knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kevin Durant is a Batman and he got eliminated in the playoffs earlier then Melo did once Westbrook got injured with a better supporting cast.

Durants supporting cast didnt show up at all.

But i tell you one thing....if melo put up the averages durant did, we would have been playing Miami in the ecf.

He'll never average 30 points 9 rebound 6 assists 1 steal and 1 block in the playoffs...that will never happen.

Supporting cast not showing up excuse doesn't work in Carmelo arguments. Didn't work when Rondo and Allen ate Douglas and Fields food. Didn't work when Lin was 80%, Tyson caught the flu, and Amare was punching fire extinguishers. Didn't work when Smith, Kidd, Tyson laid an egg and Amare was out again with injury. Didn't work when Billups got destroyed by Deron Williams while Nene and Kmart were abused by Milsap and Boozer who lapped there production.

How about 30pts 8.5rebs 3ast 2stls or 27pts 6rebs 4ast 2stls.

doesnt 30 9 and 6 trump whatever you just posted?

And you missed the point melo actually had help, much more than Durant did, but the point still stands....if melo average in this playoffs what Durant did, we'd been playing miami.

but he didnt average the points rebounds and certainly not the assists.

First and foremost Durant is a better player then Melo. This isn't a comparison on who is a better player. But it is a comparison on situations and circumstances. 2nd you have to elaborate more on the "Melo had help, much more then Durant did comment". Do you mean overall in his career or this past playoffs? 3rd you forget that Melo was playing with a screwed up shoulder throughout the playoffs. Durant also played 44mins a game in the playoffs 4min per game more then Melo. Of course I doubt he would put up 30-9-6, but as I have mentioned he has put up 30-8.5-3-2 in the past & 27-6-4-2 in the past.

Regardless, we were told that Melo failed in the playoffs because he wasn't a superstar but a co-star and wasn't a saber metric basketball player. That not having enough help was an excuse. But then there is Durant who is a superstar, who is one of the best saber metric basketball players on the planet, who averaged 30pts 9rebs 6ast. All that led to was 3-6 once Westbrook went down and getting dominated in the 2nd rd. I think its clear to see what the x factor is between the 2 different parallels.

durant is more efficient and has been improving on making his teammates better. but losing westbrook was too much, especially against a huge team like memphis.

durant was drafted but melo decimated the team he wanted to be traded to instead of waiting for free agency. if melo knew his actual value to a team instead of chasing top money and having a delusional value of himself he could have been surrounded by a much more solid and deep team.

I honestly cant blame melo for that, he didnt trade himself, and the team has bounced back from those asset losses imo, and continue to move forward every season since.

now if we're gauging it on titles and that only, they have a long way to go, but i doubt those assets would contribute to that end either.

I just find it odd that people look at durant which they know is a vastly better player and then use the same analogy.

The thunder didnt lose because Durant was inefffective.....he produced and did so very well..,..cant say the same for melo.

and i cant use injuries as an excuse, it seems injuries only matter when he struggles....no one said anything when he had his great month of april while being hurt.

He got hurt in the game against the Pacers in April. He sat out the final two games. His last regular season game was 4/14 and that was when he got hurt.

I'm positive his shoulder wasnt the only injury he suffered last year, but thats not even the the point.

His injuries didnt affect his game, except when he struggles, which he does anyway even when healthy.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kevin Durant is a Batman and he got eliminated in the playoffs earlier then Melo did once Westbrook got injured with a better supporting cast.

Durants supporting cast didnt show up at all.

But i tell you one thing....if melo put up the averages durant did, we would have been playing Miami in the ecf.

He'll never average 30 points 9 rebound 6 assists 1 steal and 1 block in the playoffs...that will never happen.

Supporting cast not showing up excuse doesn't work in Carmelo arguments. Didn't work when Rondo and Allen ate Douglas and Fields food. Didn't work when Lin was 80%, Tyson caught the flu, and Amare was punching fire extinguishers. Didn't work when Smith, Kidd, Tyson laid an egg and Amare was out again with injury. Didn't work when Billups got destroyed by Deron Williams while Nene and Kmart were abused by Milsap and Boozer who lapped there production.

How about 30pts 8.5rebs 3ast 2stls or 27pts 6rebs 4ast 2stls.

doesnt 30 9 and 6 trump whatever you just posted?

And you missed the point melo actually had help, much more than Durant did, but the point still stands....if melo average in this playoffs what Durant did, we'd been playing miami.

but he didnt average the points rebounds and certainly not the assists.

First and foremost Durant is a better player then Melo. This isn't a comparison on who is a better player. But it is a comparison on situations and circumstances. 2nd you have to elaborate more on the "Melo had help, much more then Durant did comment". Do you mean overall in his career or this past playoffs? 3rd you forget that Melo was playing with a screwed up shoulder throughout the playoffs. Durant also played 44mins a game in the playoffs 4min per game more then Melo. Of course I doubt he would put up 30-9-6, but as I have mentioned he has put up 30-8.5-3-2 in the past & 27-6-4-2 in the past.

Regardless, we were told that Melo failed in the playoffs because he wasn't a superstar but a co-star and wasn't a saber metric basketball player. That not having enough help was an excuse. But then there is Durant who is a superstar, who is one of the best saber metric basketball players on the planet, who averaged 30pts 9rebs 6ast. All that led to was 3-6 once Westbrook went down and getting dominated in the 2nd rd. I think its clear to see what the x factor is between the 2 different parallels.

durant is more efficient and has been improving on making his teammates better. but losing westbrook was too much, especially against a huge team like memphis.

durant was drafted but melo decimated the team he wanted to be traded to instead of waiting for free agency. if melo knew his actual value to a team instead of chasing top money and having a delusional value of himself he could have been surrounded by a much more solid and deep team.

I honestly cant blame melo for that, he didnt trade himself, and the team has bounced back from those asset losses imo, and continue to move forward every season since.

now if we're gauging it on titles and that only, they have a long way to go, but i doubt those assets would contribute to that end either.

I just find it odd that people look at durant which they know is a vastly better player and then use the same analogy.

The thunder didnt lose because Durant was inefffective.....he produced and did so very well..,..cant say the same for melo.

and i cant use injuries as an excuse, it seems injuries only matter when he struggles....no one said anything when he had his great month of april while being hurt.

He got hurt in the game against the Pacers in April. He sat out the final two games. His last regular season game was 4/14 and that was when he got hurt.

I'm positive his shoulder wasnt the only injury he suffered last year, but thats not even the the point.

His injuries didnt affect his game, except when he struggles, which he does anyway even when healthy.

I am not following you. Wasn't your point that he won player of the month in April because he played so well despite his shoulder? He injured or re-injured it against David West and didn't play in a game after that. He won player of the month because of his play pre-injury. Also, he was slammed by Howard in December and seemed to finally be overcoming that in April before the game against the Pacers.

newyorknewyork wrote:

I'm guessing you watched the Pacers series, please name me who was making plays to help Carmelo Anthony or the Knicks get past the Pacers? Your saying the Knicks added talent every yr, okay what talent stepped up and made plays vs the Pacers? The stats you are showing me doesn't explain how Tyson went from 10.7rebs a game to 6. Is Carmelo's usage rate and per the cause of that?

Hibbert doesn't have to leave the paint so our ability to run the PNR or get penetration to cause any type of ball movement is crippled making Felton and Tyson less effective offensively. A lot of you guys act like they just decided not to move the ball around. Almost all penetration is rendered non effective since Hibbert just patrolled the paint and we weren't getting any contact calls. Melo playing in the post isn't strong enough to post up West and has Hibbert to back him up. Melo playing on the perimeter allows George one of the best perimeter defenders in the game who is hard to shoot over with his height and length an easier assignment since he knows he has Hibbert clogging the paint he can focus on pressing Melo. When Melo did penetrate it resulted in contact non calls. The only real counter we had was to be able to nail 3s. Problem though is being able to create the open looks since we couldn't post up or penetrate or run our PNRs.

Your stats are only telling me the end result without explaining the y it happened which can only be known by watching the game. Just saying Carmelo should have got more ast or shot better isn't saying much. What the Knicks needed was a matchup to exploit to cause some type of ripple effect as Indy is built well to guard against Carmelo's strengths.

Pacers, mostly Hibert, has nothing to do with the way they played.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kevin Durant is a Batman and he got eliminated in the playoffs earlier then Melo did once Westbrook got injured with a better supporting cast.

Durants supporting cast didnt show up at all.

But i tell you one thing....if melo put up the averages durant did, we would have been playing Miami in the ecf.

He'll never average 30 points 9 rebound 6 assists 1 steal and 1 block in the playoffs...that will never happen.

Supporting cast not showing up excuse doesn't work in Carmelo arguments. Didn't work when Rondo and Allen ate Douglas and Fields food. Didn't work when Lin was 80%, Tyson caught the flu, and Amare was punching fire extinguishers. Didn't work when Smith, Kidd, Tyson laid an egg and Amare was out again with injury. Didn't work when Billups got destroyed by Deron Williams while Nene and Kmart were abused by Milsap and Boozer who lapped there production.

How about 30pts 8.5rebs 3ast 2stls or 27pts 6rebs 4ast 2stls.

doesnt 30 9 and 6 trump whatever you just posted?

And you missed the point melo actually had help, much more than Durant did, but the point still stands....if melo average in this playoffs what Durant did, we'd been playing miami.

but he didnt average the points rebounds and certainly not the assists.

I guess I have to ask, where was Melo's help? Kidd didn't score in the playoffs. Flu was dominated when he played d and his offense was nonexistent. JR couldn't do anything positive. KMart was ok but isn't much of an offensive threat and needed a body as big as his heart on d. Shump, Prigs, and Felton had some moments where they were ok but it was inconsistent. Cope was much more of a presence in Indy but didn't get much time(maybe because he didn't score a point in the celts series?). Also, tear Durant's labrum and have him play against D West and see how effective he is. I believe aside from Westbrook the Thunder were healthy. I don't think Martin or Ibaka had good series but they weren't hurt, coming back from injury or facing surgery after the series.

Has Melo EVER put up 30 points 9 boards and 6 assists in a playoff run or even a series?

But yes, i can say he had help, but when you're usage is hovering around 40 it would hard to see.

i actually dont think melo's off shooting arm injury affected his shot at all, he posted his usual %'s as a Knick.

Need more details. Just saying Melo had help isn't good enough.

Disagree, when you have guys on the court shooting more efficient than he is...he has help, just gotta use them.

I still can't tell if you are talking about last season or for his career? If that explanation is what you quantify as help to make a deep playoff run then I disagree. Help IMO means making plays without depending on Melo.

That will not be allowed.....the team is adding talent every single season and his playoff usage goes up and up.

Melo's usage has went from 32 to 36 to 38....ridiculous.

Yet his PER has decline in each of those three seasons from 22.5 to 21.5 to 20.4....so the point is simple....more Melo equals worse melo.

And thats not including his def% assist% and other facets of his game dropping as well.

He even used to be a solid rebounder and even that has taken a massive hit % w-wise.

Dont believe me...lets the facts show....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

Look no further than the "playoffs advanced" section and notice all of the dropoffs.

And as far as his "help" his help isnt much different than the other playoff teams except the are not trusted or used as they should be....just look around at each teams PER for instance, and start right there.

I'm guessing you watched the Pacers series, please name me who was making plays to help Carmelo Anthony or the Knicks get past the Pacers? Your saying the Knicks added talent every yr, okay what talent stepped up and made plays vs the Pacers? The stats you are showing me doesn't explain how Tyson went from 10.7rebs a game to 6. Is Carmelo's usage rate and per the cause of that?

Hibbert doesn't have to leave the paint so our ability to run the PNR or get penetration to cause any type of ball movement is crippled making Felton and Tyson less effective offensively. A lot of you guys act like they just decided not to move the ball around. Almost all penetration is rendered non effective since Hibbert just patrolled the paint and we weren't getting any contact calls. Melo playing in the post isn't strong enough to post up West and has Hibbert to back him up. Melo playing on the perimeter allows George one of the best perimeter defenders in the game who is hard to shoot over with his height and length an easier assignment since he knows he has Hibbert clogging the paint he can focus on pressing Melo. When Melo did penetrate it resulted in contact non calls. The only real counter we had was to be able to nail 3s. Problem though is being able to create the open looks since we couldn't post up or penetrate or run our PNRs.

Your stats are only telling me the end result without explaining the y it happened which can only be known by watching the game. Just saying Carmelo should have got more ast or shot better isn't saying much. What the Knicks needed was a matchup to exploit to cause some type of ripple effect as Indy is built well to guard against Carmelo's strengths.

When you have a usage of near 40, you should be the playmaker, but melo was not, and was ineffecient in what he does best.

And as for the matchup to exploit are you stating the best player on the court cant be? Carmelo was supposed to be the matchup problem.

The main issue is, if the best player is playing their best, then you can look at the role players.

See Durant, he played well above his norm, you cant fault him at all....Melo played worse and was utilized even more as he played worse.

Just saying that Melo should be the play maker isn't strategically countering what Indy was doing to prevent Melo from doing exactly that. Teams with only one playmaker don't challenge for conference or finals appearances which is why Durant failed when it was all put on his shoulders. Melo's best ability to be a playmaker or get others involved or create ball movement is out of the post with his back to the basket. Matchup wise Melo in the post is not effective vs Indy's frontcourt. Melo's usage is so high as Felton's (a relied on playmaker) ability to penetrate and be a playmaker was all but eliminate due to Hibbert never having to come out of the paint to free up Tyson or create any type of ball or player movement as they would just give Felton the long 2 all day. And Smith our other relied on playmaker was mentally out of it. Melo decided trying to attack Hibbert and getting him in foul trouble would open up the paint and the offense but the refs allowed contact thus making them missed shot attempts and instead. Now if Indy had someone else to fear on that level like Durant has had with Westbrook so they can't defend Melo one way because then this other player will kill you and vice versa, then we would be cooking.

This most likely is the reason Bargs was traded for to create a Pick and Pop/Fade option opening up the paint.

Cosign

A synergy account would break down some aspects of the game that could show how all the pieces might fit.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kevin Durant is a Batman and he got eliminated in the playoffs earlier then Melo did once Westbrook got injured with a better supporting cast.

Durants supporting cast didnt show up at all.

But i tell you one thing....if melo put up the averages durant did, we would have been playing Miami in the ecf.

He'll never average 30 points 9 rebound 6 assists 1 steal and 1 block in the playoffs...that will never happen.

Supporting cast not showing up excuse doesn't work in Carmelo arguments. Didn't work when Rondo and Allen ate Douglas and Fields food. Didn't work when Lin was 80%, Tyson caught the flu, and Amare was punching fire extinguishers. Didn't work when Smith, Kidd, Tyson laid an egg and Amare was out again with injury. Didn't work when Billups got destroyed by Deron Williams while Nene and Kmart were abused by Milsap and Boozer who lapped there production.

How about 30pts 8.5rebs 3ast 2stls or 27pts 6rebs 4ast 2stls.

doesnt 30 9 and 6 trump whatever you just posted?

And you missed the point melo actually had help, much more than Durant did, but the point still stands....if melo average in this playoffs what Durant did, we'd been playing miami.

but he didnt average the points rebounds and certainly not the assists.

I guess I have to ask, where was Melo's help? Kidd didn't score in the playoffs. Flu was dominated when he played d and his offense was nonexistent. JR couldn't do anything positive. KMart was ok but isn't much of an offensive threat and needed a body as big as his heart on d. Shump, Prigs, and Felton had some moments where they were ok but it was inconsistent. Cope was much more of a presence in Indy but didn't get much time(maybe because he didn't score a point in the celts series?). Also, tear Durant's labrum and have him play against D West and see how effective he is. I believe aside from Westbrook the Thunder were healthy. I don't think Martin or Ibaka had good series but they weren't hurt, coming back from injury or facing surgery after the series.

Has Melo EVER put up 30 points 9 boards and 6 assists in a playoff run or even a series?

But yes, i can say he had help, but when you're usage is hovering around 40 it would hard to see.

i actually dont think melo's off shooting arm injury affected his shot at all, he posted his usual %'s as a Knick.

Need more details. Just saying Melo had help isn't good enough.

Disagree, when you have guys on the court shooting more efficient than he is...he has help, just gotta use them.

I still can't tell if you are talking about last season or for his career? If that explanation is what you quantify as help to make a deep playoff run then I disagree. Help IMO means making plays without depending on Melo.

That will not be allowed.....the team is adding talent every single season and his playoff usage goes up and up.

Melo's usage has went from 32 to 36 to 38....ridiculous.

Yet his PER has decline in each of those three seasons from 22.5 to 21.5 to 20.4....so the point is simple....more Melo equals worse melo.

And thats not including his def% assist% and other facets of his game dropping as well.

He even used to be a solid rebounder and even that has taken a massive hit % w-wise.

Dont believe me...lets the facts show....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

Look no further than the "playoffs advanced" section and notice all of the dropoffs.

And as far as his "help" his help isnt much different than the other playoff teams except the are not trusted or used as they should be....just look around at each teams PER for instance, and start right there.

I'm guessing you watched the Pacers series, please name me who was making plays to help Carmelo Anthony or the Knicks get past the Pacers? Your saying the Knicks added talent every yr, okay what talent stepped up and made plays vs the Pacers? The stats you are showing me doesn't explain how Tyson went from 10.7rebs a game to 6. Is Carmelo's usage rate and per the cause of that?

Hibbert doesn't have to leave the paint so our ability to run the PNR or get penetration to cause any type of ball movement is crippled making Felton and Tyson less effective offensively. A lot of you guys act like they just decided not to move the ball around. Almost all penetration is rendered non effective since Hibbert just patrolled the paint and we weren't getting any contact calls. Melo playing in the post isn't strong enough to post up West and has Hibbert to back him up. Melo playing on the perimeter allows George one of the best perimeter defenders in the game who is hard to shoot over with his height and length an easier assignment since he knows he has Hibbert clogging the paint he can focus on pressing Melo. When Melo did penetrate it resulted in contact non calls. The only real counter we had was to be able to nail 3s. Problem though is being able to create the open looks since we couldn't post up or penetrate or run our PNRs.

Your stats are only telling me the end result without explaining the y it happened which can only be known by watching the game. Just saying Carmelo should have got more ast or shot better isn't saying much. What the Knicks needed was a matchup to exploit to cause some type of ripple effect as Indy is built well to guard against Carmelo's strengths.

When you have a usage of near 40, you should be the playmaker, but melo was not, and was ineffecient in what he does best.

And as for the matchup to exploit are you stating the best player on the court cant be? Carmelo was supposed to be the matchup problem.

The main issue is, if the best player is playing their best, then you can look at the role players.

See Durant, he played well above his norm, you cant fault him at all....Melo played worse and was utilized even more as he played worse.

Just saying that Melo should be the play maker isn't strategically countering what Indy was doing to prevent Melo from doing exactly that. Teams with only one playmaker don't challenge for conference or finals appearances which is why Durant failed when it was all put on his shoulders. Melo's best ability to be a playmaker or get others involved or create ball movement is out of the post with his back to the basket. Matchup wise Melo in the post is not effective vs Indy's frontcourt. Melo's usage is so high as Felton's (a relied on playmaker) ability to penetrate and be a playmaker was all but eliminate due to Hibbert never having to come out of the paint to free up Tyson or create any type of ball or player movement as they would just give Felton the long 2 all day. And Smith our other relied on playmaker was mentally out of it. Melo decided trying to attack Hibbert and getting him in foul trouble would open up the paint and the offense but the refs allowed contact thus making them missed shot attempts and instead. Now if Indy had someone else to fear on that level like Durant has had with Westbrook so they can't defend Melo one way because then this other player will kill you and vice versa, then we would be cooking.

This most likely is the reason Bargs was traded for to create a Pick and Pop/Fade option opening up the paint.

again, knickcity posted stats of 3 knick players who were actually hitting shots at a good rate... all of this having another player to fear is so overplayed in this case... you win as a team as well... this is not take your turn basketball.. teams fear westbrook,and ibaka because durant allows those guys to play their games... He doesn't take shots from them... so they can be who they are.. carmelo suffocates an offense... so how can anyone else actually be a weapon?

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:so can people show the numbers of Melo teammates shooting a better % when he is off the floor or the team's efficiency when off the floor? Could they also give me hockey assist numbers, box out %, kobe assist and all the other inside stBoBBoston series was to much Iso.ston series was to much Iso. ton series was to much Iso. s teams keep.

Can they give a run down of other team's inside stats too.

Game 6. vs the pacers, the team was playing extremely well before he checked back in.

If I recall correctly Boston make that ridiculous run with Melo on the floor nearly blowing a 26 point lead with his superstar worthy 7-23 from the field.

He actually had 5 assists in that game, nothing hockey about it, when he passes the guys can make a shot if he trusts them.

But shooting 7-23...1-6 from three, when other starter are 5-9 and 4-6 from three like Pablo was....and Shumpert 6-9 and hit all of his threes, dont tell me he didnt have help....even tyson was 50% from the field in that game.

Trust your teammates, thats why quite a few of them complained about the offense....it's a joke when no one else is involved.

so that's a no?

Also, you pointed out 3 low usage players that have a problem increasing their usage. TS% doesn't count the open shots players pass up either so while low usage players stats look nice and pretty they could be hurting the team.

Does Melo need to improve? Heck yeah.

regarding the injury: the shoulder seem to alter his mechanics and prevent him from using his off hand when dribbling like he was accustomed to. He should have shot less in the Boston series though.

they are low usage because the player with the high usage wont make plays for them.

The proof is there, those guys had productions when used.....they shot better from three than melo did for instance.

Lets just use threes since the team is a three point shooting club.

In the playoffs, out of all player who took over 10 threes....

melo and JR both shot below 30% from three...yet took the most.

Shump 42%...had more makes than Melo and took 15 less threes.....totally shameful.

Pablo does not shoot at all and hit 13 threes at 43%....4 less than melo and took a whopping 27 less threes....further patheticness.

Recall all those airballs that Cope had in Boston? He certainly made it going for 47% from three overall.

I used these three guys for one reason only.....they have the least playoff experience...yet were productive overall.

dont tell me melo didnt have help....make a play and he'll see he does.

they're low usage players because they can't create for themselves. They can't make the D pay for pushing them off the three point line or get caught playing hot potato behind the arch. That makes the defense job easier. Cope is a high usage guy that should have played more. Also, Melo should have shot less those 4 games. In the Boston series there was way to much Iso but the Indy series he just missed open shots and ran into super Hibbert. The number of Iso attempts for the 1st 4 games were lower than reg. season numbers by a significant amount.

The team needs another high usage starter to keep Melo's usage lower all season long.

The players taking the most shots werent hitting them nearly as well as the guys who cant create their own....supposedly.

but we sjould know thats bull....pablo is a point, he obviously can create his own.

Copeland certainly can as can shump...i mentioned these guys sepcifically to dispel the notion.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kevin Durant is a Batman and he got eliminated in the playoffs earlier then Melo did once Westbrook got injured with a better supporting cast.

Durants supporting cast didnt show up at all.

But i tell you one thing....if melo put up the averages durant did, we would have been playing Miami in the ecf.

He'll never average 30 points 9 rebound 6 assists 1 steal and 1 block in the playoffs...that will never happen.

Supporting cast not showing up excuse doesn't work in Carmelo arguments. Didn't work when Rondo and Allen ate Douglas and Fields food. Didn't work when Lin was 80%, Tyson caught the flu, and Amare was punching fire extinguishers. Didn't work when Smith, Kidd, Tyson laid an egg and Amare was out again with injury. Didn't work when Billups got destroyed by Deron Williams while Nene and Kmart were abused by Milsap and Boozer who lapped there production.

How about 30pts 8.5rebs 3ast 2stls or 27pts 6rebs 4ast 2stls.

doesnt 30 9 and 6 trump whatever you just posted?

And you missed the point melo actually had help, much more than Durant did, but the point still stands....if melo average in this playoffs what Durant did, we'd been playing miami.

but he didnt average the points rebounds and certainly not the assists.

First and foremost Durant is a better player then Melo. This isn't a comparison on who is a better player. But it is a comparison on situations and circumstances. 2nd you have to elaborate more on the "Melo had help, much more then Durant did comment". Do you mean overall in his career or this past playoffs? 3rd you forget that Melo was playing with a screwed up shoulder throughout the playoffs. Durant also played 44mins a game in the playoffs 4min per game more then Melo. Of course I doubt he would put up 30-9-6, but as I have mentioned he has put up 30-8.5-3-2 in the past & 27-6-4-2 in the past.

Regardless, we were told that Melo failed in the playoffs because he wasn't a superstar but a co-star and wasn't a saber metric basketball player. That not having enough help was an excuse. But then there is Durant who is a superstar, who is one of the best saber metric basketball players on the planet, who averaged 30pts 9rebs 6ast. All that led to was 3-6 once Westbrook went down and getting dominated in the 2nd rd. I think its clear to see what the x factor is between the 2 different parallels.

durant is more efficient and has been improving on making his teammates better. but losing westbrook was too much, especially against a huge team like memphis.

durant was drafted but melo decimated the team he wanted to be traded to instead of waiting for free agency. if melo knew his actual value to a team instead of chasing top money and having a delusional value of himself he could have been surrounded by a much more solid and deep team.

I honestly cant blame melo for that, he didnt trade himself, and the team has bounced back from those asset losses imo, and continue to move forward every season since.

now if we're gauging it on titles and that only, they have a long way to go, but i doubt those assets would contribute to that end either.

I just find it odd that people look at durant which they know is a vastly better player and then use the same analogy.

The thunder didnt lose because Durant was inefffective.....he produced and did so very well..,..cant say the same for melo.

and i cant use injuries as an excuse, it seems injuries only matter when he struggles....no one said anything when he had his great month of april while being hurt.

He got hurt in the game against the Pacers in April. He sat out the final two games. His last regular season game was 4/14 and that was when he got hurt.

I'm positive his shoulder wasnt the only injury he suffered last year, but thats not even the the point.

His injuries didnt affect his game, except when he struggles, which he does anyway even when healthy.

I am not following you. Wasn't your point that he won player of the month in April because he played so well despite his shoulder? He injured or re-injured it against David West and didn't play in a game after that. He won player of the month because of his play pre-injury. Also, he was slammed by Howard in December and seemed to finally be overcoming that in April before the game against the Pacers.

read my first post in this blurb....we were specifically talking about the playoffs....melo and durant to be exact.

I was referring to this,

and i cant use injuries as an excuse, it seems injuries only matter when he struggles....no one said anything when he had his great month of april while being hurt.

My understanding of that was that you were referring to his play in April pre-injury.

he wasnt even healthy then he had just got his knee drained, but once again read the entire context...we are talking about the playoffs.

Thought your point was that he played out of his mind in April for the playoff push despite the wear and tear of the season but couldn't perform in the playoffs because it was the playoffs. That was why I noted that he injured his shoulder in the last regular season game he played in. Torn labrums are different from swollen knees and he said his knee was great after the fluid was drained. His shoulder was a problem through the playoffs and as he said the other day guys pulling on it and hitting it aggravated it.

not surprised you have it backwards. if you can't move your legs you are doomed in this game. back and neck injuries the same.

but a slight, non-surgical labrum tear? there's plenty you can do other than shoot the ball in the game of basketball. defend for instance. box out. pass the ball. you know-- what complete players do?

i get it... you like poorly-conditioned chuckers.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kevin Durant is a Batman and he got eliminated in the playoffs earlier then Melo did once Westbrook got injured with a better supporting cast.

Durants supporting cast didnt show up at all.

But i tell you one thing....if melo put up the averages durant did, we would have been playing Miami in the ecf.

He'll never average 30 points 9 rebound 6 assists 1 steal and 1 block in the playoffs...that will never happen.

Supporting cast not showing up excuse doesn't work in Carmelo arguments. Didn't work when Rondo and Allen ate Douglas and Fields food. Didn't work when Lin was 80%, Tyson caught the flu, and Amare was punching fire extinguishers. Didn't work when Smith, Kidd, Tyson laid an egg and Amare was out again with injury. Didn't work when Billups got destroyed by Deron Williams while Nene and Kmart were abused by Milsap and Boozer who lapped there production.

How about 30pts 8.5rebs 3ast 2stls or 27pts 6rebs 4ast 2stls.

doesnt 30 9 and 6 trump whatever you just posted?

And you missed the point melo actually had help, much more than Durant did, but the point still stands....if melo average in this playoffs what Durant did, we'd been playing miami.

but he didnt average the points rebounds and certainly not the assists.

First and foremost Durant is a better player then Melo. This isn't a comparison on who is a better player. But it is a comparison on situations and circumstances. 2nd you have to elaborate more on the "Melo had help, much more then Durant did comment". Do you mean overall in his career or this past playoffs? 3rd you forget that Melo was playing with a screwed up shoulder throughout the playoffs. Durant also played 44mins a game in the playoffs 4min per game more then Melo. Of course I doubt he would put up 30-9-6, but as I have mentioned he has put up 30-8.5-3-2 in the past & 27-6-4-2 in the past.

Regardless, we were told that Melo failed in the playoffs because he wasn't a superstar but a co-star and wasn't a saber metric basketball player. That not having enough help was an excuse. But then there is Durant who is a superstar, who is one of the best saber metric basketball players on the planet, who averaged 30pts 9rebs 6ast. All that led to was 3-6 once Westbrook went down and getting dominated in the 2nd rd. I think its clear to see what the x factor is between the 2 different parallels.

durant is more efficient and has been improving on making his teammates better. but losing westbrook was too much, especially against a huge team like memphis.

durant was drafted but melo decimated the team he wanted to be traded to instead of waiting for free agency. if melo knew his actual value to a team instead of chasing top money and having a delusional value of himself he could have been surrounded by a much more solid and deep team.

I honestly cant blame melo for that, he didnt trade himself, and the team has bounced back from those asset losses imo, and continue to move forward every season since.

now if we're gauging it on titles and that only, they have a long way to go, but i doubt those assets would contribute to that end either.

I just find it odd that people look at durant which they know is a vastly better player and then use the same analogy.

The thunder didnt lose because Durant was inefffective.....he produced and did so very well..,..cant say the same for melo.

and i cant use injuries as an excuse, it seems injuries only matter when he struggles....no one said anything when he had his great month of april while being hurt.

He got hurt in the game against the Pacers in April. He sat out the final two games. His last regular season game was 4/14 and that was when he got hurt.

I'm positive his shoulder wasnt the only injury he suffered last year, but thats not even the the point.

His injuries didnt affect his game, except when he struggles, which he does anyway even when healthy.

I am not following you. Wasn't your point that he won player of the month in April because he played so well despite his shoulder? He injured or re-injured it against David West and didn't play in a game after that. He won player of the month because of his play pre-injury. Also, he was slammed by Howard in December and seemed to finally be overcoming that in April before the game against the Pacers.

read my first post in this blurb....we were specifically talking about the playoffs....melo and durant to be exact.

I was referring to this,

and i cant use injuries as an excuse, it seems injuries only matter when he struggles....no one said anything when he had his great month of april while being hurt.

My understanding of that was that you were referring to his play in April pre-injury.

he wasnt even healthy then he had just got his knee drained, but once again read the entire context...we are talking about the playoffs.

Thought your point was that he played out of his mind in April for the playoff push despite the wear and tear of the season but couldn't perform in the playoffs because it was the playoffs. That was why I noted that he injured his shoulder in the last regular season game he played in. Torn labrums are different from swollen knees and he said his knee was great after the fluid was drained. His shoulder was a problem through the playoffs and as he said the other day guys pulling on it and hitting it aggravated it.

not surprised you have it backwards. if you can't move your legs you are doomed in this game. back and neck injuries the same.

but a slight, non-surgical labrum tear? there's plenty you can do other than shoot the ball in the game of basketball. defend for instance. box out. pass the ball. you know-- what complete players do?

i get it... you like poorly-conditioned chuckers.