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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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Knight
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9/12/2005  8:49 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Knight:

As far as Iraq goes, for one, they were violating UN sanctions--now look at the oil-for-food scandal and the countries who were illegally profiting off of Sadam's corrupt regime--you wonder why they didn't support us?


It's because we claimed falsely that we were invading them to capture weapons of mass destruction. We weren't invading them for violating UN sanctions regarding oil-for-food.


No, I mean sanctions against the weapons we thought they had at the time--they never offered proof of the destruction of their weapons of mass destruction--everybody thought they still had them and they were actually used in the past. Not every country supported us but now we see that they had illegal financial interests in Iraq--so I am saying this played a part in their decision not to support us.

[Edited by - Knight on 09-12-2005 8:50 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
AUTOADVERT
Marv
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9/12/2005  8:56 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Knight:

As far as Iraq goes, for one, they were violating UN sanctions--now look at the oil-for-food scandal and the countries who were illegally profiting off of Sadam's corrupt regime--you wonder why they didn't support us?


It's because we claimed falsely that we were invading them to capture weapons of mass destruction. We weren't invading them for violating UN sanctions regarding oil-for-food.


No, I mean sanctions against the weapons we thought they had at the time--they never offered proof of the destruction of their weapons of mass destruction--everybody thought they still had them and they were actually used in the past. Not every country supported us but now we see that they had illegal financial interests in Iraq--so I am saying this played a part in their decision not to support us.

[Edited by - Knight on 09-12-2005 8:50 PM]


But hadn't the very people who the world had entrusted with the investigation advised continued monitoring and vehemently warned against invasion (Blix et al.)? And wasn't the global sentiment against attack far more pervasive than any countries that had involvement with oil-for-food violations? And wasn't the population of this country hugely against the invasion, the same populace that was supportive of the Afghanistan invasion? Why do you think this was?
Rich
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9/12/2005  11:09 PM
The new head of FEMA:

"U.S. Fire Administrator David Paulison said in the first 48 to 72 hours of an emergency, many Americans will likely to have to look after themselves." CNN, Feb. 10, 2003.
Rich
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9/12/2005  11:34 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html

[...]

Is Bush the commanding, decisive, jovial president you've been hearing about for years in so much of the mainstream press?

Maybe not so much.

Judging from the blistering analyses in Time, Newsweek, and elsewhere these past few days, it turns out that Bush is in fact fidgety, cold and snappish in private. He yells at those who dare give him bad news and is therefore not surprisingly surrounded by an echo chamber of terrified sycophants. He is slow to comprehend concepts that don't emerge from his gut. He is uncomprehending of the speeches that he is given to read. And oh yes, one of his most significant legacies -- the immense post-Sept. 11 reorganization of the federal government which created the Homeland Security Department -- has failed a big test.

Maybe it's Bush's sinking poll numbers -- he is, after all, undeniably an unpopular president now. Maybe it's the way that the federal response to the flood has cut so deeply against Bush's most compelling claim to greatness: His resoluteness when it comes to protecting Americans.

But for whatever reason, critical observations and insights that for so long have been zealously guarded by mainstream journalists, and only doled out in teaspoons if at all, now seem to be flooding into the public sphere.

An emperor-has-no-clothes moment seems upon us.
Knight
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9/12/2005  11:58 PM
How does this guy know how Bush processes and comprehends different concepts? What does he mean when he claims Bush is "uncomprehending" of his speeches--he doesn't know what he is saying? How can you guys stand behind this stuff?

[Edited by - Knight on 09-12-2005 11:59 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Rich
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9/13/2005  1:03 AM
As with any president or high ranking public official (or actually some prominent private individuals as well), people around him "leak" what they observe a person's demeanor and thought process to be like from the questions they ask, to the ease with which they comprehend material presented, to their facial expressions, and sometimes as a result of what that person confides to them.

It's a commonly accepted practice that is only questioned by people like you when the object of their desire and adulation is presented in an unfavorable light.

The truth is that Bush has disappointed, if not horrified, some of those with close access to him, and they are singing like birds.
fishmike
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9/13/2005  12:52 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/13/katrina.impact/index.html

and so it begins.... damage control

Does this pretty much end this debate or what?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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9/13/2005  1:05 PM
Him saying it is only the beginning. I am stil waiting for the impeachment hearings to commence.

Fish, the debate is over when all is said and done. Alot more will unfold before we get to that point IMO.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
nykshaknbake
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9/13/2005  1:24 PM
Alright guys,

Can we be done with this thread? While some good points were made and I think as the chief of state Bush is somewhat responsible for the poor rescue effort; this is really a rant thread by a bunch of leftists in NY(no suprise I guess) I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.(the last CNN one excepting) If one of these guys is criticized we have to have proof to the nth degree to not accept this information. If another analyst(i.e. O'Rielly) says something, anything can be used to completly discredit him(i.e the phone sex accusation) Even the last few posts are being substantiated on specualtion of the existence of possible hearsay. Even the title of the thread is kinda silly. If you remember, on Monday everyone was talking about how NO dodged the bullet and it wasn't that bad. The levies broke. That isn't Bush's fault in fact the levies have been designed to handle category 3 hurricanes only for decades. Then all the other ridculous ideas about having boats to pump water, Bush causing global warming, etc...It's kinda like Lincoln said if you really look fo the evil in folks of course you're gonna find it. Seriously, we should just have a Micheal Moore division of this website.
Rich
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9/13/2005  1:53 PM
If he had any integrity, he would resign.
TheloniusMonk
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9/13/2005  2:17 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Alright guys,

Can we be done with this thread? While some good points were made and I think as the chief of state Bush is somewhat responsible for the poor rescue effort; this is really a rant thread by a bunch of leftists in NY(no suprise I guess) I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.(the last CNN one excepting) If one of these guys is criticized we have to have proof to the nth degree to not accept this information. If another analyst(i.e. O'Rielly) says something, anything can be used to completly discredit him(i.e the phone sex accusation) Even the last few posts are being substantiated on specualtion of the existence of possible hearsay. Even the title of the thread is kinda silly. If you remember, on Monday everyone was talking about how NO dodged the bullet and it wasn't that bad. The levies broke. That isn't Bush's fault in fact the levies have been designed to handle category 3 hurricanes only for decades. Then all the other ridculous ideas about having boats to pump water, Bush causing global warming, etc...It's kinda like Lincoln said if you really look fo the evil in folks of course you're gonna find it. Seriously, we should just have a Micheal Moore division of this website.

Levees breaking weren't his fault. No one's saying that it is. Bush was warned that the levies were threatening to break well before they gave............(meanwhile in his head, crickets)


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
oohah
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9/13/2005  2:36 PM
Can we be done with this thread?

Why should anything be done with it?
While some good points were made and I think as the chief of state Bush is somewhat responsible for the poor rescue effort; this is really a rant thread by a bunch of leftists in NY(no suprise I guess) I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.

Jeez. anybody who doesn't like Bush and what he has wrought upon our nation is a leftist? I ain't no leftist, and I don't think the big anti-Bush contributors in the last few pages are leftists either, they simply have eyes and ears, and they don't like what they have seen and heard from this man.

However, to acually try to defend Bush almost requires an extreme right-wing point of view. I brand those people "Righties". However, I do think it is a wonderful exercise in mental gymnastics to atempt to defend this fool our president.
I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.(the last CNN one excepting)

A) It just isn't true that the CNN article is the only one posted from a credible news source.
B) If you depend only on the "corporate news" you will simply be fed a steady diet of nonsense and lies.
If one of these guys is criticized we have to have proof to the nth degree to not accept this information. If another analyst(i.e. O'Rielly) says something, anything can be used to completly discredit him(i.e the phone sex accusation)

You really need to read back in this thread if you are going to comment on it. My point was not that O'Reilly's FACTS cannot be believed on anything, but that one should take his OPINIONS with a grain of salt because he is a liar and hypocrite, with a different standard for himself than others. I also pointed out that he has become a virtual spokesman for the right.

You see, O'Reilly does not go out and get the news himself. His producers and news gathering team does. It is also incumbent on the 'news team' to substantiate facts within those stories. O'Reilly in turn simply reports those stories(That he wants to.) and spins the story silly while he is doing so.
Even the last few posts are being substantiated on specualtion of the existence of possible hearsay.

Have you been watching the news? Bush is acting like a testy beyotch of late.
Even the title of the thread is kinda silly.

No, it is quite apt.
If you remember, on Monday everyone was talking about how NO dodged the bullet and it wasn't that bad.

Nonsense. All I saw about New Orleans being lucky was that they were not directly hit by Katrina. They were talking about the levees overflowing plenty.
That isn't Bush's fault in fact the levies have been designed to handle category 3 hurricanes only for decades.

True. He did not build the city or the levees. You should do some research on what he did with the funds they wanted to use on to improve the levees. (Or just read back in this thread.)
Then all the other ridculous ideas about having boats to pump water, Bush causing global warming, etc...

Some of those ideas are ridiculous. Bush did not cause global warming. However, his ilk and cronies are not helping the situation, in fact they are exacerbating the situation.
It's kinda like Lincoln said if you really look fo the evil in folks of course you're gonna find it.

Except you only have to search for about 2 seconds in this case. Not a good point.
Seriously, we should just have a Micheal Moore division of this website.

I agree, and a "Fox 'News' Channel" forum for the blind and deaf, I mean the righties.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Rich
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9/13/2005  2:38 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Alright guys,

Can we be done with this thread? While some good points were made and I think as the chief of state Bush is somewhat responsible for the poor rescue effort; this is really a rant thread by a bunch of leftists in NY(no suprise I guess) I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.(the last CNN one excepting) If one of these guys is criticized we have to have proof to the nth degree to not accept this information. If another analyst(i.e. O'Rielly) says something, anything can be used to completly discredit him(i.e the phone sex accusation) Even the last few posts are being substantiated on specualtion of the existence of possible hearsay. Even the title of the thread is kinda silly. If you remember, on Monday everyone was talking about how NO dodged the bullet and it wasn't that bad. The levies broke. That isn't Bush's fault in fact the levies have been designed to handle category 3 hurricanes only for decades. Then all the other ridculous ideas about having boats to pump water, Bush causing global warming, etc...It's kinda like Lincoln said if you really look fo the evil in folks of course you're gonna find it. Seriously, we should just have a Micheal Moore division of this website.

What a bunch of offensive nonsense.
BRIGGS
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9/13/2005  3:02 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Him saying it is only the beginning. I am stil waiting for the impeachment hearings to commence.

Fish, the debate is over when all is said and done. Alot more will unfold before we get to that point IMO.

I don't think we need an impechment--I fel he needs to address the needs of the American people right now

I think a VERY high majority would like to see

A. 6 month set exit stategy out of Iraq
B. A full rebuild of all housing for both insured and un-insured in any affected area.
C. In this rebuild effort, people affected should be given priority on jobs available to rebuild the cities.
D. A complete and thurough plan to make sure emergency services are available ANYWHERE in the US ASAP
E.A reconstruction of the military--building up state National Guards and making sure they do not enter foreign combat
F. A special tax for fiscal 2006 on people with net worths over 10mm--as in 60% taxes for 2006 on wages/land ownership etc..--basically the mega rich need to step up here even past any donation
G. A plan to re-develop foreign relationships hurt in the last 6 years
H. Unless a country is deemed an imminent proven threat, we cannot take military action of any kind.
RIP Crushalot😞
nykshaknbake
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9/13/2005  6:33 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Alright guys,

Can we be done with this thread? While some good points were made and I think as the chief of state Bush is somewhat responsible for the poor rescue effort; this is really a rant thread by a bunch of leftists in NY(no suprise I guess) I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.(the last CNN one excepting) If one of these guys is criticized we have to have proof to the nth degree to not accept this information. If another analyst(i.e. O'Rielly) says something, anything can be used to completly discredit him(i.e the phone sex accusation) Even the last few posts are being substantiated on specualtion of the existence of possible hearsay. Even the title of the thread is kinda silly. If you remember, on Monday everyone was talking about how NO dodged the bullet and it wasn't that bad. The levies broke. That isn't Bush's fault in fact the levies have been designed to handle category 3 hurricanes only for decades. Then all the other ridculous ideas about having boats to pump water, Bush causing global warming, etc...It's kinda like Lincoln said if you really look fo the evil in folks of course you're gonna find it. Seriously, we should just have a Micheal Moore division of this website.

What a bunch of offensive nonsense.


You're a bunch of offensive nonesense.
nykshaknbake
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9/13/2005  6:43 PM
A. 6 month set exit stategy out of Iraq
I don't think we can set a definitive timetable like that. It's not like we want to be there any longer than we have to. If you set a timetable all the baddies just wait untill then and when everyone's out cause greater chaos.

B. A full rebuild of all housing for both insured and un-insured in any affected area.
I'm kinda mimxed about this...not the insured uninsured part, but even rebuilding the place. It's still under sea level and it's not the most meterologically stable place. Is it worth rebuilding? This could happen again.

C. In this rebuild effort, people affected should be given priority on jobs available to rebuild the cities.
indubitably.

D. A complete and thurough plan to make sure emergency services are available ANYWHERE in the US ASAP
check.

E.A reconstruction of the military--building up state National Guards and making sure they do not enter foreign combat
probably a good idea, considering they aren't really that well trained as say the marines or regular army corps.

F. A special tax for fiscal 2006 on people with net worths over 10mm--as in 60% taxes for 2006 on wages/land ownership etc..--basically the mega rich need to step up here even past any donation
You would tax 60% of real estate?! So if someone owned 100 million in real estate he would have to give 60 million in the forst year, along w/ income tax?...Whoah.

G. A plan to re-develop foreign relationships hurt in the last 6 years
Friendships are based on necessity. They like us when we give them what they want and hate us when we don't. If possible yes, but never at the expense of any American interests.

H. Unless a country is deemed an imminent proven threat, we cannot take military action of any kind.
That's pretty vague wording..but I assume that you mean no preemptive measures...which I think you really have to examine each case by case.
[/quote]


oohah
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9/13/2005  7:08 PM
A. 6 month set exit stategy out of Iraq
I don't think we can set a definitive timetable like that. It's not like we want to be there any longer than we have to. If you set a timetable all the baddies just wait untill then and when everyone's out cause greater chaos.

There has to be a date set sometime doesn't there? Is the goal to stay in Iraq indefinitely?
B. A full rebuild of all housing for both insured and un-insured in any affected area.
I'm kinda mimxed about this...not the insured uninsured part, but even rebuilding the place. It's still under sea level and it's not the most meterologically stable place. Is it worth rebuilding? This could happen again.

NO will be rebuilt and it should be rebuilt but maybe it should not be what it was. Perhaps a "New New Orleans" (Where more people live.) and an "Old New Orleans" Which will be more business, tourism, etc. more of a metropolitan center. I guess I am talking about creating a suburb.
C. In this rebuild effort, people affected should be given priority on jobs available to rebuild the cities.
indubitably.

I'll third that.
D. A complete and thurough plan to make sure emergency services are available ANYWHERE in the US ASAP

Will never happen under GW Bush and let's hope it doesn't get tested again while he is the president.
E.A reconstruction of the military--building up state National Guards and making sure they do not enter foreign combat
probably a good idea, considering they aren't really that well trained as say the marines or regular army corps.

Virtually Anti-Bush (Unless he himself is serving.)
F. A special tax for fiscal 2006 on people with net worths over 10mm--as in 60% taxes for 2006 on wages/land ownership etc..--basically the mega rich need to step up here even past any donation
You would tax 60% of real estate?! So if someone owned 100 million in real estate he would have to give 60 million in the forst year, along w/ income tax?...Whoah.
check.

According to your calculations I don't know if I agree with this, but once again, the Bushes don't tax rich people, they give them breaks.
G. A plan to re-develop foreign relationships hurt in the last 6 years
Friendships are based on necessity. They like us when we give them what they want and hate us when we don't. If possible yes, but never at the expense of any American interests.

We'll have to wait until Bush is out of office to repair any relationships.
H. Unless a country is deemed an imminent proven threat, we cannot take military action of any kind.That's pretty vague wording..but I assume that you mean no preemptive measures...which I think you really have to examine each case by case.

Most assuredly not going to happen under Bush. This is actually a description of how we went to war.

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 09-13-2005 7:10 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Rich
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9/13/2005  7:27 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Alright guys,

Can we be done with this thread? While some good points were made and I think as the chief of state Bush is somewhat responsible for the poor rescue effort; this is really a rant thread by a bunch of leftists in NY(no suprise I guess) I mean we get all these articles posted by these fringe political socialists as proof that Bush is the root of all evil.(the last CNN one excepting) If one of these guys is criticized we have to have proof to the nth degree to not accept this information. If another analyst(i.e. O'Rielly) says something, anything can be used to completly discredit him(i.e the phone sex accusation) Even the last few posts are being substantiated on specualtion of the existence of possible hearsay. Even the title of the thread is kinda silly. If you remember, on Monday everyone was talking about how NO dodged the bullet and it wasn't that bad. The levies broke. That isn't Bush's fault in fact the levies have been designed to handle category 3 hurricanes only for decades. Then all the other ridculous ideas about having boats to pump water, Bush causing global warming, etc...It's kinda like Lincoln said if you really look fo the evil in folks of course you're gonna find it. Seriously, we should just have a Micheal Moore division of this website.

What a bunch of offensive nonsense.


You're a bunch of offensive nonesense.

That's a compliment from someone with your inability to reason.
BRIGGS
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9/13/2005  7:52 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

A. 6 month set exit stategy out of Iraq
I don't think we can set a definitive timetable like that. It's not like we want to be there any longer than we have to. If you set a timetable all the baddies just wait untill then and when everyone's out cause greater chaos.

B. A full rebuild of all housing for both insured and un-insured in any affected area.
I'm kinda mimxed about this...not the insured uninsured part, but even rebuilding the place. It's still under sea level and it's not the most meterologically stable place. Is it worth rebuilding? This could happen again.

C. In this rebuild effort, people affected should be given priority on jobs available to rebuild the cities.
indubitably.

D. A complete and thurough plan to make sure emergency services are available ANYWHERE in the US ASAP
check.

E.A reconstruction of the military--building up state National Guards and making sure they do not enter foreign combat
probably a good idea, considering they aren't really that well trained as say the marines or regular army corps.

F. A special tax for fiscal 2006 on people with net worths over 10mm--as in 60% taxes for 2006 on wages/land ownership etc..--basically the mega rich need to step up here even past any donation
You would tax 60% of real estate?! So if someone owned 100 million in real estate he would have to give 60 million in the forst year, along w/ income tax?...Whoah.

G. A plan to re-develop foreign relationships hurt in the last 6 years
Friendships are based on necessity. They like us when we give them what they want and hate us when we don't. If possible yes, but never at the expense of any American interests.

H. Unless a country is deemed an imminent proven threat, we cannot take military action of any kind.
That's pretty vague wording..but I assume that you mean no preemptive measures...which I think you really have to examine each case by case.


mill rates are usually 20-30 *assessment

for example if your home is assessed at 1,400,000[on a so-called luxury home, the assessment *usually* is 2-3 times less than the value of your home, not always-especialy with smaller beach properties, but most of the time its 2-3*} with a mill rate of 22 for example sans any special exrta assessments like full or part ownership of private beaches,ponds,etc... you pay a bill in taxes each year of around 30K. In this case it would be a special tax for 1 year--moving your mill rate to 60 and your taxes to roughly 90K--og which 60,000 would go to the special tax fund for katrina. With a net worth of 10mm$, you can absorb the extra funds quite easily. Right now there are many landowners with homes that have jacked in price--as has their taxes--like mine--who pay huge huge tax bills, who may not have anywhere close to net assets of 10mm. These people would be exempt--I look at 10mm in nets assets as super rich, and I believe that these people --who happen to control most of the United States money--especially the .01 club--they are the one's that can help the most. It's a lot of money, but not 60% of their overall wealth--but rather a one time rise in their mill rates.
RIP Crushalot😞
NYKBocker
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9/14/2005  9:13 AM
Yeah! Impeach the guy!

While I am not a fan of Bush this is the man that was elected president. Impeaching him could only hurt our government and society.

We made our bed. We need to sleep in it.

I know it is in fashion to question your elected leaders, but asking for his resignation does not do anything but weaken a great country in this turbulent times.
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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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