Hey dude. Hey chica... how about doing some phuckin work before you start into what you "deserve."

I can only try to raise my kid differently

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:This is the first time since our early days that a non-politician is POTUS. He will need to time to grow into the role and there will be bumps along the way.

Trump is a man of energy and action. He will try to do many things. Some will work, some will not.

His most important job is to keep the citizens of the USA safe. Then the economy and upholding the constitution. Everything else fills in afterwards. Without security, freedom and prosperity, the other issues are not as important.

The sun is shining today and we are all on the same team. Let's give the him a chance to do right.

Yeah, the way republicans gave our current president a chance (i.e. obstruct everything he wants to do even things they agree with or can compromise on, make sure he has a failed presidency, make sure he's a one term president)?

I know two wrongs don't make a right, but if the Dems stopped playing nice and decided to fight fire with fire I wouldn't lose any sleep.

He has not taken office yet, what are you fighting him about?

He has not been responsible for any policy EVER in this country. He has only stated some opinions and said many words. I prefer to judge by what he actually does when he gets there. It's my hunch he will be a very moderate POTUS.

So let me get this straight, you voted for someone who has never been responsible for any policy EVER and you want to judge him by what he does? Assuming you voted for him, what was the basis for you voting for him again? So you didn't judge him by what he said?

DJT has said many stupid things. Now that he has won, I will judge him as POTUS from January 20th, 2017 and forward.

I am against term limits and career politicians. Being a career politician does not mean you will make good decisions. It means you are bought and sold many times over. HRC made a fortune of being a public servant. They get money from countries that fund ISIS, throw gays off buildings and believe women are nothing more than sex slaves. Yes, they think its ok, because some of it may be used to fight AIDS, while the rest was used for Chelsea's wedding and buying her NYC apartment (that's discussed in the emails ).

In all the wikileak emails, why are they not discussing how to make America a better place and of helping people? Instead they discuss how to fool people and keep their power with donations and taking positions on things. They do not care for us, they only care about the power they can maintain and grow by fooling the masses. Power leads to more money and that is their ultimate goal.

Also, Look at the freak show protests that are going on now with those who feel entitled screaming this is NOT America, need to get a grip. They are the result of the getting a trophy for participating ideology. Getting a day off from college so they can cry about the election? Give me a break. Get a life. Go get a job and do contribute to society instead of crying about a free election that did not go your way because it was assumed HRC was entitled to it.

You gave a ton of reasons why not to vote for Hillary. Again, assuming you voted for Trump what was you basis for supporting him? All I've heard is he's not a career politician. So that's it?

Now I do agree with you regarding the protesters. If they want to protest their rage should be directed to the dems in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin who gave Trump those states.

Here is a list of reasons,I suspect, many did vote for:

in no particular order or importance -

wants to deal with radical islamic terrorism
wants to talked about vetting refugees and slowing down the influx rather than increasing it
restore law and order
secure our borders - ie stopping illegal immigration
lowering taxes on middle class
repeal ACA and replace with something better
protect 2nd ammendment
get rid of common core
supreme court nominations
fair trade deals
bring back American jobs from overseas
repeal regulations imposed by Obama that hurt the economy
balance the budget
make America energy independent
drain the swamp

So in Ohio, Michigan, PA, Wi , NC and Fl - do you think this resonated with people? Apparently it did. Perhaps more so than the constant badgering by the DNC and media that he is this or that.

He went around to these states and held countless of rallies. People heard him speak without the filters of the media. He came across as genuine and people in these states perhaps felt that he connected with them.

The ACA is not the problem. NO PROGRAM is ever perfect and the ACA like most programs needed fixes and more cooperation from Republican Governors. Just remember that this is LITERALLY the Republican Plan for Healthcare that they abandoned simply because Obama was for it. Simple Craven politics.

There will be no "drain the swamp" from Trump. Who is he gonna get rid of in Washington? He has total control of government. All those guys that have been there for years are still there.

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TheGame wrote:At this point, I am fairly convinced that 90% of everything Trump said was total BS, and he is not going to do most of what he claimed. He is never going to get Mexico to pay for a wall. He is not getting term limits passed (which would require a constitutional amendment). He probably is not going to cut regulations to any significant extent and he simply is not smart enough to fix the tax code. He will lower taxes on the rich, he will pull back Obamacare, and he will increase defense spending. Beyond that, I have doubts he will do much else. The real danger is in foreign policy because we have to worry about his temperament, and if he really plans to play the role of isolationist, it may give countries like Iran, North Korea, China, and Russia the opportunity to expand their power. We will just have to wait and see.

I agree with that except the part about regulations. Why do you think he won't cut back regulations? I think he wants corporations to have free reign.
I also think he's very good at selling ideas to the public. Even if he doesn't do 90% of what he said he would or if he does them and things get worse in the country, I worry he'll be able to convince enough people that he's doing a good job.

A lot of Trump's campaign promises were just for show. The Congress will effectively slow him down on the really expensive policy. His Tax policy will create a sugar rush but then inevitably the crash will come.

I think the culture stuff and the Supreme Court will be a huge deal for Progressives to accept. The foreign policy stuff is scary. He's very naive about foreign affairs and that can be dangerous.

Democrats have been running on the 'change' platform for a decade or more now and haven't delivered. Now we have a President elect who might actually follow through with making real changes to our failing systems and Democrats are freaking out and crying gloom and doom for the free world as we know it. It is all just so surreal. Liberal democrats are labeling Trump a racist and yet race relations are as bad as they have ever been under Obama.

Liberal democrats in urban areas employ millions of illegals, paying them sub standard wages and paying nothing into the tax system. These illegals need to join the system, get decent wages and pay their share of taxes. The middle class has been carrying this country on it's shoulders for far to long. Things need to change. I don't think deportation is the answer, but I would like to see everyone who is here illegally pay their fair share of taxes to support the system that they take so much from for nothing.

it was Romney/Ryan, or McCain/Palin, or Bush/Cheney or Bush/Quail or Regan/Bush I would 100% agree with this and say these guys deserve their shot to move things in a better direction. However the commander is chief is a con man who openly trashes women with no accountability, cheats laborers, has a detailed history of discrimination and has shown a very poor temperment. "Balancing" that is Pence, a religious zealot who believes gays can be "cured" with therapy.

Is this a case of "Dems get what they deserve" because of the failures you outlined above? Is this what is best for this country? Maybe it is... maybe we need this level of trash elevated to the highest positions in the land for voters to wake up and mobilize. I guess thats the upside? I do think its kinda funny to hear things like "America has spoken" when HRC won the popular vote (as Gore did). GOP won fair and square, I have no qualms about that... but the rhetoric is funny to say the least.

I do not disagree with you character assessment of the man. At this point I am looking at the policies he wants to implement in the first 100 days and I'm hoping for the best. I strongly believe that this country was founded on, and needs, a strong middle class. We need to bring manufacturing and light manufacturing jobs back to America and reduce the tax burden on the middle class. Trump said all the right things that resonate with working class America. Having lived in NYC most of my life and working in the same industry as Trump, I know who he is and still think he is the wrong person saying the right things, but here we are. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and I am not buying into the doom and gloom that he is the next Hitler or is the antichrist. He is a flawed man who maybe just wants to do the right things for this country. His methods are questionable at best, but you can't argue with the results.

you totally can argue. His companies have underperformed. He's declared bankruptcy 6 times. He's left a trail behind him. The only results you cant argue with is that Trump has done very well for Trump.

Briggs can joke about sexism. When its his daughter assaulted by rich white kid and that kids father says "tough sentence for a little tail" lets see his comments then. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, but he fails to see the connection and there is one. People ask what kind of a culture can we have where this exists? The answer is a Trump culture, where there is no accountability.

I am fine with GOP leadership and I think the on again off again is important. I respect conservative values, small gov and states rights. What Trump brings is a different level. I do wish him well.

I find this article particularly interesting, so I'll just attach it here https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw7&wpmm=1

Trump won because college-educated Americans are out of touch

Higher education is isolated, insular and liberal. Average voters aren't.

As the reality of President-elect Donald Trump settled in very early Wednesday morning, MSNBC’s Chris Hayes summed up an explanation common to many on the left: The Republican nominee pulled ahead thanks to old-fashioned American racism.

But the attempt to make Trump’s victory about racism appears to be at odds with what actually happened on Election Day. Consider the following facts.

Twenty-nine percent of Latinos voted for Trump, per exit polls. Remarkably, despite the near-ubiquitous narrative that Trump would have deep problems with this demographic given his comments and position on immigration, this was a higher percentage of those who voted for GOP nominee Mitt Romney in 2012. Meanwhile, African Americans did not turn out to vote against Trump. In fact, Trump received a higher percentage of African American votes than Romney did.

And while many white voters deeply disliked Trump, they disliked Democrat Hillary Clinton even more. Of those who had negative feelings about both Trump and Clinton, Trump got their votes by a margin of 2 to 1. Votes for Trump seemed to signal a rejection of the norms and values for which Clinton stood more than an outright embrace of Trump. He was viewed unfavorably, for instance, by 61 percent of Wisconsinites, but 1 in 5 in that group voted for him anyway.

The most important divide in this election was not between whites and non-whites. It was between those who are often referred to as “educated” voters and those who are described as “working class” voters.

The reality is that six in 10 Americans do not have a college degree, and they elected Donald Trump. College-educated people didn’t just fail to see this coming — they have struggled to display even a rudimentary understanding of the worldviews of those who voted for Trump. This is an indictment of the monolithic, insulated political culture in the vast majority our colleges and universities.

As a college professor, I know that there are many ways in which college graduates simply know more about the world than those who do not have such degrees. This is especially true — with some exceptions, of course — when it comes to “hard facts” learned in science, history and sociology courses.

But I also know that that those with college degrees — again, with some significant exceptions — don’t necessarily know philosophy or theology. And they have especially paltry knowledge about the foundational role that different philosophical or theological claims play in public thought compared with what is common to college campuses. In my experience, many professors and college students don’t even realize that their views on political issues rely on a particular philosophical or theological stance.

As a college professor, I know that there are many ways in which college graduates simply know more about the world than those who do not have such degrees. This is especially true — with some exceptions, of course — when it comes to “hard facts” learned in science, history and sociology courses.

But I also know that that those with college degrees — again, with some significant exceptions — don’t necessarily know philosophy or theology. And they have especially paltry knowledge about the foundational role that different philosophical or theological claims play in public thought compared with what is common to college campuses. In my experience, many professors and college students don’t even realize that their views on political issues rely on a particular philosophical or theological stance.

Sometimes the college-educated find themselves so unable to understand a particular working-class point of view that they will respond to those perspectives with shocking condescension. Recall that President Obama, in the midst of the 2012 election cycle, suggested that job losses were the reason working-class voters were bitterly clinging “to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them.” The religious themselves, meanwhile, likely do not chalk their faith up to unhappy economic prospects, and they probably find it hard to connect with politicians who seem to assume such.

Thus today’s college graduates are formed by a campus culture that leaves them unable to understand people with unfamiliar or heterodox views on guns, abortion, religion, marriage, gender and privilege. And that same culture leads such educated people to either label those with whom they disagree as bad people or reduce their stated views on these issues as actually being about something else, as in Obama’s case. Most college grads in this culture are simply never forced to engage with or seriously consider professors or texts which could provide a genuine, compelling alternative view.

For decades now, U.S. colleges and universities have quite rightly been trying to become more diverse when it comes to race and gender. But this election highlights the fact that our institutions of higher education should use similar methods to cultivate philosophical, theological and political diversity.

These institutions should consider using quotas in hiring that help faculties and administrations more accurately reflect the wide range of norms and values present in the American people. There should be systemwide attempts to have texts assigned in classes written by people from intellectually underrepresented groups. There should be concerted efforts to protect political minorities from discrimination and marginalization, even if their views are unpopular or uncomfortable to consider.

The goal of such changes would not be to convince students that their political approaches are either correct or incorrect. The goal would instead be educational: to identify and understand the norms, values, first principles, intuitions and stories which have been traditionally underrepresented in higher education. This would better equip college graduates to engage with the world as it is, including with their fellow citizens.

The alternative, a reduction of all disagreement to racism, bigotry and ignorance — in addition to being wrong about its primary source — will simply make the disagreement far more personal, entrenched and vitriolic. And it won’t make liberal values more persuasive to the less educated, as Trump victory demonstrates.

It is time to do the hard work of forging the kind of understanding that moves beyond mere dismissal to actual argument. Today’s election results indicate that our colleges and universities are places where this hard work is particularly necessary.

How about educate students about spirituality and about many ways it manifests in the life of people across America and across the world. How about educate student about simple fact that there are many cultures in the world and they are of different levels of development. To accept people as they are not as they should be per some moral standards we consider mainstream.
No one can make a bridges when the other side of the river is not visible.
Our liberal colleges are teaching social utopia without considering that this led to genocide and decadence over and over again.
What we end up with it the whole generation of self entitled young people who unable to take any responsibility for themselves and others. Trump is the best thing that happened with America. Not because of who he is and what he will do.
His appearance is opening of rotten box of warms eating this country alive starting from the head.
Now America we will need to deal with it....

crzymdups wrote:Horrified about the results, but looking at the numbers - it wasn't more people voting for Trump. It was voters who came out for Obama staying away from Clinton. Trump got fewer votes than Romney(12) and McCain(08) - but the problem is so did Clinton.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ckilpatrick/status/796773079179554816

Was going to post this from home tonight, you beat me to it. It really shows how this was more of a election that Clinton lost than one Trump won. Not trying to take anything away from him. He delivered what he promised and his campaign managed this much better on fewer resources against noy one but two establishments

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Here is what probably is going to happen. GOP and Trump are going to engage in an orgy of deregulation, tax cuts (mostly for the rich), and break unions. Wall Street, the economy, will do well for a couple of years. Trump supporters, just like Reagan supporters, Bush supporters, Clinton supporters, Obama supporters, will cheer that their man has brought America back.

Then the effects of all the deregulation, the decrease in revenue from the tax cuts, will cause great suffering to the poor and middle class. They will argue that gutting social programs, or privatizing them, is the only way to pay for the shortfall. Just like Obama wanted to but Americans from both major parties pushed back hard.

No you say? Its been the MO of almost every administration of both parties for decades now. Dont be fooled again. Deregulation isnt about making things easier for the small business man. More often than not deregulation is structured to keep small businesses from competing with the big ones. It doesn't encourage competition, it stifles it.

Ive heard Trump propose some things Im in favor of, like scrapping the TPP, better relations with Russia, making Nato pay their fair share. They should try single payer health care without the US paying for most of the NATO tab.

Still, many of the things Trump proposes are nothing but failed trickle down economics. If you still believe that after decades of evidence to the contrary that gutting taxes on the rich benefits everyone, seek help immediately.

Here is an example of the games I think Trump is going to engage in. Take the wall for instance, one of the pillars of his candidacy. He claims Mexico will pay for it. Here is how he does it: convince Mexico to publicly agree to pay for it and cut the US a check for say $10 billion. Trump then under the table works out a deal to funnel $15 billion back to Mexico. Trump fulfilled his promise and solidifies the narrative that he gets things done. All it cost the US tax payer is an extra $5 billion, but who cares? All we care about is perception, right?

Smoke and mirrors folks. Whatever it cost to make him look good.

What amazes me about conservatives and the wall is something they never seem factor into their stance. A wall can be used to keep people out, and a wall can be used to keep people in. First a southern wall, then a northern wall, then it looks a lot like the old East Germany. You trust the federal govt that much?

Welpee wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Horrified about the results, but looking at the numbers - it wasn't more people voting for Trump. It was voters who came out for Obama staying away from Clinton. Trump got fewer votes than Romney(12) and McCain(08) - but the problem is so did Clinton.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ckilpatrick/status/796773079179554816

Was going to post this from home tonight, you beat me to it. It really shows how this was more of a election that Clinton lost than one Trump won. Not trying to take anything away from him. He delivered what he promised and his campaign managed this much better on fewer resources against noy one but two establishments

That chart is a little deceiving in that you're comparing Clinton to a fairly popular Obama and Trump to a pretty unlikable Romney (yet another republican candidate even people in his own party didn't like). So the bar was significantly lower for Trump to hurdle Romney.

But I agree with your premise, Romney got 60.9 million votes compared to 59.8 million for Trump, pretty much a wash. However 65.9 million for Obama versus 60.1 million for Clinton is a staggering drop off. One thing I said on this thread, Trump couldn't win this election, but Clinton could lose it and obviously that's what happened.

Think about it this way - she ran for the same platform, it was widely touted as Obama's third term. Can we just acknowledge that she was a horrible candidate with so much personal baggage that she couldn't win even when the bar was lowered from what you called an unlikable candidate in Romney. Trump got less votes than Romney - so he was even less likeable. The problem here is obvious and it's Hillary.

meloshouldgo wrote:The problem with the democratic party is simple. Most people who can read and write have figured out that stock market highs and economic growth doesn't mean better standard of living for them. While the banks are raking in profits the working class is still mired in the recession and trying to figure out WTF happened to their party. If this party cant be honest about its coziness with big banks it will continue to lose support.
Hillary was the role model for everything wrong with this party now. Bring back the left wing or die.

Why then not to rename Democratic into Socialist?
Time to stop misleading the people.

Lowering Taxes
Lowering health care costs while increasing options

Creating numerous new jobs
Building a southern border wall

I think we can all live with that

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:The problem with the democratic party is simple. Most people who can read and write have figured out that stock market highs and economic growth doesn't mean better standard of living for them. While the banks are raking in profits the working class is still mired in the recession and trying to figure out WTF happened to their party. If this party cant be honest about its coziness with big banks it will continue to lose support.
Hillary was the role model for everything wrong with this party now. Bring back the left wing or die.

Wait a damn minute!!! The Dems are the ones trying to actually help the poor and middle class!!! Almost every policy they push the most is better for the average joe. The only reason we didn't see even more progress and an even better economy was the stall and block tactics of the Republicans! We lost Billions with the Republicans Debt Ceiling stunts. The sequester cost thousands of jobs. Not doing any kind of infrastructure projects.

There were lots more jobs and development programs that Obama tried to pass. Tell me what did the Republicans do for the people over the last 8 years!!! They even tried to block minimum wage increases. This trope about Hillary is way overstated. In any event the Progressive Wing will have a much bigger influence from now on.

I am not defending Republicans, I have no interest.

But if you want to claim Dems have helped the middle class show me some data. I have provided multiple links to federal reserve data that showed nothing Dems have done have resulted in wage growth for the middle class. NOTHING. If you want I can post them again. I have also provided data that shows Arkud's precious trickle down is exactly horse****. Ever since the deregulation of banks signed into law by Clinton all the "growth" in the economy has gone to the top, and real wages for middle income Americans have gone down not up.

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:The problem with the democratic party is simple. Most people who can read and write have figured out that stock market highs and economic growth doesn't mean better standard of living for them. While the banks are raking in profits the working class is still mired in the recession and trying to figure out WTF happened to their party. If this party cant be honest about its coziness with big banks it will continue to lose support.
Hillary was the role model for everything wrong with this party now. Bring back the left wing or die.

Why then not to rename Democratic into Socialist?
Time to stop misleading the people.

Mislead? Bernie Sanders is a socialist and I would have given up my left arm to see him elected. And I am proud of it. Get it? Let me try that in English again - I am a socialist and I'll scream it from the rooftops. You have a problem with that? I would really like to tell you exactly what you can do with it.

Just because you grew up in Russia and you are not smart enough to tell the difference between communism, socialism and corrupt government doesn't give you the right to come here and call other people out for being misleading. GTFO

I get it.
So why you are with this hack-job Democrats who are in fact the party of large capital?
US has Socialist and Communist parties.
Be a man and support them not pretenders.
You do not need to be smart to see where the wind is blowing.
Sorry to ruin your utopian dream - socialism is dead together with hundred of millions victims it slaughtered for nothing.

And where did you see me support this hack-job Democrats again? Please point out exactly what I have said in support of them???

Socialism is a philosophy not an economical model and no you don't get it, you never have. But I have no intention of discussing it with you, you are clearly to brainwashed against it to even comprehend what is being said.