mavs and Lakers have, to get past the Western Conference contenders.

Of course I'd want to compare them to the league. That who the play the regular season games against.

How about the old point differential per game statistic?

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:


I'm still waiting for you to offer any type of proof that the Suns attention to team defense improved under D'Antonio.

Well, then, you can keep waiting. I'm still waiting for you to explain what specifically what they should have done differently both in terms of matchups, rotations and personel changes. I'm also waiting for you to explain why their personel (including an aging Nash) doesn't factor into your exquisite analysis.

That's pretty much the non answer that I expected from you. It's pretty much par for the course for you in this discussion. Can't really call it an argument when you don't have anything to support your weak hypothesis.

How about simply playing some defense instead of just waiting to get the ball back so they could run up the court. But as far as specifics, how about pressing full court or halfcourt. A team in that kind of running shape could have easily implemented that defensive style. Or how about acquiring a solid defensive big man who could block shots. Of course not, because they were too busy fine tuning their offense. How about double teaming on defense with much better defensive rotation.

Ok, now it's your turn to give specific examples of what you think they did to improve their overall team defense.

Ummm, that "aging Nash" won 2 MVP's in that period.

Those suggestions are window dressing.

Acquiring a solid defensive big man and stay under the cap all at once? How would you suggest that be accomplished? Be specific.

Press full court - with who? their centers? You want Nash to press pull-court? I'd like my MVP to be conscious in the 4th quarter, thank you.

Double teaming on defense? They did that on every possession in the 2006 playoffs. Because they had to.

See, Isles, its easy for you to throw out generalizations that don't quite apply. Its a lot more difficult to create a better defensive team when you have Nash and any of their centers as major cogs to the puzzle.

I really wish you would be specific about any improvements that the Suns made to improve their overall team defense so I could call it window dressing. But alas you refuse to offer any specifics to support your argument. Oh well.

Acquiring a solid defensive big man and stay under the cap all at once? How would you suggest that be accomplished? Be specific.

How about not constantly trading your first rd picks away and try to draft and develop a defensive big man?

Press full court - with who? their centers? You want Nash to press pull-court? I'd like my MVP to be conscious in the 4th quarter, thank you.

How about start with your defensive cure all, Raja Bell? Wait, the Suns can run all day on offense but if you ask them to press full court or picking it up at half court (which you conveniently left out) would render them unconscious? Why would they use their centers to pick up full court?? Have you ever heard of guards and forwards? And why do you act like if they implemented a full court press, that they would have to do it until they dropped? Believe it or not, it can be effective in spurts, like zone defenses which the Suns also never tried.

Double teaming on defense? They did that on every possession in the 2006 playoffs. Because they had to.

Why only in the playoffs? Why only when they had to?

See code, it's real easy to just dismiss other people's specific arguments when you make none of of your own.

Ok, I'm going to wait until you can give any specific examples of how their team defense improved under D'Antonio before I continue explaining mine.

Listen Oohah... I mean, Islesfan, you can quote every word in my posts and it doesn't make the two stats you threw out there an argument.

You want Raja to press against point guards-- and have Nash guard the shooting guard - in other words surrender a mismatch at the start of the possession?

Trading 1st round picks isn't D'Antoni's fault. Rather, its a complication of coaching in Phoenix. 1st round picks add salary. So why are misplacing the blame?

They double teamed all the time. When you have to double team its a bad sign. It also hinders defensive rebounding, which cost them the Dallas series in 2006.

The truth is Isles, you're not very good when you drift away from your bread and butter - which is bashing Isiah.

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by islesfan:


I'm still waiting for you to offer any type of proof that the Suns attention to team defense improved under D'Antonio.

Well, then, you can keep waiting. I'm still waiting for you to explain what specifically what they should have done differently both in terms of matchups, rotations and personel changes. I'm also waiting for you to explain why their personel (including an aging Nash) doesn't factor into your exquisite analysis.

That's pretty much the non answer that I expected from you. It's pretty much par for the course for you in this discussion. Can't really call it an argument when you don't have anything to support your weak hypothesis.

How about simply playing some defense instead of just waiting to get the ball back so they could run up the court. But as far as specifics, how about pressing full court or halfcourt. A team in that kind of running shape could have easily implemented that defensive style. Or how about acquiring a solid defensive big man who could block shots. Of course not, because they were too busy fine tuning their offense. How about double teaming on defense with much better defensive rotation.

Ok, now it's your turn to give specific examples of what you think they did to improve their overall team defense.

Ummm, that "aging Nash" won 2 MVP's in that period.

Those suggestions are window dressing.

Acquiring a solid defensive big man and stay under the cap all at once? How would you suggest that be accomplished? Be specific.

Press full court - with who? their centers? You want Nash to press pull-court? I'd like my MVP to be conscious in the 4th quarter, thank you.

Double teaming on defense? They did that on every possession in the 2006 playoffs. Because they had to.

See, Isles, its easy for you to throw out generalizations that don't quite apply. Its a lot more difficult to create a better defensive team when you have Nash and any of their centers as major cogs to the puzzle.

I really wish you would be specific about any improvements that the Suns made to improve their overall team defense so I could call it window dressing. But alas you refuse to offer any specifics to support your argument. Oh well.

Acquiring a solid defensive big man and stay under the cap all at once? How would you suggest that be accomplished? Be specific.

How about not constantly trading your first rd picks away and try to draft and develop a defensive big man?

Press full court - with who? their centers? You want Nash to press pull-court? I'd like my MVP to be conscious in the 4th quarter, thank you.

How about start with your defensive cure all, Raja Bell? Wait, the Suns can run all day on offense but if you ask them to press full court or picking it up at half court (which you conveniently left out) would render them unconscious? Why would they use their centers to pick up full court?? Have you ever heard of guards and forwards? And why do you act like if they implemented a full court press, that they would have to do it until they dropped? Believe it or not, it can be effective in spurts, like zone defenses which the Suns also never tried.

Double teaming on defense? They did that on every possession in the 2006 playoffs. Because they had to.

Why only in the playoffs? Why only when they had to?

See code, it's real easy to just dismiss other people's specific arguments when you make none of of your own.

Ok, I'm going to wait until you can give any specific examples of how their team defense improved under D'Antonio before I continue explaining mine.

Listen Oohah... I mean, Islesfan, you can quote every word in my posts and it doesn't make the two stats you threw out there an argument.

You want Raja to press against point guards-- and have Nash guard the shooting guard - in other words surrender a mismatch at the start of the possession?

Trading 1st round picks isn't D'Antoni's fault. Rather, its a complication of coaching in Phoenix. 1st round picks add salary. So why are misplacing the blame?

They double teamed all the time. When you have to double team its a bad sign. It also hinders defensive rebounding, which cost them the Dallas series in 2006.

The truth is Isles, you're not very good when you drift away from your bread and butter - which is bashing Isiah.

That's harsh code. I didn't think your go below the belt like that. I only responded in that style because you went point by point and it would be easier to respond to. That was cold man.

I'm still waiting for you to give any specific examples of the Suns defense improving with Raja Bell and under Mike D'Antonio. I really am giving you every opportunity. I'd like to go to bed but out of respect for you, I'm staying up to wait for you to start backing up your argument with any type of specifics.

Posted by codeunknown:

I can do without the opportunity. I'm not trying to antagonize you - the reason I'm posting the way I am is that I feel that the burden of proof lies with you. Because, to me, its obvious that his personel were so severely lacking at certain positions (Pg, center) that they were especially vulnerable to the pick and roll. Especially the Spurs pick and roll that booted them almost every season in which they had a healthy Amare.

Of course, a fastbreak system does in fact sacrifice opponent fg% to an extent - in an attempt to increase your own scoring efficieny. The offensive fg% numbers you posted argue against this but the absence and subsequent return of Amare throw a wrench into that analysis. Shaq of course changed the dynamic this year. Lets agree to disagree because I have to be in bed and then up in about 3 hrs.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Well, there goes my Spurs vs Celtics prediction.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Pretty hungover actually. I ended up drinking a lot last night. Thanks. How was your birthday?

Posted by Bonn1997:

4 to 1! What happened to your Spurs, Mck1? They didn't even put up a fight!

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Bonn1997:

4 to 1! What happened to your Spurs, Mck1? They didn't even put up a fight!

they loss to a better team

They didn't just lose; they didn't even put up a fight