dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks have done about as good a job of bolstering this roster to cover for player flaws as they can. However, in the end Woody is the one responsible for getting all of his players to step up their effort in areas where they are weak. Part of the issue last year was that we broke down health wise. Tyson was weaker in that playoff against Hibbert. Tyson has had mostly good games against Hibbert in the past but he was weak and Hibbert was able to take advantage of it. Also we lost the other bigs we would likely have used against West. The Knicks have been building the roster to fix that issue. AB is part of that but we also have other players that have been added to help in that regard. It's not just one thing that will get the Knicks to the next level. It's not just rebounding. It's not just defense. It's also a more diversified offense and a more efficient offense. That's what this team was built for. Improvement in all of those areas.

i am sincerely trying to sympathize with your take on things-- but all i see here is fallout of a decision made in february 2011. do you know what happens when you purchase the services of older players? you risk their getting injured at a far higher rate than younger players. you also have to watch their minutes.

sheed was great. 296 minutes.
camby? an invisible 250 minutes.
kmart 431 minutes... have to see how he holds up and must admit he was good for us.
prigioni should have been starting far earlier in the season to preserve kidd if nothing else. i am optimistic about him.

you see, the knicks were forced to go for an old team-- not a "veteran" team, an old one. that's what happens when you make a bad trade.

now they are trying to package a retread as a "second scoring option" who is basically an taller version of melo. we need less of this sort on our team not more!

just a sickening approach to building a team but hey-- i can't wait for this guy and the knick squad to exceed my expectations especially if he possesses a genuine pick and roll game and from BOTH roles. then of course that depends on what woodson does with it. a good pick and roll game is essential to most championship teams.

but older players and retreads is what we are trying to contend with, with melo as the "best" player.

sheed was great. 296 minutes.
camby? an invisible 250 minutes.
kmart 431 minutes... have to see how he holds up and must admit he was good for us.
prigioni should have been starting far earlier in the season to preserve kidd if nothing else. i am optimistic about him.

I do think that these guys, prigs, camby, Kmart can be even more effective in the right environment. one less dysfunctional than what we have.. one in which they are not expected to carry much of a load, but be a key piece in a well oiled machine. The problem is, we had to count on guys like Kenyon and Kidd and sheed so much, because we had so many deficiencies.... these guys are not at the point in their careers anymore where they can do that....

Then you add in reclamation projects like bargnani and you can tend to confuse matters more... I just don't see this as a way to build a contender, let alone a championship team... especially when your best player is as flawed as ours is..

Anji wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

I'm guessing you watched the Pacers series, please name me who was making plays to help Carmelo Anthony or the Knicks get past the Pacers? Your saying the Knicks added talent every yr, okay what talent stepped up and made plays vs the Pacers? The stats you are showing me doesn't explain how Tyson went from 10.7rebs a game to 6. Is Carmelo's usage rate and per the cause of that?

Hibbert doesn't have to leave the paint so our ability to run the PNR or get penetration to cause any type of ball movement is crippled making Felton and Tyson less effective offensively. A lot of you guys act like they just decided not to move the ball around. Almost all penetration is rendered non effective since Hibbert just patrolled the paint and we weren't getting any contact calls. Melo playing in the post isn't strong enough to post up West and has Hibbert to back him up. Melo playing on the perimeter allows George one of the best perimeter defenders in the game who is hard to shoot over with his height and length an easier assignment since he knows he has Hibbert clogging the paint he can focus on pressing Melo. When Melo did penetrate it resulted in contact non calls. The only real counter we had was to be able to nail 3s. Problem though is being able to create the open looks since we couldn't post up or penetrate or run our PNRs.

Your stats are only telling me the end result without explaining the y it happened which can only be known by watching the game. Just saying Carmelo should have got more ast or shot better isn't saying much. What the Knicks needed was a matchup to exploit to cause some type of ripple effect as Indy is built well to guard against Carmelo's strengths.

LOL, nan it was Woodson. He told the team not to play the way they did to win 2 games, or at the very lease that is the reasoning I get from reading certain post around.

Pacers, mostly Hibert, has nothing to do with the way they played.

Whether you like him or not, does anyone ever wonder how Woody has such a good record with us? It's 72-34. Reading these boards (and I agree with some of the stuff), it seems like his defensive strategy is stupid (switch on everything), he can't coach offense and he's poor at making ajustments. So I don't get why he has such a good record- and he's done it with a tonne of injuries- how?!

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:so can people show the numbers of Melo teammates shooting a better % when he is off the floor or the team's efficiency when off the floor? Could they also give me hockey assist numbers, box out %, kobe assist and all the other inside stats teams keep.

Can they give a run down of other team's inside stats too.

Game 6. vs the pacers, the team was playing extremely well before he checked back in.

If I recall correctly Boston make that ridiculous run with Melo on the floor nearly blowing a 26 point lead with his superstar worthy 7-23 from the field.

He actually had 5 assists in that game, nothing hockey about it, when he passes the guys can make a shot if he trusts them.

But shooting 7-23...1-6 from three, when other starter are 5-9 and 4-6 from three like Pablo was....and Shumpert 6-9 and hit all of his threes, dont tell me he didnt have help....even tyson was 50% from the field in that game.

Trust your teammates, thats why quite a few of them complained about the offense....it's a joke when no one else is involved.

so that's a no?

Also, you pointed out 3 low usage players that have a problem increasing their usage. TS% doesn't count the open shots players pass up either so while low usage players stats look nice and pretty they could be hurting the team.

Does Melo need to improve? Heck yeah.

regarding the injury: the shoulder seem to alter his mechanics and prevent him from using his off hand when dribbling like he was accustomed to. He should have shot less in the Boston series though.

they are low usage because the player with the high usage wont make plays for them.

The proof is there, those guys had productions when used.....they shot better from three than melo did for instance.

Lets just use threes since the team is a three point shooting club.

In the playoffs, out of all player who took over 10 threes....

melo and JR both shot below 30% from three...yet took the most.

Shump 42%...had more makes than Melo and took 15 less threes.....totally shameful.

Pablo does not shoot at all and hit 13 threes at 43%....4 less than melo and took a whopping 27 less threes....further patheticness.

Recall all those airballs that Cope had in Boston? He certainly made it going for 47% from three overall.

I used these three guys for one reason only.....they have the least playoff experience...yet were productive overall.

dont tell me melo didnt have help....make a play and he'll see he does.

Melo played 12mins per game more then Shump, 20mins per game more then Pablo, and 30mins per game more then Copeland. He took 1.3 more 3pt attempts then Shump in + 12mins, 2.1 more 3s then Pablo in + 20mins and 2.2 more 3s then Cope in + 30mins

Melo took 1 3 per 8.3mins
Shump took 1 3 per 8.0mins
Pablo took 1 3 per 7.6mins
Cope took 1 3 per 3.9mins

Meaning in the mins they played they all took more 3s per min then Carmelo did.

Game 6: Melo shot 4 3s in 41mins, Shump shot 6 3s in 25mins, Pablo shot 5 3s in 29mins, Cope shot 6 3s in 19mins. That's 17-4 if your keeping score

At the same token Kevin Martin and Derek Fisher shot 37% and 44% from 3 compared to Durant who shot at 31.4%. According to your own logic Kevin Martin and Fisher gave Durant all the help he needed to get past 2nd rd.

The problem with this as well is it only takes into account one aspect of the game, Hibbert abusing our frontcourt, outrebounding, getting them in foul trouble and stopping all in paint activity is what won them the series. He not only produced himself but eliminated production from us. He played like the best Center in the East during the playoffs and we had no answer for him. And if Chris Bosh was like Tyson and wasn't able to hit those 18-20 footers then Miami would have been in trouble to.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:so can people show the numbers of Melo teammates shooting a better % when he is off the floor or the team's efficiency when off the floor? Could they also give me hockey assist numbers, box out %, kobe assist and all the other inside stats teams keep.

Can they give a run down of other team's inside stats too.

Game 6. vs the pacers, the team was playing extremely well before he checked back in.

If I recall correctly Boston make that ridiculous run with Melo on the floor nearly blowing a 26 point lead with his superstar worthy 7-23 from the field.

He actually had 5 assists in that game, nothing hockey about it, when he passes the guys can make a shot if he trusts them.

But shooting 7-23...1-6 from three, when other starter are 5-9 and 4-6 from three like Pablo was....and Shumpert 6-9 and hit all of his threes, dont tell me he didnt have help....even tyson was 50% from the field in that game.

Trust your teammates, thats why quite a few of them complained about the offense....it's a joke when no one else is involved.

so that's a no?

Also, you pointed out 3 low usage players that have a problem increasing their usage. TS% doesn't count the open shots players pass up either so while low usage players stats look nice and pretty they could be hurting the team.

Does Melo need to improve? Heck yeah.

regarding the injury: the shoulder seem to alter his mechanics and prevent him from using his off hand when dribbling like he was accustomed to. He should have shot less in the Boston series though.

they are low usage because the player with the high usage wont make plays for them.

The proof is there, those guys had productions when used.....they shot better from three than melo did for instance.

Lets just use threes since the team is a three point shooting club.

In the playoffs, out of all player who took over 10 threes....

melo and JR both shot below 30% from three...yet took the most.

Shump 42%...had more makes than Melo and took 15 less threes.....totally shameful.

Pablo does not shoot at all and hit 13 threes at 43%....4 less than melo and took a whopping 27 less threes....further patheticness.

Recall all those airballs that Cope had in Boston? He certainly made it going for 47% from three overall.

I used these three guys for one reason only.....they have the least playoff experience...yet were productive overall.

dont tell me melo didnt have help....make a play and he'll see he does.

Melo played 12mins per game more then Shump, 20mins per game more then Pablo, and 30mins per game more then Copeland. He took 1.3 more 3pt attempts then Shump in + 12mins, 2.1 more 3s then Pablo in + 20mins and 2.2 more 3s then Cope in + 30mins

Melo took 1 3 per 8.3mins
Shump took 1 3 per 8.0mins
Pablo took 1 3 per 7.6mins
Cope took 1 3 per 3.9mins

Meaning in the mins they played they all took more 3s per min then Carmelo did.

Game 6: Melo shot 4 3s in 41mins, Shump shot 6 3s in 25mins, Pablo shot 5 3s in 29mins, Cope shot 6 3s in 19mins. That's 17-4 if your keeping score

At the same token Kevin Martin and Derek Fisher shot 37% and 44% from 3 compared to Durant who shot at 31.4%. According to your own logic Kevin Martin and Fisher gave Durant all the help he needed to get past 2nd rd.

The problem with this as well is it only takes into account one aspect of the game, Hibbert abusing our frontcourt, outrebounding, getting them in foul trouble and stopping all in paint activity is what won them the series. He not only produced himself but eliminated production from us. He played like the best Center in the East during the playoffs and we had no answer for him. And if Chris Bosh was like Tyson and wasn't able to hit those 18-20 footers then Miami would have been in trouble to.

But the point from the start is simple....you cannot have a usage of near 40 and not be a playmaker...you are giving your team a slow death.

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:so can people show the numbers of Melo teammates shooting a better % when he is off the floor or the team's efficiency when off the floor? Could they also give me hockey assist numbers, box out %, kobe assist and all the other inside stats teams keep.

Can they give a run down of other team's inside stats too.

Game 6. vs the pacers, the team was playing extremely well before he checked back in.

If I recall correctly Boston make that ridiculous run with Melo on the floor nearly blowing a 26 point lead with his superstar worthy 7-23 from the field.

He actually had 5 assists in that game, nothing hockey about it, when he passes the guys can make a shot if he trusts them.

But shooting 7-23...1-6 from three, when other starter are 5-9 and 4-6 from three like Pablo was....and Shumpert 6-9 and hit all of his threes, dont tell me he didnt have help....even tyson was 50% from the field in that game.

Trust your teammates, thats why quite a few of them complained about the offense....it's a joke when no one else is involved.

so that's a no?

Also, you pointed out 3 low usage players that have a problem increasing their usage. TS% doesn't count the open shots players pass up either so while low usage players stats look nice and pretty they could be hurting the team.

Does Melo need to improve? Heck yeah.

regarding the injury: the shoulder seem to alter his mechanics and prevent him from using his off hand when dribbling like he was accustomed to. He should have shot less in the Boston series though.

they are low usage because the player with the high usage wont make plays for them.

The proof is there, those guys had productions when used.....they shot better from three than melo did for instance.

Lets just use threes since the team is a three point shooting club.

In the playoffs, out of all player who took over 10 threes....

melo and JR both shot below 30% from three...yet took the most.

Shump 42%...had more makes than Melo and took 15 less threes.....totally shameful.

Pablo does not shoot at all and hit 13 threes at 43%....4 less than melo and took a whopping 27 less threes....further patheticness.

Recall all those airballs that Cope had in Boston? He certainly made it going for 47% from three overall.

I used these three guys for one reason only.....they have the least playoff experience...yet were productive overall.

dont tell me melo didnt have help....make a play and he'll see he does.

Melo played 12mins per game more then Shump, 20mins per game more then Pablo, and 30mins per game more then Copeland. He took 1.3 more 3pt attempts then Shump in + 12mins, 2.1 more 3s then Pablo in + 20mins and 2.2 more 3s then Cope in + 30mins

Melo took 1 3 per 8.3mins
Shump took 1 3 per 8.0mins
Pablo took 1 3 per 7.6mins
Cope took 1 3 per 3.9mins

Meaning in the mins they played they all took more 3s per min then Carmelo did.

Game 6: Melo shot 4 3s in 41mins, Shump shot 6 3s in 25mins, Pablo shot 5 3s in 29mins, Cope shot 6 3s in 19mins. That's 17-4 if your keeping score

At the same token Kevin Martin and Derek Fisher shot 37% and 44% from 3 compared to Durant who shot at 31.4%. According to your own logic Kevin Martin and Fisher gave Durant all the help he needed to get past 2nd rd.

The problem with this as well is it only takes into account one aspect of the game, Hibbert abusing our frontcourt, outrebounding, getting them in foul trouble and stopping all in paint activity is what won them the series. He not only produced himself but eliminated production from us. He played like the best Center in the East during the playoffs and we had no answer for him. And if Chris Bosh was like Tyson and wasn't able to hit those 18-20 footers then Miami would have been in trouble to.

Here is the issue with your assessment, those players got their production off Durant's PLAYMAKING, there is a reason why he averaged 6 dimes in the playoffs....our guys got their production despite Melo, only one game did he actually look for them, and when he did they produced....but they were productive the whole time but were not used.

But the point from the start is simple....you cannot have a usage of near 40 and not be a playmaker...you are giving your team a slow death.

You originally stated that Durant's teammates let him down which is why they lost. But yet he had 2 players shooting at 37% and 44% off his playmaking. Maybe if he had a player that could produce at a high level without relying on his playmaking(ala like Westbrook and Harden did) they would have won that series.

Exactly the reason why the best player in the NBA left Cleveland to pair up with Wade and Bosh.

misterearl wrote:Not to discredit Woodson but lots of teams can win games in the regular season, and his system promotes alot of shots...alot of shots equal alot of points.

Knicks city - in the two decades prior, how many years did the Knicks miss the playoffs before Mike Woodson?

Lots of teams attend the NBA draft lottery every year. Some on a regular basis.

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:so can people show the numbers of Melo teammates shooting a better % when he is off the floor or the team's efficiency when off the floor? Could they also give me hockey assist numbers, box out %, kobe assist and all the other inside stats teams keep.

Can they give a run down of other team's inside stats too.

Game 6. vs the pacers, the team was playing extremely well before he checked back in.

If I recall correctly Boston make that ridiculous run with Melo on the floor nearly blowing a 26 point lead with his superstar worthy 7-23 from the field.

He actually had 5 assists in that game, nothing hockey about it, when he passes the guys can make a shot if he trusts them.

But shooting 7-23...1-6 from three, when other starter are 5-9 and 4-6 from three like Pablo was....and Shumpert 6-9 and hit all of his threes, dont tell me he didnt have help....even tyson was 50% from the field in that game.

Trust your teammates, thats why quite a few of them complained about the offense....it's a joke when no one else is involved.

so that's a no?

Also, you pointed out 3 low usage players that have a problem increasing their usage. TS% doesn't count the open shots players pass up either so while low usage players stats look nice and pretty they could be hurting the team.

Does Melo need to improve? Heck yeah.

regarding the injury: the shoulder seem to alter his mechanics and prevent him from using his off hand when dribbling like he was accustomed to. He should have shot less in the Boston series though.

they are low usage because the player with the high usage wont make plays for them.

The proof is there, those guys had productions when used.....they shot better from three than melo did for instance.

Lets just use threes since the team is a three point shooting club.

In the playoffs, out of all player who took over 10 threes....

melo and JR both shot below 30% from three...yet took the most.

Shump 42%...had more makes than Melo and took 15 less threes.....totally shameful.

Pablo does not shoot at all and hit 13 threes at 43%....4 less than melo and took a whopping 27 less threes....further patheticness.

Recall all those airballs that Cope had in Boston? He certainly made it going for 47% from three overall.

I used these three guys for one reason only.....they have the least playoff experience...yet were productive overall.

dont tell me melo didnt have help....make a play and he'll see he does.

Melo played 12mins per game more then Shump, 20mins per game more then Pablo, and 30mins per game more then Copeland. He took 1.3 more 3pt attempts then Shump in + 12mins, 2.1 more 3s then Pablo in + 20mins and 2.2 more 3s then Cope in + 30mins

Melo took 1 3 per 8.3mins
Shump took 1 3 per 8.0mins
Pablo took 1 3 per 7.6mins
Cope took 1 3 per 3.9mins

Meaning in the mins they played they all took more 3s per min then Carmelo did.

Game 6: Melo shot 4 3s in 41mins, Shump shot 6 3s in 25mins, Pablo shot 5 3s in 29mins, Cope shot 6 3s in 19mins. That's 17-4 if your keeping score

At the same token Kevin Martin and Derek Fisher shot 37% and 44% from 3 compared to Durant who shot at 31.4%. According to your own logic Kevin Martin and Fisher gave Durant all the help he needed to get past 2nd rd.

The problem with this as well is it only takes into account one aspect of the game, Hibbert abusing our frontcourt, outrebounding, getting them in foul trouble and stopping all in paint activity is what won them the series. He not only produced himself but eliminated production from us. He played like the best Center in the East during the playoffs and we had no answer for him. And if Chris Bosh was like Tyson and wasn't able to hit those 18-20 footers then Miami would have been in trouble to.

Here is the issue with your assessment, those players got their production off Durant's PLAYMAKING, there is a reason why he averaged 6 dimes in the playoffs....our guys got their production despite Melo, only one game did he actually look for them, and when he did they produced....but they were productive the whole time but were not used.

But the point from the start is simple....you cannot have a usage of near 40 and not be a playmaker...you are giving your team a slow death.

You originally stated that Durant's teammates let him down which is why they lost. But yet he had 2 players shooting at 37% and 44% off his playmaking. Maybe if he had a player that could produce at a high level without relying on his playmaking(ala like Westbrook and Harden did) they would have won that series.

Exactly the reason why the best player in the NBA left Cleveland to pair up with Wade and Bosh.

They lost to a better team, and yes his teammates did let him down, their scoring only came from durants playmaking, they couldnt do anything on their own....which was the point from the start.

Our guys could create their own offense, and they werent assisted by melo.

Cope Pablo and Shump proved they could generate their own offense and some of that near 40% usage should have went to them....some K-Mart and Fisher especially cannot do at this stage of their careers....they are nothing but spot up shooter now.

The difference between Durants high usage was his playmaking, but the guy lead his team in almost EVERY category from scoring to assists after WB went down, and rebounding....melo cannot say this at all.

Melo has lost to better teams the majority of his playoff tenure. Doesn't stop ppl from bashing his playoff record. We agree on some things, that you need multiple playmakers and that Melo's usage would need to be lowered. Cope, Pablo, Shump don't create offense at a high enough level to be taken seriously in those roles. If that's the case Reggie Jackson could create his own offense and K-mart even at this stage of his career is better offensively then Cope, Pablo and Shump. What we were doing vs Indy wasn't working though so can't say that I'm against that viewpoint. To really win though i'm talking Westbrook and Harden level. Clearly those are the level of playmakers you need to advance deep in the playoffs.

Ibaka has been an above 50% finisher all his career. When Westbrook went down Ibaka's FG% dropped down to 33% over the 9 game span. For all Durant's playmaking Ibaka's % went down drastically.

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:so can people show the numbers of Melo teammates shooting a better % when he is off the floor or the team's efficiency when off the floor? Could they also give me hockey assist numbers, box out %, kobe assist and all the other inside stats teams keep.

Can they give a run down of other team's inside stats too.

Game 6. vs the pacers, the team was playing extremely well before he checked back in.

If I recall correctly Boston make that ridiculous run with Melo on the floor nearly blowing a 26 point lead with his superstar worthy 7-23 from the field.

He actually had 5 assists in that game, nothing hockey about it, when he passes the guys can make a shot if he trusts them.

But shooting 7-23...1-6 from three, when other starter are 5-9 and 4-6 from three like Pablo was....and Shumpert 6-9 and hit all of his threes, dont tell me he didnt have help....even tyson was 50% from the field in that game.

Trust your teammates, thats why quite a few of them complained about the offense....it's a joke when no one else is involved.

so that's a no?

Also, you pointed out 3 low usage players that have a problem increasing their usage. TS% doesn't count the open shots players pass up either so while low usage players stats look nice and pretty they could be hurting the team.

Does Melo need to improve? Heck yeah.

regarding the injury: the shoulder seem to alter his mechanics and prevent him from using his off hand when dribbling like he was accustomed to. He should have shot less in the Boston series though.

they are low usage because the player with the high usage wont make plays for them.

The proof is there, those guys had productions when used.....they shot better from three than melo did for instance.

Lets just use threes since the team is a three point shooting club.

In the playoffs, out of all player who took over 10 threes....

melo and JR both shot below 30% from three...yet took the most.

Shump 42%...had more makes than Melo and took 15 less threes.....totally shameful.

Pablo does not shoot at all and hit 13 threes at 43%....4 less than melo and took a whopping 27 less threes....further patheticness.

Recall all those airballs that Cope had in Boston? He certainly made it going for 47% from three overall.

I used these three guys for one reason only.....they have the least playoff experience...yet were productive overall.

dont tell me melo didnt have help....make a play and he'll see he does.

Melo played 12mins per game more then Shump, 20mins per game more then Pablo, and 30mins per game more then Copeland. He took 1.3 more 3pt attempts then Shump in + 12mins, 2.1 more 3s then Pablo in + 20mins and 2.2 more 3s then Cope in + 30mins

Melo took 1 3 per 8.3mins
Shump took 1 3 per 8.0mins
Pablo took 1 3 per 7.6mins
Cope took 1 3 per 3.9mins

Meaning in the mins they played they all took more 3s per min then Carmelo did.

Game 6: Melo shot 4 3s in 41mins, Shump shot 6 3s in 25mins, Pablo shot 5 3s in 29mins, Cope shot 6 3s in 19mins. That's 17-4 if your keeping score

At the same token Kevin Martin and Derek Fisher shot 37% and 44% from 3 compared to Durant who shot at 31.4%. According to your own logic Kevin Martin and Fisher gave Durant all the help he needed to get past 2nd rd.

The problem with this as well is it only takes into account one aspect of the game, Hibbert abusing our frontcourt, outrebounding, getting them in foul trouble and stopping all in paint activity is what won them the series. He not only produced himself but eliminated production from us. He played like the best Center in the East during the playoffs and we had no answer for him. And if Chris Bosh was like Tyson and wasn't able to hit those 18-20 footers then Miami would have been in trouble to.

Here is the issue with your assessment, those players got their production off Durant's PLAYMAKING, there is a reason why he averaged 6 dimes in the playoffs....our guys got their production despite Melo, only one game did he actually look for them, and when he did they produced....but they were productive the whole time but were not used.

But the point from the start is simple....you cannot have a usage of near 40 and not be a playmaker...you are giving your team a slow death.

You originally stated that Durant's teammates let him down which is why they lost. But yet he had 2 players shooting at 37% and 44% off his playmaking. Maybe if he had a player that could produce at a high level without relying on his playmaking(ala like Westbrook and Harden did) they would have won that series.

Exactly the reason why the best player in the NBA left Cleveland to pair up with Wade and Bosh.

They lost to a better team, and yes his teammates did let him down, their scoring only came from durants playmaking, they couldnt do anything on their own....which was the point from the start.

Our guys could create their own offense, and they werent assisted by melo.

Cope Pablo and Shump proved they could generate their own offense and some of that near 40% usage should have went to them....some K-Mart and Fisher especially cannot do at this stage of their careers....they are nothing but spot up shooter now.

The difference between Durants high usage was his playmaking, but the guy lead his team in almost EVERY category from scoring to assists after WB went down, and rebounding....melo cannot say this at all.

Melo has lost to better teams the majority of his playoff tenure. Doesn't stop ppl from bashing his playoff record. We agree on some things, that you need multiple playmakers and that Melo's usage would need to be lowered. Cope, Pablo, Shump don't create offense at a high enough level to be taken seriously in those roles. If that's the case Reggie Jackson could create his own offense and K-mart even at this stage of his career is better offensively then Cope, Pablo and Shump. What we were doing vs Indy wasn't working though so can't say that I'm against that viewpoint. To really win though i'm talking Westbrook and Harden level. Clearly those are the level of playmakers you need to advance deep in the playoffs.

Ibaka has been an above 50% finisher all his career. When Westbrook went down Ibaka's FG% dropped down to 33% over the 9 game span. For all Durant's playmaking Ibaka's % went down drastically.

We're so close, but you're missing the point.

My concern about melo isnt about him losing in the playoffs, to lose means you got there.

The issue is the high usage guys ARE PLAYMAKERS....Melo is the only exception.

but that wouldnt be a major issue, if melo was efficient at what he does most....but he isnt so it only compounds the problem.

The idea of him not having help is thoroughly disproven...he had help, and these guys dont have to be on the level of westbrook or Harden.....even mario Chalmers can score 20 points in a game, if his teammates trust him to do so.

One night it's him, another it's some else....the Knicks could be similar to that....if allowed.

Melo can affect that outcome, he has talent.

talent or skill? can't leave out mindset either.

durant has enjoyed a steady trend upwards his entire career in terms of scoring efficiency as well as playmaking. we have all read that this is what he wanted to work on and we have all heard jvg say many times "see, this is what he needs to do to make that next step-- be a playmaker for others." it has been said when we see durant in the lane drawing contact and trying to put up a little contested 5-7 footer instead of finding an open teammate, be it a cutter or a perimeter guy. part of the challenge is his leaving his feet, and really only lebron james has been able to get away with that. still, durant WANTS to be make those plays. the issue is court vision as well, of course.

if durant can learn to find someone more and more in those situations instead of trying to draw a foul (which is a good alternative in terms of TS% as it is) then he will eventually be able to challenge lebron james for the most part. where he will likely fall short is as a defender compared with lebron james.

carmelo anthony? we have witnessed no such steady trend upwards. his game has remained the same-- stagnant really.

people want to always place responsibility on carmelo anthony's "supporting casts" but you can't keep using that excuse year after year without also acknowledging that this guy's game really has not gotten any better year after year either.

some people want to say that melo has been to the playoffs every year whereas durant missed the first two years. who has had the better career? who has evolved?

dk7th wrote:talent or skill? can't leave out mindset either.

durant has enjoyed a steady trend upwards his entire career in terms of scoring efficiency as well as playmaking. we have all read that this is what he wanted to work on and we have all heard jvg say many times "see, this is what he needs to do to make that next step-- be a playmaker for others." it has been said when we see durant in the lane drawing contact and trying to put up a little contested 5-7 footer instead of finding an open teammate, be it a cutter or a perimeter guy. part of the challenge is his leaving his feet, and really only lebron james has been able to get away with that. still, durant WANTS to be make those plays. the issue is court vision as well, of course.

if durant can learn to find someone more and more in those situations instead of trying to draw a foul (which is a good alternative in terms of TS% as it is) then he will eventually be able to challenge lebron james for the most part. where he will likely fall short is as a defender compared with lebron james.

carmelo anthony? we have witnessed no such steady trend upwards. his game has remained the same-- stagnant really.

people want to always place responsibility on carmelo anthony's "supporting casts" but you can't keep using that excuse year after year without also acknowledging that this guy's game really has not gotten any better year after year either.

some people want to say that melo has been to the playoffs every year whereas durant missed the first two years. who has had the better career? who has evolved?