earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.

No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.

We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election-Polls-Accuracy-Record-Presidential-Elections.aspx (edit)

As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.

We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.

So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...

Again, why is this a "this or that" argument (false dilemma)? Can't we work on all of these things?
I'm not the opposition.

You're misguided if you think this election was about fixing corruption or polls or "draining the swamp". That's all BS for the masses that bought that tripe. The same people that have been in government are STILL in government but now they have even more power to screw the people.

Please someone explain how things are better today for the people just cuz Trump is President? Trump is just a figurehead and the real power is still in the same hands. There has been no real change except now Big Business is in total control.

Who backed the Republicans that have been in the House and the Senate??? The same Koch Brothers and other Big Business leaders. They could give a crap about "the people "!

Nixluva - You don't know and yet you speak with certainty. If you want to give up before he even gets in office that is on you. I wouldn't have given up had Hillary won.
Trump is the first non politician to be in office since when? Was Reagan a politician after acting? We have a chance, I'll take that over a known corrupt quantity.

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.

No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.

We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election-Polls-Accuracy-Record-Presidential-Elections.aspx (edit)

As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.

We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.

So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...

Again, why is this a "this or that" argument (false dilemma)? Can't we work on all of these things?
I'm not the opposition.

You're misguided if you think this election was about fixing corruption or polls or "draining the swamp". That's all BS for the masses that bought that tripe. The same people that have been in government are STILL in government but now they have even more power to screw the people.

Please someone explain how things are better today for the people just cuz Trump is President? Trump is just a figurehead and the real power is still in the same hands. There has been no real change except now Big Business is in total control.

Who backed the Republicans that have been in the House and the Senate??? The same Koch Brothers and other Big Business leaders. They could give a crap about "the people "!

Nixluva - You don't know and yet you speak with certainty. If you want to give up before he even gets in office that is on you. I wouldn't have given up had Hillary won.
Trump is the first non politician to be in office since when? Was Reagan a politician after acting? We have a chance, I'll take that over a known corrupt quantity.

The sad part is that I DO KNOW that The Congress is made up of the very same Republicans that have been there for YEARS and they are bought and paid for by Big Business like the Koch Brothers. That's always been their thing and they have not changed even if Trump was selling his populist spiel to RED America. These voters have put their trust in Trump and he will not be able to overcome the wishes of the House and Senate Republicans. He will soon learn that his power is very limited.

I don't know man. A lot of folks in Congress owe their election to Trump now. Because their jobs are up for election again in 2 years while Trump isn't for 4 years.

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.

No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.

We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election-Polls-Accuracy-Record-Presidential-Elections.aspx (edit)

As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.

We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.

So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...

Again, why is this a "this or that" argument (false dilemma)? Can't we work on all of these things?
I'm not the opposition.

You're misguided if you think this election was about fixing corruption or polls or "draining the swamp". That's all BS for the masses that bought that tripe. The same people that have been in government are STILL in government but now they have even more power to screw the people.

Please someone explain how things are better today for the people just cuz Trump is President? Trump is just a figurehead and the real power is still in the same hands. There has been no real change except now Big Business is in total control.

Who backed the Republicans that have been in the House and the Senate??? The same Koch Brothers and other Big Business leaders. They could give a crap about "the people "!

I agree and now we will see what Trump will do and he wont be draining the swamp. The rich will get richer and the jobs aren't coming back and for anyone who thinks so is a fool. Trump scammed the white none working , black none working and Latino none working class and only time will tell. The only thing he will be draining is the pockets of the middle working class.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

nixluva wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

holfresh wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.

No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.

We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election-Polls-Accuracy-Record-Presidential-Elections.aspx (edit)

As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.

We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.

So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...

Again, why is this a "this or that" argument (false dilemma)? Can't we work on all of these things?
I'm not the opposition.

You're misguided if you think this election was about fixing corruption or polls or "draining the swamp". That's all BS for the masses that bought that tripe. The same people that have been in government are STILL in government but now they have even more power to screw the people.

Please someone explain how things are better today for the people just cuz Trump is President? Trump is just a figurehead and the real power is still in the same hands. There has been no real change except now Big Business is in total control.

Who backed the Republicans that have been in the House and the Senate??? The same Koch Brothers and other Big Business leaders. They could give a crap about "the people "!

Nixluva - You don't know and yet you speak with certainty. If you want to give up before he even gets in office that is on you. I wouldn't have given up had Hillary won.
Trump is the first non politician to be in office since when? Was Reagan a politician after acting? We have a chance, I'll take that over a known corrupt quantity.

The sad part is that I DO KNOW that The Congress is made up of the very same Republicans that have been there for YEARS and they are bought and paid for by Big Business like the Koch Brothers. That's always been their thing and they have not changed even if Trump was selling his populist spiel to RED America. These voters have put their trust in Trump and he will not be able to overcome the wishes of the House and Senate Republicans. He will soon learn that his power is very limited.

I don't know man. A lot of folks in Congress owe their election to Trump now. Because their jobs are up for election again in 2 years while Trump isn't for 4 years.

gunsnewing wrote:And Trump didn't even need full support from his own party. America has spoken!

Papabear Says

Lets see after a couple of years. The same corrupt people are still in the Senate and Congress. Their plan is no secret, lower taxes for the rich and the jobs will come. Good Luck.

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Wow, Republicans control the ENTIRE country - they have the Presidency, The Senate, the House, the Governorships, the State Congresses. Unless Trump surprises us and is more moderate than he seemed, I think the country is going to move very far to the right for many decades.

America's first independent President. It's the best thing to ever happen to us

You are naive. The real Power is in the House and Senate and Trump is not a serious Policy man. The same old Republicans that have been in power all these years will be running the show. You will not get the change you were promised because Trump can't "drain the swamp". All he gets to do is change the Drapes in the Oval Office. It's all about the House and Senate and those people have not changed.

if clinton had won, you would NEVER call her powerless, so why are you calling trump powerless? your post is saying who the president is doesn't matter, because the house and senate are the same. you should try alleviating your bias every now and then.

DrAlphaeus wrote:Trump wants an infrastructure bill. Pelosi already saying she wants to work on this with Trump Administration. How does Freedom Caucus cut the government types respond to this? Will be one of the first battles, along with Obamacare.

McConnell was talking about Deficit Neutral bills and really any "Infrastructure Bill" is really a Massive Stimulus which they don't believe in. Why wouldn't the Congress have worked with Obama on his Infrastructure Bill if they were truly interested in rebuilding America??? It's simple for one thing they could give a crap and 2 they would NEVER want to give Obama a win like that.

All of these Republicans are the same ones who threatened not to raise the Debt Ceiling and go into default. They have been pushing Tax cuts and Spending Cuts. Remember the Sequester??? That's what they believe in and it would be a major about face to now all of a sudden agree to a huge spending bill for Trumps Infrastructure Plan which he said was twice as big as Hillary's!!!

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Wow, Republicans control the ENTIRE country - they have the Presidency, The Senate, the House, the Governorships, the State Congresses. Unless Trump surprises us and is more moderate than he seemed, I think the country is going to move very far to the right for many decades.

America's first independent President. It's the best thing to ever happen to us

You are naive. The real Power is in the House and Senate and Trump is not a serious Policy man. The same old Republicans that have been in power all these years will be running the show. You will not get the change you were promised because Trump can't "drain the swamp". All he gets to do is change the Drapes in the Oval Office. It's all about the House and Senate and those people have not changed.

if clinton had won, you would NEVER call her powerless, so why are you calling trump powerless? your post is saying who the president is doesn't matter, because the house and senate are the same. you should try alleviating your bias every now and then.

Now the only way it happens is if the Republicans abandon their fiscal responsibility and Cut Taxes but give him his money unpaid for. That would lead to Economic ruin. You can't do both massive Tax Cuts and Major Spending Bills like Infrastructure.

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Wow, Republicans control the ENTIRE country - they have the Presidency, The Senate, the House, the Governorships, the State Congresses. Unless Trump surprises us and is more moderate than he seemed, I think the country is going to move very far to the right for many decades.

America's first independent President. It's the best thing to ever happen to us

You are naive. The real Power is in the House and Senate and Trump is not a serious Policy man. The same old Republicans that have been in power all these years will be running the show. You will not get the change you were promised because Trump can't "drain the swamp". All he gets to do is change the Drapes in the Oval Office. It's all about the House and Senate and those people have not changed.

if clinton had won, you would NEVER call her powerless, so why are you calling trump powerless? your post is saying who the president is doesn't matter, because the house and senate are the same. you should try alleviating your bias every now and then.

You don't know what you're talking about!!! If Clinton had won and won the Senate that would be a different situation. Sure there would've been divided government but some things that Dems want would get done. Trump of course has the powers given to the Executive but right now Trump has his NON Conservative plans which call for massive spending and he doesn't have a way to pay for any of it. The Republicans will not give him what he wants which means he will not be able to directly do what he promised his voters.

Now the only way it happens is if the Republicans abandon their fiscal responsibility and Cut Taxes but give him his money unpaid for. That would lead to Economic ruin. You can't do both massive Tax Cuts and Major Spending Bills like Infrastructure.

Welp, here is his "contract with the American voter":
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf

Donald Trump’s Contract
with the American Voter

What follows is my 100-day action plan to Make America Great Again.
It is a contract between myself and the American voter — and begins with restoring honesty and accountability, and bringing change to Washington.

On the first day of my term of office, my administration will immediately pursue the following:

Six measures to clean up the
corruption and special interest
collusion in Washington, DC:
★ FIRST, propose a constitutional amendment to
impose term limits on all members of Congress.
★ SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees
to reduce the federal workforce through attrition
(exempting military, public safety, and public health).
★ THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation,
two existing regulations must be eliminated.
★ FOURTH, a fi ve-year ban on White House and
Congressional offi cials becoming lobbyists after they
leave government service.
★ FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House offi cials lobbying
on behalf of a foreign government.
★ SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising
money for American elections.

Seven actions to protect
American workers:
★ FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate
NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205.
★ SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the
Trans-Pacifi c Partnership.
★ THIRD, I will direct the Secretary of the Treasury to label
China a currency manipulator.
★ FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of
Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to
identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly
impact American workers and direct them to
use every tool under American and international
law to end those abuses immediately.
★ FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the
production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of
job-producing American energy reserves,
including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
★ SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital
energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline,
to move forward.
★ SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate
change programs and use the money to fi x America’s
water and environmental infrastructure.
Five actions to restore security
and the constitutional rule of law:
★ FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action,
memorandum and order issued by President Obama.
★ SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement
for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list,
who will uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution.
★ THIRD, cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities.
★ FOURTH, begin removing the more than two million
criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel
visas to foreign countries that won’t take them back.
★ FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions
where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people
coming into our country will be considered “extreme vetting.”

There is back page of various acts he plans to implement. This is the starting point right now when talking about Trump's policy and the way forward.

nixluva wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

nixluva wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Trump wants an infrastructure bill. Pelosi already saying she wants to work on this with Trump Administration. How does Freedom Caucus cut the government types respond to this? Will be one of the first battles, along with Obamacare.

McConnell was talking about Deficit Neutral bills and really any "Infrastructure Bill" is really a Massive Stimulus which they don't believe in. Why wouldn't the Congress have worked with Obama on his Infrastructure Bill if they were truly interested in rebuilding America??? It's simple for one thing they could give a crap and 2 they would NEVER want to give Obama a win like that.

All of these Republicans are the same ones who threatened not to raise the Debt Ceiling and go into default. They have been pushing Tax cuts and Spending Cuts. Remember the Sequester??? That's what they believe in and it would be a major about face to now all of a sudden agree to a huge spending bill for Trumps Infrastructure Plan which he said was twice as big as Hillary's!!!

Yea I don't know how it is going to work, how it's going to be sold, how they will say it will be paid for. By eliminating a couple of cabinet-level departments? Quid pro quo for tax reform or a Supreme Court justice of a particular stripe?

The congressional Republicans may be the same but it's a new landscape. I don't know how it will work, but anyone still assuming how things will work right now might be fooling themselves, no offense.

I'm not fooling myself. I'm going by what Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have said!!! Trump will get the Tax Cuts cuz that fits into Republican plans. A lot of the stuff he proposed will be forgotten over time and they'll pretend he never promised it to his voters. They'll throw some window dressing out there to make it seem like they're doing something for the people. They know how to do this.

You may be right. Up to Democratic Party or what's left to call him out on this, but will people listen to them? Or will they be too busy fighting amongst themselves? This DNC / superdelegates / Wikileaks / buddy buddy cozy relationship between the leadership and the media has shown that the leadership has its head so far up its ass it couldn't adequately respond to the situation on the ground. Old guard has little clout.

I can't help to think of the period after Reconstruction in terms of the reversal of certain political battles. First election since 1965 no Voters Rights Act. "Hope" turns into despair. This is very deep stuff.