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Game Thread: ECF Game 4 @ Pacers 8PM TNT
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LivingLegend
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5/28/2025  12:14 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
DuckVader wrote:Bridges' defense is overrated

He offered zero deterrence and simply allowed Hali to get right all night long.

He looked like he was on meds —- maybe drank a bottle of Vicks cough syrup.

Pacers ran double screens all night to get the switch.

There never was a switch unless you count Hali making it all the way to paint with Kat in drop coverage guarding both Hali/Turner.

Strong Disagree. Hali basically had the option call off the double screen - often with Turner top of the box. Knicks often failed rotate. When Brunson stunted back to take away the pass to Turner, Hali would release a long 3.

On a single screen, usually Turner, would be slightly moving and extending his arms. An illegal screen, to create space on Mikal.

Deuce seemed to anticipate the double screen and would hop past the first and fight over the second - pretty successfully.

Not really worth the argument though. Knicks got beat.

Mikal appears (all season) to appear to prefer going under picks where he can use his length to contest.

He doesn’t appear to like going over top of screen which is a more physical play - something guys like Deuce/OG/Hart will often do. Mikal just doesn’t looked thrilled chasing that way - don’t blame him. If I had his body type and length I’d prefer to play off some and use my length rather then chase.

AUTOADVERT
LivingLegend
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5/28/2025  12:16 AM
DLeethal wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Let me try to summarize what seems obvious by now (to me)...KAT and Brunson are both great offensive threats but clearly defensively challenged. Playing both at the same time puts too much pressure on Bridges, OG and Hart or whoever else is there to play defense and stand around for kickouts when those two can't iso well. Playing Mitch alongside KAT helps but Mitch has his challenges staying healthy, hitting free throws, etc...

Assuming no significant roster changes it really makes little sense to keep both KAT and Brunson at their salaries and need to both be starters. If KAT could come off the bench and be featured we would probably be more effective as a team overall (but that would not happen). Ironic that we supposedly were considering Myles Turner for like 3 seasons as he would have been better for us because we wouldn't have to hide him defensively and while he's not a potent - he can shoot well enough from deep.

So unless Mitch starts at C KAT is probably the odd man out since Brunson is god-like and a Nova guy. I think OG is actually undervalued as he can fit on most any team. Yes we overpaid for Bridges and he does fit next to Brunson but I think if we want to upgrade this team it has to be KAT and Bridges.

I think we take Game 5 at home btw!

Really think we missed DDV this post season.

Brunson being treated as god-like is going to be a/the problem going forward - will be interesting to see if front office will make right decisions.

We are seeing some of the issues Becky Hammon pointed to in terms of Jalen and being at that top/top tier.

Are you honestly suggesting trading Brunson lol

I’m suggesting that his play to contract $ may become a major issue in a few years and he takes a significant beating every night.

We have 4 years starting next season to worry about that.

You mean he’s not due for new deal for 4 years? I didn’t realize that - is that right?

houston20
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5/28/2025  12:31 AM
Pacers had pressure to win game 4 they couldn’t have this series tied 2to2 . The pressure isn’t on the pacers to win game 5 it’s on the knicks. The knicks just have to win game 5 to extend the series and deal with the other stuff later.
LivingLegend
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5/28/2025  1:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/28/2025  1:16 AM
Just saw great/horrible stat……

Knicks 17 assists and 17 TO’s
Hali. 15 assists and 0 TO’S

Hart had 5 alone at half — everyone just making **** decisions over and over.

Meanwhile zero pressure applied to Hali who danced like a princess thru a field of flowers on us.

Disgusted by this entire effort tonight and Thibs riding our top 5 guys again rather than squeezing more energy/defense from role players that actually played when we grabbed lead in 2nd.

Knicksfan
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5/28/2025  2:07 AM
ToddTT wrote:Losing sucks. Losing to a massive douche is salt in the wound.

Totally agree and thought the Knicks would show up this year and get revenge on them. But no, they suck. They really suck. This team somehow wins but mostly unsurprisingly loses like what they are: a beautiful mess. Very talented, yet so undisciplined and so mentally challenged that it’s a toll on a fan to follow them.

I really want changes, big ones. Normally you don’t, because an ECF ticket usually means you are close. Not this team. Either they drastically change with a new coach, or a big piece or two is traded away. But this is a mess. Last year was cool seeing a team overachieve to almost making it to the ECF. This year? It feels like underachieving considering the talent, yet the mental aspect and the coaching feels light years away from being there.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:12 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:Pacers had several things tonight.
Better point guard play.
Better wing defenders.
More fight.

Played like they were down 2-1

Like they should’ve and like they predictably were going to. It’s us, the mentally challenged team, that even down 2-1 somehow still doesn’t care to show up and play up to our level. Enough of them. Fine run to get to the ECF with a bunch of slackers and no sense of discipline and consistency.

About to be eliminated and the closest we got to a whole game of good play was either the second half of Game 6 or ironically the Game 1 we lost in the final 4 minutes. This team blows. Losing to poser Haliburton? Bah, you deserve all the hate that’s coming. Pretenders.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:15 AM
DLeethal wrote:Wright looks to me like the closest thing to a Hali stopper we have on the roster. But I’m kind of shocked we haven’t even tried OG on him after OG shadowed Cade for 6 straight games.

Why shocked? We got Thibs!

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:20 AM
Chandler wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Losing sucks. Losing to a massive douche is salt in the wound.

absolutely!

somehow I am hoping that we're just getting the Pacers' hopes that much higher so when we win the series the pain is that much stronger

realistically there are a lot of pacers's players I like. but I truly hate Hali

They can say they have our number and anytime they see us they have already won. Won’t argue there. This team, instead of going higher after defeating the Celtics, just reverted back into the crackerjack mess of a team that can’t focus and play well for a whole game and instead thinks they are talented enough to win a championship slacking all the way. This team seriously needs a new coach and probably one or two of their “valued starting lineup” traded away. What a bunch of underachievers.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:30 AM
DLeethal wrote:
Chandler wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
ToddTT wrote:Losing sucks. Losing to a massive douche is salt in the wound.

Yea, but this team clearly isn’t ready. Can’t skip steps. This is not a Finals team. Indiana actually looks like one.

we will probably lose the series of course. But I continue to think we are the more talented team. This is on the coaches. I am still dumbfounded that the Pacers and Celts can hide weak defenders but we can't. And the Pacers and Celts can exploit our weak defenders but we can't seem to exploit theirs (for the most part).

KAT may be a liability on defense but he is not a dummy by any means. Wondering if adding a coach like Malone in some capacity would benefit things. Get KAT more effective on D, Leverage his passing more.

We are 100% more talented. But Indiana has years of chemistry build up. It’s the same team they had last year and the year before. They are just way better now. Same way Cavs got way better over the years. Knicks can do that too, although I don’t advocate for keeping this core intact if they can’t play defense.

They simply have been better prepared by their coach, have an identity that can last more than a game, and find themselves playing a team that is the opposite. I do believe the Knicks are more talented, not by soooo much but yeah. The thing is that this Knicks team is so undisciplined and mentally challenged that they never establish their identity. Heck, they don’t even know it. So their talent has somehow perfectly merged in a few occasions, enough to get them here. It’s actually a miracle, because the reality is this team still seems to be in preseason finding its way. However messy the construction of the team is, it’s how terribly they have been coached as a whole the biggest reason for their demise.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:36 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
Panos wrote:OG is an offensively stunted player. How is he so strong and so bad down low?
He is NOT a $40m player. Sorry.

I’m fine with OG. He’s close to his pay grade. The big problem is Towns and his salary when he can’t even share the floor with Brunson.

You can’t have your top 2 players horrible on the court together and be a legit finals team. I’m still on the KAT for Durant train.

I’d argue maybe it’s Brunson who shouldn’t share court with Kat. Jalen was a -16 tonight and had to be hid all night. Kat stood up and defended and was a +3 tonight.

When does Jalen massive extension kick in and what do we say when he’s in his 30’s pulling in +$50M and getting banged up every night.

Both contracts are scary - so is OG’s and now certainly Mikal extension sounds dangerous.

That’s why you don’t take for granted playoff runs like this one. We think we are one step away, then become an albatross. This team is a mess and other than a coaching change, I don’t know what can they do to improve a team that definitely doesn’t work together on defense.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:40 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
Panos wrote:OG is an offensively stunted player. How is he so strong and so bad down low?
He is NOT a $40m player. Sorry.

I’m fine with OG. He’s close to his pay grade. The big problem is Towns and his salary when he can’t even share the floor with Brunson.

You can’t have your top 2 players horrible on the court together and be a legit finals team. I’m still on the KAT for Durant train.

I’d argue maybe it’s Brunson who shouldn’t share court with Kat. Jalen was a -16 tonight and had to be hid all night. Kat stood up and defended and was a +3 tonight.

When does Jalen massive extension kick in and what do we say when he’s in his 30’s pulling in +$50M and getting banged up every night.

Both contracts are scary - so is OG’s and now certainly Mikal extension sounds dangerous.

I really believe they thought that wingstop would cover the loss of Hartenstein and survive with Brunson and KAT together, but that has failed. Wingstop is flawed and inconsistent. Brunson needs a Hartenstein to make up for his bad defense and KAT is at best average but not even close to that. So they might have to decide on which of the two to keep, because I’m not sure they can find a Hartenstein in the offseason with limited pieces to move.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:48 AM
jskinny35 wrote:Let me try to summarize what seems obvious by now (to me)...KAT and Brunson are both great offensive threats but clearly defensively challenged. Playing both at the same time puts too much pressure on Bridges, OG and Hart or whoever else is there to play defense and stand around for kickouts when those two can't iso well. Playing Mitch alongside KAT helps but Mitch has his challenges staying healthy, hitting free throws, etc...

Assuming no significant roster changes it really makes little sense to keep both KAT and Brunson at their salaries and need to both be starters. If KAT could come off the bench and be featured we would probably be more effective as a team overall (but that would not happen). Ironic that we supposedly were considering Myles Turner for like 3 seasons as he would have been better for us because we wouldn't have to hide him defensively and while he's not a potent - he can shoot well enough from deep.

So unless Mitch starts at C KAT is probably the odd man out since Brunson is god-like and a Nova guy. I think OG is actually undervalued as he can fit on most any team. Yes we overpaid for Bridges and he does fit next to Brunson but I think if we want to upgrade this team it has to be KAT and Bridges.

I think we take Game 5 at home btw!

Really think we missed DDV this post season.

Yep, the only way this boat can keep going, other than the coaching change, is doing what everyone does when they have KAT: get a center. Mitch unfortunately might be too risky health-wise to be considered, so they have to find a way to get one if they want to hide Brunson’s defensive issues. But then KAT becomes more of an albatross with that contract. It is what it is.

Nothing is certain with this team.

We thought Deuce would take the jump and become that sharpshooter instant offense guy off the bench, but as many other things with this team, that plan failed.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  2:58 AM
houston20 wrote:Pacers had pressure to win game 4 they couldn’t have this series tied 2to2 . The pressure isn’t on the pacers to win game 5 it’s on the knicks. The knicks just have to win game 5 to extend the series and deal with the other stuff later.

You think being down 2-1 after blowing both games at home with the next game being there isn’t pressure?

Of course the Pacers had to win Game 4, but so had the Knicks! Tying the series means you are still in it, so you had to be desperate. They just weren’t, which shows they are just pretenders like their inconsistency proved all season long.

Will they win Game 5? They might, but nothing is certain with this head case of a team. And who cares? They have played like the series was over in Game 1.

Knicks_Fan
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5/28/2025  4:58 AM
Well, we are a good team afterall, top 4 teams in the league, but so far we are not better than Indy. our defence got exposed big time with them, if you compare starters, we have better players, but we look lost on defense. even sometimes i feel OG is hurt or something. and I don't know what is going inside Hart's brains, he is for sure not thinking clearly, he is putting in the effort, but very low IQ in this series.
You think with a coach who preach defence every single minute, we will be top tier in that area!!!
VDesai
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5/28/2025  6:35 AM
Brunson is the reason we are here in the first place. "Here," meaning not just the conference finals, but contention. People are mad, but is causing them to misunderstand something fundamental.

This coach has seen Brunson guarded this way for 2 yrs now vs. Indy and the Pistons did it too. The counter is having another PG to provide help against the press and then push tempo. Instead if you let Brunson get swallowed and trapped the whole game and fouled up the floor, he will wear down. He is getting "his," but with turnovers and less efficiency because we arent calling a different number. With Hartenstein last year, he had a play partner and ball mover off the trap. We dont have that on the team right now.

But the these of this team starts with Brunson. If you are ready to move off, welcome to the lottery. BTW Brooklyn has all your picks. His contract is no albatross. He is gonna age just fine too - his game is built on smarts, touch, footwork. We can't ask him to figure out virtually every thing - I think we are failing him by not countering the press and trap with the right strategy.

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5/28/2025  6:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/28/2025  6:47 AM
Taking Hart off the floor is not the best way to play the trap. Mitch has not been effective starting.

I would start Deuce or Wright. Then you have a defender on Hali and a second PG level ballhandler. Add Hart back and you have a third playmaker and a transition player. Yes Hart made bad passes last night, but he got you here playing this role. I really think this is how you beat the way Indy is playing you.

EwingsGlass
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5/28/2025  7:18 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
DuckVader wrote:Bridges' defense is overrated

He offered zero deterrence and simply allowed Hali to get right all night long.

He looked like he was on meds —- maybe drank a bottle of Vicks cough syrup.

Pacers ran double screens all night to get the switch.

There never was a switch unless you count Hali making it all the way to paint with Kat in drop coverage guarding both Hali/Turner.

Strong Disagree. Hali basically had the option call off the double screen - often with Turner top of the box. Knicks often failed rotate. When Brunson stunted back to take away the pass to Turner, Hali would release a long 3.

On a single screen, usually Turner, would be slightly moving and extending his arms. An illegal screen, to create space on Mikal.

Deuce seemed to anticipate the double screen and would hop past the first and fight over the second - pretty successfully.

Not really worth the argument though. Knicks got beat.

Mikal appears (all season) to appear to prefer going under picks where he can use his length to contest.

He doesn’t appear to like going over top of screen which is a more physical play - something guys like Deuce/OG/Hart will often do. Mikal just doesn’t looked thrilled chasing that way - don’t blame him. If I had his body type and length I’d prefer to play off some and use my length rather then chase.

Valid point. He does go under a lot. My point was that they were running double screens to get him off Hali anyway. Deuce was able to fight through doubles as you say by using a hop step on the first and then fighting the second. He has much better foot speed though.

You know I gonna spin wit it
DLeethal
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5/28/2025  7:20 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Let me try to summarize what seems obvious by now (to me)...KAT and Brunson are both great offensive threats but clearly defensively challenged. Playing both at the same time puts too much pressure on Bridges, OG and Hart or whoever else is there to play defense and stand around for kickouts when those two can't iso well. Playing Mitch alongside KAT helps but Mitch has his challenges staying healthy, hitting free throws, etc...

Assuming no significant roster changes it really makes little sense to keep both KAT and Brunson at their salaries and need to both be starters. If KAT could come off the bench and be featured we would probably be more effective as a team overall (but that would not happen). Ironic that we supposedly were considering Myles Turner for like 3 seasons as he would have been better for us because we wouldn't have to hide him defensively and while he's not a potent - he can shoot well enough from deep.

So unless Mitch starts at C KAT is probably the odd man out since Brunson is god-like and a Nova guy. I think OG is actually undervalued as he can fit on most any team. Yes we overpaid for Bridges and he does fit next to Brunson but I think if we want to upgrade this team it has to be KAT and Bridges.

I think we take Game 5 at home btw!

Really think we missed DDV this post season.

Brunson being treated as god-like is going to be a/the problem going forward - will be interesting to see if front office will make right decisions.

We are seeing some of the issues Becky Hammon pointed to in terms of Jalen and being at that top/top tier.

Are you honestly suggesting trading Brunson lol

I’m suggesting that his play to contract $ may become a major issue in a few years and he takes a significant beating every night.

We have 4 years starting next season to worry about that.

You mean he’s not due for new deal for 4 years? I didn’t realize that - is that right?

The 4 year extension he just signed begins the 2025-26 season.

https://www.nba.com/news/jalen-brunson-knicks-extension

nycericanguy
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5/28/2025  7:49 AM
Hali stepped up and won them the game. Drafting Obi over him was such a monumental mistake. Leon Rose has done great but he got off to a horrible start in that draft.
nycericanguy
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5/28/2025  7:50 AM
IND has simply been the better team so far, and that game 1 is really coming back to haunt us. Giving that game away really might have done us in.
Game Thread: ECF Game 4 @ Pacers 8PM TNT

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