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Instead of Bashing Marbury and The Knicks, Why Not Simply Take A Vacation?
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Masterplan
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8/7/2007  2:48 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - so, whachoo sayin' is one borderline all-star player cannot make a significant impact on the equation?

Besides, Marbury will not last the season. Too much mileage.

all i did was state a fact. draw whatever conclusions you like from it.
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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8/7/2007  2:59 PM
Masterplan - the only conclusion that I can conclude is that drawing any conclusion before Zach Randolph slips a "New YorK" jersey over his head is a delusion
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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8/7/2007  3:01 PM
Posted by misterearl:

bipp - how can you characterize an "inability" for Zach Randolph or Eddie Curry or Stephon Marbury or Jamal Crawford to mesh before they have had the opportunity to play together?

sheesh

Once again, not once have I said they can't. I have said based on past history it is a possibility. Just like I said with Francis and Marbs last year. And again, as per usual, just the idea of bringing up the possibility scares some people.

I'm here to talk about the Knicks. I talk about the good and the bad. The undeniable good is that we have a nice group of young guys that have been drafted in teh past two years that have strong knowledgeof the game and an understanding of the commitment that it takes for both sides of the ball to be successful. This is undeniable and I have no problem discussing it.

We also have a core group of veterans that have unbeleivable talent but have shown in the past a lack of commitment to team play/defense, a lack of commitment to their bodies, a a lack of commitment to the legal side of life. This is undeniable and I have no problem discussing it.

Just like I don't look at my optimism concerning the potential of the young guys and say they are guaranteed to be successful. I don't look at the problems of the veterans and say they are guaranteed to fail. These are issues that you keep inventing. As with the "basketball IQ" comment you are once again having a conversation with me about an argument that you had with someone else. I suggest you have that argument with them and stop painting everyone with a broad brush.
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nixluva
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8/7/2007  3:13 PM
Posted by misterearl:

1. If Isiah continues to run a variation of the triangle offense with Curry and Marbury (for starters) which of the ball-handling forwards would be best-suited to hold down the third point on the diagram?
Of the guys that start Isiah has used Q primarily in the corner. Jamal also made a good corner position guy as did Steph. You really want a guy that can pass the ball, shoot with range and finish at the basket if he receives the ball on a cut. At times we've had to make do with Jared & Balk.
Posted by misterearl:

2. Could an effective triangle be run with Zach Randolph, in place of Curry, then insert Collins for Marbury and Lee at the center position?
With Curry and Zach we can create the triangle on either side of the court, so Zach will be a very effective post in that sense. He's shown that he can pass the ball, but he'll have to improve even more. When Curry isn't on the floor you can expect Zach will be the dominant guy in that Triangle and Lee will setup on the weakside.
Posted by misterearl:

3. Quentin (at 220) and Chadler (230) have enough bulk to set effective picks, and do not seem as reliant on the dribble as Francis. While Chandler is an unproven commodity, his 50% shooting was a pleasant surprise in glorified pick-up league. Although I worry about Q's back, his outside shot was dropping last season before the injury rash broke out. Could a more robust 2 man game on the weakside consist of Nichols, provided he continues his upward growth curve, and either Quentin or (holding my breath) Chandler?
Down the line or if Isiah makes a trade to clear the way, you can imagine that Chan and DNIc would work very well in that scenario.

The thing is that we also have other sets that we run and with Zach there now, those sets will likely be more effective. Zach will be great in the midpost to highpost game. We really need for isiah to make up his mind on who he's gonna go with. We simply must find a way to move some of these guys that don't fit.

Jared has a big bullseye on his back IMO. I don't hate the guy, but he has no role on this team. Unless he suddenly got really good at shooting from the perimeter. His D is OK, but no spectacular. I do like his size and length. When he's on his game he does give us a help defender that can block or alter shots a little.

Nate is a great talent, but we can't keep everyone. He is a small target for our big guys and we have better defensive guys with good size who can replace him. Perhaps Isiah want's to keep him for when Steph is no longer around.

Jamal is too streaky for our needs and he's a poor defender at SG. As a PG he does have some promise, but he doesn't really think the game at all and that has been a problem. He's one of my favorite players when he's going well, even tho he drives me crazy most of the time.

Balk, Mardy, Chan & DNic are clear signs of Isiah understanding what this team needs. But it means nothing if they can't get any burn.
Bippity10
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8/7/2007  3:37 PM
Down the line or if Isiah makes a trade to clear the way, you can imagine that Chan and DNIc would work very well in that scenario.

The thing is that we also have other sets that we run and with Zach there now, those sets will likely be more effective. Zach will be great in the midpost to highpost game. We really need for isiah to make up his mind on who he's gonna go with. We simply must find a way to move some of these guys that don't fit.

Jared has a big bullseye on his back IMO. I don't hate the guy, but he has no role on this team. Unless he suddenly got really good at shooting from the perimeter. His D is OK, but no spectacular. I do like his size and length. When he's on his game he does give us a help defender that can block or alter shots a little.

Nate is a great talent, but we can't keep everyone. He is a small target for our big guys and we have better defensive guys with good size who can replace him. Perhaps Isiah want's to keep him for when Steph is no longer around.

Jamal is too streaky for our needs and he's a poor defender at SG. As a PG he does have some promise, but he doesn't really think the game at all and that has been a problem. He's one of my favorite players when he's going well, even tho he drives me crazy most of the time.

Balk, Mardy, Chan & DNic are clear signs of Isiah understanding what this team needs. But it means nothing if they can't get any burn.

Misterearl I completely expect you to go after Nixluva like you have me in the past. This is almost word for word with what I have said in the past and been called a pessimistic hater for in the past. GREAT POST NIXLUVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bippity10
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8/7/2007  3:55 PM
The key for us offensively will be ball movement. I haven't seen Zach play a ton but with 2.2 assists a game he at least has an understanding of ball movement. Now if you put him in the high post with Curry low and a shooter in the corner. That will allow you to overload one side of the floor. Our shooters, Q and Jamal are solid post passers so at this point they look good on the strong side.

Now the question becomes what do we do at the other spots. Normally the point will be manned by a Nate or a Steph or a Mardy. Those guys will have to be able to hit the open one and also be able to understand when to cut, when to hold, when to swing, and when to force the issue with the ball. This initiation from the point is crucial in this type of offense. Make the wrong decision and the PG is forcing when he shouldn't, cutting when he should be holding and swinging the ball. They will have to learn this for us to reach our peak.

On the weakside if it's not a shooter than you are looking at guys like DLee, Renaldo, Jared etc. Not a threat. This is where the doubles come from. Weakside doubles will be the hardest for Curry to deal with. It will definitely be a learning process so we are going to need our big time players to step up and learn quickly. If a Nichols or a Chandler can seize the SF spot that erases a key weakness on the weakside.

In the meantime while we are hoping to improve these areas(which we will as the season goes on) it is imperative that we improve our defense right away. This way if injuries happen late in the year we aren't wishing we had tried harder on that side of the ball earlier in the year.
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nixluva
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8/7/2007  5:00 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

On the weakside if it's not a shooter than you are looking at guys like DLee, Renaldo, Jared etc. Not a threat. This is where the doubles come from. Weakside doubles will be the hardest for Curry to deal with. It will definitely be a learning process so we are going to need our big time players to step up and learn quickly. If a Nichols or a Chandler can seize the SF spot that erases a key weakness on the weakside.
Just looking at our roster you can feel that a trade is coming.

Steph, Jamal, Q, Zach, Curry - Lee, Mardy, Balk, Jared, Nate, Chan, DNic, Morris, Malik & James (Dickau & Jones)

Without Dickau, Jones, Jared and Nate, you have a nice rotation of:

Steph, Jamal, Q, Zach, Curry - Lee, Mardy, Balk, Chan, DNic - Morris, Malik & James

So you can just feel the Artest deal coming. You would hope that we would look for a way to get Kobe instead, but that's pipedream stuff. Realistically a deal for Artest and Kenny Thomas is more likely.

Artest/Thomas for Nate, Jared, Dickau & Jones - is the most likely thing to happen. Sac may want a pick or perhaps DNic in addition. I'd rather give them a future pick. Isiah almost has no choice but to make this kind of deal. It works financially as confirmed by Trade Checker. Of course the problem with this move is Chemistry. but it would do the job and if Artest acts up you let him go and we still have a good balanced rotation.
misterearl
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8/7/2007  5:02 PM
bip - you gotta learn not take my responses so a personally. I enjoy trading verbs with you more than anything. We may differ in semantics or opinion, but there is no need to feel I'm singling you out to make trouble or question your inalienable right to be a passionate Knicks fan.

I think everything you write is valid and it's only August. We both are probably impatient for some hoops.

It's nothing personal

It's strictly business

Lets Go Mets
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Bippity10
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8/7/2007  5:05 PM
I'm not an Artest fan, but at this point it's the one move that makes sense. At least it means you are going for the EAst and not just sitting in a holding pattern. I think an Artest trade only has a shelf life for one or two years but if you can do it without obliterating your youth it makes some sense.

When I look at the offense, as is, I'm sensing a lot of three guard line-ups again. It's just the closest way to get some sort of offensive balance. Those guys will really need to play some D, or Q will need to be healthy.
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loweyecue
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8/7/2007  5:06 PM
Posted by misterearl:

loweyecue - a "lock-down" defender at power forward? Nice. Who did you have in mind?

Power forward was a weak link because of two things. First, neither Frye, Lee or Malik Rose could draw attention from Eddy Curry to prevent the double and triple teaming inside. Second, none of them had adequate lateral quickness to cover mistakes on defense. The only one with decent hops was Lee, but he needs work, as most young players do, on reaction and recognition.

Zeke's approach was to correct the perimeter defensive deficiences pointed out by my hero tomverve in the "Keys To The Season" thread. Hence, the drafting of Wilson Chandler who has a Marcus Camby-like anticipation for defense and blocked shots... and Demetris Nichols, who - despite his tasty jumper - is a defense-first forward.

I don't have a problem with building defense from the backcourt first. (see 6'6 Mardy Collins, the re-orientation of Nate and the addition of big-body Fred Jones)

Here is one of my problems with your pre-assessment of Zach as "selfish". Players adopt roles based on the dudes they play alongside. A player can be the lead scorer in one system and that same player can become a part of a synchronized unit on the next. ie. Pete Maravich as a Boston Celtic (even given his age) was not the same Pistol Pete of Atlanta.

Zach was "selfish" (ie a leader on the court) in Portland because that's what he had to be. Heck, while we're passing out the selfish label let's stick it on Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes and Rick Barry.

How can you predict how Zach will mesh with his new teammates before the ball racks have been rolled out for the first freakin' practice?

And yes, I'm talkin' 'bout practice



[Edited by - misterearl on 08-07-2007 10:59 AM]

"Pre assesment??" Jumping the gun again? I have seen him play in Portland games, its not "pre" anything. Selfishness IS a transferable skill, just look at Marbury. If you discount may be the last 35 games of last season he has been consistently selfish throughout his career including god knows how many episodes of being Starbury.

I think I already told you who I would rather have and that was Ron Artest. If not him Isiah should have gone after AK47. Those trades would have actually filled a need but no we get Zach Randolph.

seeeesh

And as for this.....

How can you predict how Zach will mesh with his new teammates before the ball racks have been rolled out for the first freakin' practice?
And yes, I'm talkin' 'bout practice

I guess its the same way you ptredict Wilson Chandler is going to be like Camby without ever having seen him play a single NBA game.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Bippity10
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8/7/2007  5:10 PM
Posted by misterearl:

bip - you gotta learn not take my responses so a personally. I enjoy trading verbs with you more than anything. We may differ in semantics or opinion, but there is no need to feel I'm singling you out to make trouble or question your inalienable right to be a passionate Knicks fan.

I think everything you write is valid and it's only August. We both are probably impatient for some hoops.

It's nothing personal

It's strictly business

Lets Go Mets

I don't take it personally, I was actually being sarcastic. You would find if you paid attention to my posts, you would understand that sarcasm is a Bippity trait both when he's arguing and when he's agreeing. I've only been upset one or two times on this board and that is when that joker from a little while ago(what the heck was his name) used to run around from post to post misquoting me. The other was when Bobo called Tim Duncan garbage. Other than that, I am as easy going as it gets. I just love to argue.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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8/7/2007  5:12 PM
Who the hell was that joker that used to misquote me? He claims he was banned. what the heck was his name? Anyone? Islesfan? Isles used to torture the poor guy. He has to know who he was

[Edited by - bippity10 on 07-08-2007 5:12 PM]
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misterearl
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8/7/2007  6:09 PM
loweyecue - Wilson Chandler will be WAY better than Marcus Camby and definately (fingers crossed) more durable

Number 21 will be a second team NBA All-Star by 2010

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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8/7/2007  6:17 PM
bipp - i pay closef attention to your posts but you know that sarcasm is a difficult thing to discern in print

did lowIQ just say that selfishness is a transferable skill? Didn't some people insist the same thing about Earl Monroe?

Selfish is good so long as the ball goes in the hoop at a clip a slim shady under 47%

once a knick always a knick
Panos
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8/7/2007  6:33 PM
Posted by misterearl:

loweyecue - Wilson Chandler will be WAY better than Marcus Camby and definately (fingers crossed) more durable

Number 21 will be a second team NBA All-Star by 2010

I can't believe I'm reading this. YOu are proclaiming that WC will be WAY better than Camby without ever seeing him play in an NBA game? Seriously?
misterearl
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8/7/2007  6:40 PM
Panos - not only am I saying it, I'm saying it with a seriously straight face.

C'mon dude, what's the point if you're not willing to lay it all on the line for everyone to see, throw rocks at or call you crazy?

Anyone can talk about the past with perfect 10/10 hindsight. We know the past and regurgitate it on a daily basis. On the other hand... How many can look forward with unblinking vision and courage and stand up tall with a steely eye and tell you to go out and buy your all-star game tickets three years in advance?

I'm Spartacus dammit!

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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8/7/2007  6:42 PM
you wanna be outstanding and impressive?

really?

bring some visionary heat on what the Knicks will look like in 2011.

[Edited by - misterearl on 08-07-2007 6:45 PM]
once a knick always a knick
Panos
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8/7/2007  6:46 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Panos - not only am I saying it, I'm saying it with a seriously straight face.

C'mon dude, what's the point if you're not willing to lay it all on the line for everyone to see, throw rocks at or call you crazy?

Anyone can talk about the past with perfect 10/10 hindsight. We know the past and regurgitate it on a daily basis. On the other hand... How many can look forward with unblinking vision and courage and stand up tall with a steely eye and tell you to go out and buy your all-star game tickets three years in advance?

I'm Spartacus dammit!

First of all, I don't even see how you compare Camby and Chandler.
They are completely different players. That is really the part that confuses me.
Are you saying that Chandler will do the things that Camby does well better than Camby does them,
or that all-round he will be a more valuable player?
misterearl
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8/7/2007  6:54 PM
Panos -in the context of the direction the team is headed, Chandler will be more all-round valuable player than Camby. I dug the unpredictibility and flammability Marcus (and Spree) brought off the bench in 99. In the same vein, the Knicks bench has some new jacks that will move the crowd.

Camby has a nice handle for a 6'11 dude - check

Camby would come out of nowhere to block a shot - got that covered

Camby's jumper made Jamal Wilkes ugly shot look like Jerry west - Chandler has 3 point range

Camby boarded like a demon - Wilson C has titanium springs in his knees, is 6'8 230, and only needs to learn the angles

Camby stayed on the injured list - I rest my case





once a knick always a knick
Panos
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8/7/2007  6:58 PM
See my only beef is the comparison.
I don't see them as similar players. Jamal Crawford has a better three point shot than Camby too. But they are different players. Camby is a PF/C, and Chandler is a SF. Camby was an interior defender. Chandler may block a shot, but its not going to be at the rate that Camby does it, nor against PF/C type opponents. I just find it odd that you make that comparison. Tell me what SF he will be better than, and I'll appreciate it more.
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