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the official 07/08 nba playoff thread
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TrueBlue
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5/29/2008  11:42 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

My Finals matchup is 1/2 right now. All Boston needs to do is win more. It's too bad I hate both teams very much.

Stern's sperm is starting to spill he'll finish once Boston beats Detroit.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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K22
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5/29/2008  11:46 PM
So long San Antonio. Still can't win it back-to-back.

They really need some younger guys in there. The Lakers made them look REALLY old.

RoboTim was an assist shy of a triple double but wasn't enough.

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-05-29 11:55 PM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Nalod
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5/30/2008  12:09 AM


Reezy got his ride to the finals!
eViL
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5/30/2008  12:12 AM
Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.
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GKFv2
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5/30/2008  12:15 AM
In the series, the Lakers defense was superior.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
JrZyHuStLa
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5/30/2008  12:16 AM
Posted by K22:

So long San Antonio. Still can't win it back-to-back.

They really need some younger guys in there. The Lakers made them look REALLY old.

RoboTim was an assist shy of a triple double but wasn't enough.

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-05-29 11:55 PM]

He got the triple double.
JrZyHuStLa
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5/30/2008  12:23 AM
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.
K22
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5/30/2008  12:43 AM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

Phil Jackson is a pretty damn good coach.

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
islesfan
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5/30/2008  12:59 AM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
codeunknown
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5/30/2008  1:17 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
TrueBlue
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5/30/2008  1:22 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.


LOL Marcus Banks stayed suited and booted in his warmup, Kurt was used so little they never realized his true value and traded him with a number 1 draft pick mind you, and Raja Bell went from being a premier defender to leading the league in shooting 3's

LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
islesfan
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5/30/2008  1:29 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.

1 starter, a backup and a player who barely played. That suggests that they stepped up their overall team defense? Sure didn't look like it.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/30/2008  1:33 AM
If Kurt Thomas was such a big part of their overall team defensive philosophy, why did they package him, along with 2 future #1 picks for a future conditional 2nd rd pick?

That suggests that you drastically inflate his value in the Suns eyes in relation to what he meant to their defense.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
codeunknown
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5/30/2008  1:33 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.


LOL Marcus Banks stayed suited and booted in his warmup, Kurt was used so little they never realized his true value and traded him with a number 1 draft pick mind you, and Raja Bell went from being a premier defender to leading the league in shooting 3's

Head out of sand please.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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5/30/2008  1:36 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.

1 starter, a backup and a player who barely played. That suggests that they stepped up their overall team defense? Sure didn't look like it.

Really? It looked like it to me. Why else would you start Raja over Leandro unless you wree concerned about defense. Unfortunately, there are things in this world that aren't black or white.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
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5/30/2008  1:42 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.

1 starter, a backup and a player who barely played. That suggests that they stepped up their overall team defense? Sure didn't look like it.

Really? It looked like it to me. Why else would you start Raja over Leandro unless you wree concerned about defense. Unfortunately, there are things in this world that aren't black or white.

Probably because D'Antonio wanted more offense off the bench.

Oddly enough, the Suns gave up the same amount of points per game after Raja Bell arrived, although that went up this year. I still don't get how adding a single decent defensive player means that the entire team defensive philosophy changed, like the Mavs and Lakers obviously did in the years that they beat the Spurs.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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5/30/2008  1:47 AM
The Phoenix Suns FGA% and 3pt% Allowed were lower in the year before Bell arrived than in any year Bell has been there.

Is that black and white enough for you?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
codeunknown
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5/30/2008  1:52 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by eViL:

Interesting. The better defensive team lost the WCF.

I guess the Lakers, and not the Suns had the formula to defeat the better defensive team. First and foremost, LA has the scorer that the defense fears. That scorer has the ability to close the game when necessary, Phoenix never had that. Second, it appeared LA was pretty dominant on the rebounding end and also did a decent job of getting to the line all playoff long.

You're not giving the Lakers nearly enough credit for their defense. Their worst defense was still 100 times better than anything the Suns have played. The Mavericks figured it out too. The Suns just kept doing what they were doing and never bothered to figure it out.


The additions of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Banks would suggest otherwise.

1 starter, a backup and a player who barely played. That suggests that they stepped up their overall team defense? Sure didn't look like it.

Really? It looked like it to me. Why else would you start Raja over Leandro unless you wree concerned about defense. Unfortunately, there are things in this world that aren't black or white.

Probably because D'Antonio wanted more offense off the bench.

Oddly enough, the Suns gave up the same amount of points per game after Raja Bell arrived, although that went up this year. I still don't get how adding a single decent defensive player means that the entire team defensive philosophy changed, like the Mavs and Lakers obviously did in the years that they beat the Spurs.

It strikes me that instead of getting Raja, they could have gotten a more offensive minded player. And thus had more offense in the starting lineup and on the bench. Would that be too much to ask for?

You can be stubbron about this, Isles, but it won't make you any less wrong. Seems to me that you're arguing not just that D'Antoni isn't the best defensive coach but rather that he had zero concern for defense whatsover. Do you realize how absurd that is?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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5/30/2008  1:56 AM
Posted by islesfan:

The Phoenix Suns FGA% and 3pt% Allowed were lower in the year before Bell arrived than in any year Bell has been there.

Is that black and white enough for you?

Honestly, I think its stupid that you're arguing that Bell was brought in purely because he can shoot 3s. A priori he was brought in primarily as a defensive boost. I don't think thats really arguable although I'll let you try and convince me. There were a number of 3pt shooters with better percentages available at that time whom they chose not to acquire. Regardless, the cumulative numbers afterwards are a reflection of a variety of factors, including the development of Barbosa and the fine-tuning of the Suns offense.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
islesfan
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5/30/2008  2:14 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by islesfan:

The Phoenix Suns FGA% and 3pt% Allowed were lower in the year before Bell arrived than in any year Bell has been there.

Is that black and white enough for you?

Honestly, I think its stupid that you're arguing that Bell was brought in purely because he can shoot 3s. A priori he was brought in primarily as a defensive boost. I don't think thats really arguable although I'll let you try and convince me. There were a number of 3pt shooters with better percentages available at that time whom they chose not to acquire. Regardless, the cumulative numbers afterwards are a reflection of a variety of factors, including the development of Barbosa and the fine-tuning of the Suns offense.

I'm not arguing that D'Antonio had ZERO concern for defense, I'm arguing that he didn't have nearly enough, not even close actually. Your, "well they added these 3 players" argument proves my case far more than it does yours. Adding a single average defender to your starting lineup, without concentrating on your overall team defense, is nothing but window dressing. And the statistics bear that out.

I never said that Bell was brought in purely because he can shoot 3's. In fact, I never brought up his 3pt shooting.

You've yet to offer any proof that the Suns attention to team defense increased in any way with the acquisition of Bell or any combination of those 3 players. I on the other hand have offered nothing but stats and results.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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