TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:so you just agreed with dk.. they built around a philosophy..... a style of play and a coach.. lawson just happened to be there already, doesn't mean they build around him.. all of their moves were made to build around their coach and style of play.... which is why they got mcgee, iggy, etc....

Heres what I dont get: both you and DK believe that the Knicks have done the opposite of the Nuggets in regard to building the team around the coaches style of play, correct? Well, Grunwald did do that with Woodson. It was Donnie Walsh that didnt do that with D'antoni.

Wasn't the Knicks plan to get two stars? I believe that was walsh's plan from day one. That was why the roster was gutted for 2 years and the mcgrady fleecing happened.

CrushAlot wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:so you just agreed with dk.. they built around a philosophy..... a style of play and a coach.. lawson just happened to be there already, doesn't mean they build around him.. all of their moves were made to build around their coach and style of play.... which is why they got mcgee, iggy, etc....

Heres what I dont get: both you and DK believe that the Knicks have done the opposite of the Nuggets in regard to building the team around the coaches style of play, correct? Well, Grunwald did do that with Woodson. It was Donnie Walsh that didnt do that with D'antoni.

Wasn't the Knicks plan to get two stars? I believe that was walsh's plan from day one. That was why the roster was gutted for 2 years and the mcgrady fleecing happened.

But remember Walsh wasn't about getting any 2 stars at any cost....Melo was more than likely not one of those stars he wanted to get at his price tag. If you recall Walsh said....

"A free agent can be good at one price and not so good at another"(this would include signing and trading for a player and paying him)

Problem with Walsh he was slow easily pressured by situations he didn't have to make and tried to appease 1 too many people.

We have no choice at this point than to ride the Mirage until the Wheels fall off...."Tomorrow Is Gonna Come"

TeamBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:so you just agreed with dk.. they built around a philosophy..... a style of play and a coach.. lawson just happened to be there already, doesn't mean they build around him.. all of their moves were made to build around their coach and style of play.... which is why they got mcgee, iggy, etc....

Heres what I dont get: both you and DK believe that the Knicks have done the opposite of the Nuggets in regard to building the team around the coaches style of play, correct? Well, Grunwald did do that with Woodson. It was Donnie Walsh that didnt do that with D'antoni.

Wasn't the Knicks plan to get two stars? I believe that was walsh's plan from day one. That was why the roster was gutted for 2 years and the mcgrady fleecing happened.

Yeah it was his plan. It was also a plan that the entire league was aware and that made every trade that much more difficult. My point though was that Grunwald worked with Woodson to put together the roster he wanted. Walsh didnt exactly do that.

when you are ready to compare apples to apples it can be a discussion worth having. until then keep rewriting history.

smackeddog wrote:Did you see this from last night?:

Ouch! People are laughing about it, and even the ref is on that video, but according to league rules isn't that an automatic suspension? (making contact with the ref)- the league has been ridiculously strict with that

LMAO. Please, please, please sombody make a GIF out of this. Especially at the final few seconds of the video where it looked like Boozer intentionally punched the ref in the private and then made a face at him.

knickscity wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:so you just agreed with dk.. they built around a philosophy..... a style of play and a coach.. lawson just happened to be there already, doesn't mean they build around him.. all of their moves were made to build around their coach and style of play.... which is why they got mcgee, iggy, etc....

Heres what I dont get: both you and DK believe that the Knicks have done the opposite of the Nuggets in regard to building the team around the coaches style of play, correct? Well, Grunwald did do that with Woodson. It was Donnie Walsh that didnt do that with D'antoni.

no not really, what is woodson's philosophy? what is his style? what is the knicks style? what is the knicks identity?

Not really? So Woodson had nothing to do with getting the players on the team?

I don't know teamball can you confirm that he did? supposedly he wanted lin.. what happened with that?

He wanted Sheed and he got him. So what does that mean?
Im saying he had input on the roster we have now which means that the Knicks dont just put together rosters without involving their coaches. Do you disagree?

I can't believe this convo is being had.

Woodson loves vets, even stated youngsters dont win chips, vets do.

Didn't play Teague in Atlanta because he was young, and opted for Mike Bibby and Crawford.

This team pretty much was handpicked by Woodson.

novak, carmelo, chandler, amare, shumpert were all here before woodson became coach. if you are giving him credit for camby, sheed, kidd, JR and now kenyon.. have at it.. I am not sure that is something to brag about...

tkf wrote:this team was thrown together, and if woodson had any input on it, they should never ask him again.... Dk's point was that this team was put together with little thought, I believe that 100% and if they did have to think about putting this senior citizen roster together, then we are in deep trouble for years to come...

dk7th wrote:at this point it seems like chandler has missed as many games as gallinari. i could be wrong. your "building around" statement is questionable. the team is an extension of the coach's approach and will. they found players they wanted that fit the style of the coach. that's smart. gallinari should be better than he is and it's that 3-point shot that is holding him back. to get to the next level he has to achieve 40% from three. then he an all-star. meanwhile his long-range shooting could prove fatal in the playoffs. but then he isn't alone. lawson and iguodala need to tighten up their games too. good news is they are all still young.

and the knicks? they didn't take the denver route of coaching style dictating roster. they acquired talent willy-nilly with no thought to the coach's style of play and no thought to find talent that fits or core players who are even capable of meshing. they behaved like monkeys flinging their poopy at a blank canvas. someone came along and called it "art" and many people take it as such.

This is what DK said. The bold is what I disagreed with. Hes clearly saying the Knicks put this roster together with no regard for what Woodson wanted or needed to be successful (assuming hes talking about Woodson. He never answered my question). Im asking him how he believes that when Woodson worked with Grunwald to put this roster together.

dk7th wrote:and i did respond. i said whenever you're ready to compare apples to apples.

what that means is that walsh was clearing roster space for a shot at lebron james. when that failed walsh decided that he was going to build a roster based on d'antoni's needs, starting with stoudemire as a pick and roll finisher who can hit a midrange jumper when necessary-- yes he was a flawed backup plan, emphasis on "plan," but then walsh was going to upgrade at point guard ASAP. felton was an interim stopgap until something better became available. that's why that contract was so good for the knicks, two years and a few million dollars.

this was a discernible plan, and was worth investing two full years in allowing to come to fruition, especially after two years of sacrifice via roster flush. yes, d'antoni was paid for those two years, but he was paid to try to put a competitive team out there knowing full well it was an impossible task to eke out more than 25-30 wins for those two years while walsh kept clearing cap space.

as soon as dolan stepped in all plans were scrapped. gallinari, chandler, mozgov, felton all traded. walsh "retired." stoudemire marginalized. fields marginalized.

now fast forward. you have 2 huge contracts locked up in two players who cannot thrive or mesh. that's willy-nilly part 1 AND INFORMS EVERY OTHER DECISION. and that's dolan. dolan closed a deal that walsh was unwilling to close so it's dolan. dolan's ugly interference. DUI

you amnesty an aging point guard to acquire an aging center with no offensive skills and expect the 3 biggest contract players to mesh. basically it's pick your poison. you need a defender badly but sacrifice a point guard to do it. that's willy-nilly part 2, with a soupcon of lateral move.

you then refuse to keep a promising young point guard who clearly has orchestrating skills-- dolan ugly interference again DUI-- and re-acquire the same interim-stopgap point guard walsh himself was ready to upgrade as soon as a better guard became available. this interim stopgap point guard has no discernible orchestrating skills and will never succeed in getting the three-headed 55 million dollar monster to cohere not in a million years. that's willy-nilly part3 and brings us to the summer of 2012.

now you are saying that grunwald sat down with his coach in late july 2012 and asks "what do you need? i have 15 million dollars to spend."

However, your first point doesnt support your argument very well because D'antoni didnt want Amare. Amare threw D'antoni under the bus after he left Phoenix and because of that they had to have a meeting to "clear the air" after he was signed. Also, didnt it recently come out that he didnt even want Amare but wanted to keep Lee?

Im not gonna get into the Melo trade.

Now, I obviously dont know what conversation went on with Woodson and Grunwald but I do this its fairly obvious that this is a roster he wanted. The fact that he was able to reach out to Sheed and bring him out of retirement for us doesnt exactly seem like Grunwald was making all the decisions and Woodson had to just watch. I agree, the Knicks didnt work with D'antoni to get him the team he needed but they did with Woodson. Why do you not believe that?

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:and i did respond. i said whenever you're ready to compare apples to apples.

what that means is that walsh was clearing roster space for a shot at lebron james. when that failed walsh decided that he was going to build a roster based on d'antoni's needs, starting with stoudemire as a pick and roll finisher who can hit a midrange jumper when necessary-- yes he was a flawed backup plan, emphasis on "plan," but then walsh was going to upgrade at point guard ASAP. felton was an interim stopgap until something better became available. that's why that contract was so good for the knicks, two years and a few million dollars.

this was a discernible plan, and was worth investing two full years in allowing to come to fruition, especially after two years of sacrifice via roster flush. yes, d'antoni was paid for those two years, but he was paid to try to put a competitive team out there knowing full well it was an impossible task to eke out more than 25-30 wins for those two years while walsh kept clearing cap space.

as soon as dolan stepped in all plans were scrapped. gallinari, chandler, mozgov, felton all traded. walsh "retired." stoudemire marginalized. fields marginalized.

now fast forward. you have 2 huge contracts locked up in two players who cannot thrive or mesh. that's willy-nilly part 1 AND INFORMS EVERY OTHER DECISION. and that's dolan. dolan closed a deal that walsh was unwilling to close so it's dolan. dolan's ugly interference. DUI

you amnesty an aging point guard to acquire an aging center with no offensive skills and expect the 3 biggest contract players to mesh. basically it's pick your poison. you need a defender badly but sacrifice a point guard to do it. that's willy-nilly part 2, with a soupcon of lateral move.

you then refuse to keep a promising young point guard who clearly has orchestrating skills-- dolan ugly interference again DUI-- and re-acquire the same interim-stopgap point guard walsh himself was ready to upgrade as soon as a better guard became available. this interim stopgap point guard has no discernible orchestrating skills and will never succeed in getting the three-headed 55 million dollar monster to cohere not in a million years. that's willy-nilly part3 and brings us to the summer of 2012.

now you are saying that grunwald sat down with his coach in late july 2012 and asks "what do you need? i have 15 million dollars to spend."

I apologize. You did respond

However, your first point doesnt support your argument very well because D'antoni didnt want Amare. Amare threw D'antoni under the bus after he left Phoenix and because of that they had to have a meeting to "clear the air" after he was signed. Also, didnt it recently come out that he didnt even want Amare but wanted to keep Lee?

Im not gonna get into the Melo trade.

1)Now, I obviously dont know what conversation went on with Woodson and Grunwald but I do this its fairly obvious that this is a roster he wanted.
2)The fact that he was able to reach out to Sheed and bring him out of retirement for us doesnt exactly seem like Grunwald was making all the decisions and Woodson had to just watch.
3)I agree, the Knicks didnt work with D'antoni to get him the team he needed but they did with Woodson. 4)Why do you not believe that?

identify who "the knicks" are in sentence (3) please. names like walsh, grunwald, dolan will do.

a difference between apples and oranges is that with apples you have an owner who is not able to coerce the gm. this is not the case with oranges.

nixluva wrote:

Anji wrote:If the Lakers lose to the Mavs tonight, they have about a 25% chance of making the playffs.

So far Lakers are playing like they want it. Kobe is playing like he should by making his teammates better in addition to getting his own shots. When Kobe plays like that the Lakers have a very good record. When he slips back into selfish mode they suffer.

Kobe has to feed D12 to make him happy and then he plays hard. It's a leadership thing that Kobe doesn't always adhere to, but it's how they got back into the playoff race.

Lakers looked really good in the first half. Nice humble speech from Kobe at the half for shaq. Crowder continues to be very impressive. It's hard to believe Dallas and the lakers could both miss the playoffs. "WE WANT PHIL!"