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Where the heck is Hillary Clinton?
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gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  7:58 PM
GustavBahler wrote:From writer Thomas Frank on why Hillary lost.


Start at the top. Why, oh why, did it have to be Hillary Clinton? Yes, she has an impressive resume; yes, she worked hard on the campaign trail. But she was exactly the wrong candidate for this angry, populist moment. An insider when the country was screaming for an outsider. A technocrat who offered fine-tuning when the country wanted to take a sledgehammer to the machine.

She was the Democratic candidate because it was her turn and because a Clinton victory would have moved every Democrat in Washington up a notch. Whether or not she would win was always a secondary matter, something that was taken for granted. Had winning been the party’s number one concern, several more suitable candidates were ready to go. There was Joe Biden, with his powerful plainspoken style, and there was Bernie Sanders, an inspiring and largely scandal-free figure. Each of them would probably have beaten Trump, but neither of them would really have served the interests of the party insiders. …

To try to put over such a nominee while screaming that the Republican is a rightwing monster is to court disbelief. If Trump is a fascist, as liberals often said, Democrats should have put in their strongest player to stop him, not a party hack they’d chosen because it was her turn. Choosing her indicated either that Democrats didn’t mean what they said about Trump’s riskiness, that their opportunism took precedence over the country’s well-being, or maybe both.

Clinton’s supporters among the media didn’t help much, either. It always struck me as strange that such an unpopular candidate enjoyed such robust and unanimous endorsements from the editorial and opinion pages of the nation’s papers, but it was the quality of the media’s enthusiasm that really harmed her. With the same arguments repeated over and over, two or three times a day, with nuance and contrary views all deleted, the act of opening the newspaper started to feel like tuning in to a Cold War propaganda station. Here’s what it consisted of:

• Hillary was virtually without flaws. She was a peerless leader clad in saintly white, a super-lawyer, a caring benefactor of women and children, a warrior for social justice.
• Her scandals weren’t real.
• The economy was doing well / America was already great.
• Working-class people weren’t supporting Trump.
• And if they were, it was only because they were botched humans. Racism was the only conceivable reason for lining up with the Republican candidate.

How did the journalists’ crusade fail? The fourth estate came together in an unprecedented professional consensus. They chose insulting the other side over trying to understand what motivated them. They transformed opinion writing into a vehicle for high moral boasting. What could possibly have gone wrong with such an approach?

Put this question in slightly more general terms and you are confronting the single great mystery of 2016. The American white-collar class just spent the year rallying around a super-competent professional (who really wasn’t all that competent) and either insulting or silencing everyone who didn’t accept their assessment. And then they lost. Maybe it’s time to consider whether there’s something about shrill self-righteousness, shouted from a position of high social status, that turns people away.

The even larger problem is that there is a kind of chronic complacency that has been rotting American liberalism for years, a hubris that tells Democrats they need do nothing different, they need deliver nothing really to anyone – except their friends on the Google jet and those nice people at Goldman. The rest of us are treated as though we have nowhere else to go and no role to play except to vote enthusiastically on the grounds that these Democrats are the “last thing standing” between us and the end of the world. It is a liberalism of the rich, it has failed the middle class, and now it has failed on its own terms of electability. Enough with these comfortable Democrats and their cozy Washington system. Enough with Clintonism and its prideful air of professional-class virtue. Enough!

Basically what every one of us have been saying for over a year. It is so frustrating when you are not getting through and the media no longer gives you a voice. The few that do you are not allowed to discuss publicly without being ridiculed and accused of being racist.

Maybe now the media will go back to serving their purpose again. We can only hope

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gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:00 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:It does look like Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. We shouldn't ignore that. Hillary got more Americans but Trump got more states.

While we talk about the wisdom of the founders and the primacy of the Constitution, we should let that Electoral College result sink in and think about when we talk about the US as a democracy, what we are really talking about.

It goes both ways and frankly should've never been this close. At least not according to UK. I mean go back to the posts from 2 days ago

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:05 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
nixluva wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.

No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.

We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election-Polls-Accuracy-Record-Presidential-Elections.aspx (edit)

As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.

We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.

So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...

Again, why is this a "this or that" argument (false dilemma)? Can't we work on all of these things?
I'm not the opposition.

You're misguided if you think this election was about fixing corruption or polls or "draining the swamp". That's all BS for the masses that bought that tripe. The same people that have been in government are STILL in government but now they have even more power to screw the people.

Please someone explain how things are better today for the people just cuz Trump is President? Trump is just a figurehead and the real power is still in the same hands. There has been no real change except now Big Business is in total control.

Who backed the Republicans that have been in the House and the Senate??? The same Koch Brothers and other Big Business leaders. They could give a crap about "the people "!

Nixluva - You don't know and yet you speak with certainty. If you want to give up before he even gets in office that is on you. I wouldn't have given up had Hillary won.
Trump is the first non politician to be in office since when? Was Reagan a politician after acting? We have a chance, I'll take that over a known corrupt quantity.

Also, keep in mind that things made not have panned out the way some people would've liked but you can help change that either by running yourself or getting offline and getting out there and help inspire everyone. Or move to a country better suited for you

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:14 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:How does he get congressional term limits enacted for instance? He's already looking to weaken the power of Congress. It's going to be interesting, guys. But we need to open our eyes to what's happening and not assume how things are going to play out. That's how we got here.

Very sound advice

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:18 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:David Duke is feeling very empowered this morning:

David Duke, the KKK and white people gotta be the reason Trump pulled this off

markvmc
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11/9/2016  8:21 PM
Detroit Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy: "We just elected an openly brazen, misogynist leader...We have just thrown a good part of our population under the bus...I’m having a hard time being with people. I’m going to walk into this arena tonight and realize that...most of these people voted for him. Like, ****, I don't have any respect for that.http://deadspin.com/stan-van-gundy-on-trumps-victory-we-have-just-thrown-1788776765
DrAlphaeus
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11/9/2016  8:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/9/2016  8:24 PM
gunsnewing wrote:David Duke, the KKK and white people gotta be the reason Trump pulled this off

Not saying that exactly. Definitely you have to give white people props for the win, but I'm not saying — nor have I ever said — that Trump voters are all racists or even that Trump himself is a racist. I've even wagged my finger at people who are on my ideological side who do that in this thread and others. I have said he played "footsie" with racists with half-hearted denouncements and retweets from the "14/88" alt-right crowd.

I am saying that white Christian nationalists are feeling empowered and that they are part of this victory and that is part of the "what do we have to lose" part that has a lot of citizens feeling scared today.

And I'm wondering: what Trump is going to do to assuage those fears after the type of campaign he ran?

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:25 PM
nixluva wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:David Duke is feeling very empowered this morning:

Bro, do you really want it to come to this? There will always be some pretty bad people who like whomever is elected, Hillary, Trump, don't matter.
What is the point?

I think the point is that all of the White Nationalist groups are feeling empowered. Trump was their candidate and now they will be more outspoken as they have been during Trump's campaign. There's no denying the Racist and Xenophobic undercurrents among his supporters. It's just a fact. I often wonder if people realize that a huge swath of the racists in this country from the 50's and 60's are still alive. They didn't just disappear after the Civil Rights Bill. If my 94 year old Grandmother is still here then there are plenty of people still around from the OLD America.

Nationalist or Supremacist?

30% of Hispanics,
60% white women are White Supremacist/Nationalists?

I also said many pages ago a lot of women were going to vote for Trump. Especially mothers. They trust Trump to keep their kids safe by a landslide over Hillary

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:28 PM
fitzfarm wrote:bernie supporters getting together for a peaceful protest march in DC when trump gets sworn in. # not my president

Probably should judge if it's going to be a "peaceful" protest after it takes place in Jan

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:29 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:bernie supporters getting together for a peaceful protest march in DC when trump gets sworn in. # not my president

anyone know how i can tell my daughter we voted this racist duchebag who grabs women by the *****. again this is the saddest day in American history

Do the best you can to keep her safe

DrAlphaeus
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11/9/2016  8:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/9/2016  8:32 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
nixluva wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:David Duke is feeling very empowered this morning:

Bro, do you really want it to come to this? There will always be some pretty bad people who like whomever is elected, Hillary, Trump, don't matter.
What is the point?

I think the point is that all of the White Nationalist groups are feeling empowered. Trump was their candidate and now they will be more outspoken as they have been during Trump's campaign. There's no denying the Racist and Xenophobic undercurrents among his supporters. It's just a fact. I often wonder if people realize that a huge swath of the racists in this country from the 50's and 60's are still alive. They didn't just disappear after the Civil Rights Bill. If my 94 year old Grandmother is still here then there are plenty of people still around from the OLD America.

Nationalist or Supremacist?

30% of Hispanics,
60% white women are White Supremacist/Nationalists?

I also said many pages ago a lot of women were going to vote for Trump. Especially mothers. They trust Trump to keep their kids safe by a landslide over Hillary

I'm saying nationalist to be "P.C." and use the terms that crowd prefers. And of course I'm not saying those people you just mentioned are.

I acknowledge I am talking about a small — very small I hope — but vocal minority of Trump supporters. But this is out there.

I'm speaking to the fear and dread I'm seeing in people's eyes today. My sister's Pakistani-American co-worker who was voting with their friend in a headscarf and someone yelled "go back to Syria" — and this was in Jersey City. You know, that place Donald Trump said he saw people cheering on 9/11 which he couldn't have seen.

I'm speaking to the bullied Latino kids in schools around the country. The kid who sees his parents crying and then comes to school and asks my teacher sister if that means because they will get deported (they are documented BTW). If BRIGGS gets to lean on his antifreeze-drinking Chinese anecdote as an explanation why he supports Trump, I point to these anecdotes on why people are scared.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  8:36 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:
holfresh wrote:
nixluva wrote:What really pisses me off is that the Republicans were completely obstructionist from day one with Obama. They never tried to work with him and in fact plotted to do everything they could to disrupt what he tried to do. The Dems never did that to Republican presidents and haven't been that nasty after Trump's win. Instead they are being very gracious and talking about working with Trump. This is not right and both sides are not the same in this regard, even when Dems obstruct it's not anywhere near the same level. They worked with Reagan and Bush. They didn't throw trash into the gears to shut down the government like the Republicans.

All the Republicans care about is being in power. Once they get what they want they are all so cooperative and all of a sudden looking to actually govern, which they literally stopped doing for 8 years. Now that they have UNITED government they have all these plans and ideas they want to get right to work on. Stuff they could've done to help the country the last 8 years but refused to do. It's truly sinister. Now they'll be passing BOATLOADS of bills and making all kinds of changes. Where was all of that the last 8 years when we needed it?


Whats funny is that they didn't want to work with Obama on the infrastructure spending bill, they said no...The also rejected Obama 28% corporate tax proposal bill and cut loopholes...But Trump will fix it..But as long as it gets done, it's all good...

Trump wanted to illuminate the death tax so he could pass his wealth to his kids, well that will happen now...

illuminate or eliminate the death tax?
Should a person be taxed leaving money to their children? Seems like they are all part of the same family. Billionaire or not, stay away from Family matters government.

Death tax. Probably the most ridiculous law. Not only does it suck to die but the only thing that helps you sleep at night, knowing your kids will be cared for after your lifelong effort. You get taxed again on your money that you already paid tax on. Can't make it up. For what?

djsunyc
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11/9/2016  9:16 PM
death tax?

do you realize the first 5.65 million dollars is tax free?

who do you think he's eliminating the death tax for? you? if so, then you are lucky.

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  9:21 PM
djsunyc wrote:death tax?

do you realize the first 5.65 million dollars is tax free?

who do you think he's eliminating the death tax for? you? if so, then you are lucky.

whew! Forgot death and estate tax was the same thing!

holfresh
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11/9/2016  9:25 PM
Trump protestor in several cities across the US..
gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  9:30 PM
Either way why take someone's money that was earned. The government shouldn't have that right. If they want to pass every penny of those millions and billions to their kids they should be able to.

Take it away from those who didn't earn it or stole it from foundations and such

Vmart
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11/9/2016  9:34 PM
holfresh wrote:Trump protestor in several cities across the US..

People voted accept it. These protesters are being ridiculous.

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  9:39 PM
Vmart wrote:
holfresh wrote:Trump protestor in several cities across the US..

People voted accept it. These protesters are being ridiculous.

They just put one of them on camera who in broken english said he can never accept Trump as President.

He then followed that with "Grab her by the *****!"

It's ok. Let these protesters have their final month and a half

holfresh
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11/9/2016  9:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/9/2016  9:45 PM
Vmart wrote:
holfresh wrote:Trump protestor in several cities across the US..

People voted accept it. These protesters are being ridiculous.

Electoral college mutes their voting power..It's not one man one vote in this country..Ellectoral college is skewed towards the republicans..So you see DEM winning the popular vote but REP in office..

Why should a guy in Ohio vote count more than mine...

gunsnewing
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11/9/2016  9:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/9/2016  9:46 PM
holfresh wrote:
Vmart wrote:
holfresh wrote:Trump protestor in several cities across the US..

People voted accept it. These protesters are being ridiculous.

Electoral college mutes their voting power..It's not one man one vote in this country..Ellectoral college is skewed towards the republicans..So you see DEM winning the popular vote but REP in office..

Why should a guy in Ohio vote count more than mine...

The fact that is was this close proves how flawed Hillary was. Predictions had her winning by a landslide.

Thats the law for both parties. Like Vmart said now you have to accept it and deal with it

Where the heck is Hillary Clinton?

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