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smackeddog
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10/26/2019  2:52 PM
Chandler wrote:Personally i'm going to wait 10 games before bringing out the gasoline

My guess is that Fizz is starting what he considers to be his 5 best regardless of position. Not necessarily what I would do but I can see the logic.

He is struggling because there is a glut at pf and pg, and because deep down inside he wants everyone to like him

there is a good chance, though, that there will be more than one unhappy camper about his role/minutes.

IMO what is more important is Fizz has to get the team to respect him and the "system" he is trying to run. There is many a great coach who had tension with players, but eventually the players came around because they preferred to win (and those that put their minutes ahead of winning should not be on team anyway)

FWIW I see Frank cheering his teammates even though he's being jobbed; and I see DSJ sulking even though he is sucking right now.

Do you give all other rebuilding teams 10 games? Don’t think people get how impatient they are- this process takes years
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Knicksfan
Posts: 33474
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10/26/2019  4:13 PM
Chandler wrote:Personally i'm going to wait 10 games before bringing out the gasoline

My guess is that Fizz is starting what he considers to be his 5 best regardless of position. Not necessarily what I would do but I can see the logic.

He is struggling because there is a glut at pf and pg, and because deep down inside he wants everyone to like him

there is a good chance, though, that there will be more than one unhappy camper about his role/minutes.

IMO what is more important is Fizz has to get the team to respect him and the "system" he is trying to run. There is many a great coach who had tension with players, but eventually the players came around because they preferred to win (and those that put their minutes ahead of winning should not be on team anyway)

FWIW I see Frank cheering his teammates even though he's being jobbed; and I see DSJ sulking even though he is sucking right now.

We all see it and it certainly doesn’t help Smith Jr’s case nor makes the decision to keep going to him instead of Frank any more likesble.

It makes sense in terms of apparent overall importance in terms of potential, as Fiz and many still believe in the star potential of Smith. But if he is healthy as everyone says, he needs to fix his game away from the Knicks court, at least at first.

Knicks_Fan
Welpee
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10/26/2019  5:47 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

I think Smith had a great camp and had taken a step forward prior to his back injury. I think Fiz keeps hoping the Smith he saw in camp will appear despite his back injury. Rhythm definitely plays a part in performance but it doesn’t overcome injuries.
I agree about Kadeem. Kadeem was one of the guys Fiz took to a playoff game this past season.
What indication do we have that Smith had a good camp? We're not privy to their practices and honestly you can't trust anything coaches say about what is going on behind the scenes in training camp. And I hope you're not basing this on his off-season videos.

Not trying to throw shade, just curious what information you have that makes you say Smith had a great camp prior to the back issue?

No information other than what was reported and what Fiz said. But it was talked about a a lot. His weight loss, his revised shot, his diet, a revised approach to fitness and his great camp were all raved about at different times this past offseason and then he reinjured his back. What would be the motivation for all avaialable sources to go with this narrative? Is it possible that he was having a great camp and then reinjured his back?
The motivation is the same with other players. People tend to be overly optimistic and overly positive leading up to the start of the season. We see this all the time over and over again. We heard similar reports about Michael Beasley when he was here and we got the same ole Michael Beasley once the season started. The only report I remember is Fizdale saying he dominated a 5 on 5 scrimmage before hurting his back.

Sorry if I'm overly skeptical but I don't trust any of these reports until I see these guys for myself. I bet Dallas fans would share similar reports about Smith after his rookie season.
Knicksfan
Posts: 33474
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10/26/2019  5:56 PM
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

I think Smith had a great camp and had taken a step forward prior to his back injury. I think Fiz keeps hoping the Smith he saw in camp will appear despite his back injury. Rhythm definitely plays a part in performance but it doesn’t overcome injuries.
I agree about Kadeem. Kadeem was one of the guys Fiz took to a playoff game this past season.
What indication do we have that Smith had a good camp? We're not privy to their practices and honestly you can't trust anything coaches say about what is going on behind the scenes in training camp. And I hope you're not basing this on his off-season videos.

Not trying to throw shade, just curious what information you have that makes you say Smith had a great camp prior to the back issue?

No information other than what was reported and what Fiz said. But it was talked about a a lot. His weight loss, his revised shot, his diet, a revised approach to fitness and his great camp were all raved about at different times this past offseason and then he reinjured his back. What would be the motivation for all avaialable sources to go with this narrative? Is it possible that he was having a great camp and then reinjured his back?
The motivation is the same with other players. People tend to be overly optimistic and overly positive leading up to the start of the season. We see this all the time over and over again. We heard similar reports about Michael Beasley when he was here and we got the same ole Michael Beasley once the season started. The only report I remember is Fizdale saying he dominated a 5 on 5 scrimmage before hurting his back.

Sorry if I'm overly skeptical but I don't trust any of these reports until I see these guys for myself. I bet Dallas fans would share similar reports about Smith after his rookie season.

Last season Smith Jr would be an improvement over this year’s.

Knicks_Fan
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
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10/26/2019  6:01 PM
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

I think Smith had a great camp and had taken a step forward prior to his back injury. I think Fiz keeps hoping the Smith he saw in camp will appear despite his back injury. Rhythm definitely plays a part in performance but it doesn’t overcome injuries.
I agree about Kadeem. Kadeem was one of the guys Fiz took to a playoff game this past season.
What indication do we have that Smith had a good camp? We're not privy to their practices and honestly you can't trust anything coaches say about what is going on behind the scenes in training camp. And I hope you're not basing this on his off-season videos.

Not trying to throw shade, just curious what information you have that makes you say Smith had a great camp prior to the back issue?

No information other than what was reported and what Fiz said. But it was talked about a a lot. His weight loss, his revised shot, his diet, a revised approach to fitness and his great camp were all raved about at different times this past offseason and then he reinjured his back. What would be the motivation for all avaialable sources to go with this narrative? Is it possible that he was having a great camp and then reinjured his back?
The motivation is the same with other players. People tend to be overly optimistic and overly positive leading up to the start of the season. We see this all the time over and over again. We heard similar reports about Michael Beasley when he was here and we got the same ole Michael Beasley once the season started. The only report I remember is Fizdale saying he dominated a 5 on 5 scrimmage before hurting his back.

Sorry if I'm overly skeptical but I don't trust any of these reports until I see these guys for myself. I bet Dallas fans would share similar reports about Smith after his rookie season.


There was a lot more out there. Hahn raved about him on a podcast. Smith didn’t lose his athleticism over the summer. I think he is only 21. He is hurt. I don’t remember hearing the same buzz about any other player on the Knicks this past offseason.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Knicksfan
Posts: 33474
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 7/5/2004
Member: #691
USA
10/26/2019  6:13 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

I think Smith had a great camp and had taken a step forward prior to his back injury. I think Fiz keeps hoping the Smith he saw in camp will appear despite his back injury. Rhythm definitely plays a part in performance but it doesn’t overcome injuries.
I agree about Kadeem. Kadeem was one of the guys Fiz took to a playoff game this past season.
What indication do we have that Smith had a good camp? We're not privy to their practices and honestly you can't trust anything coaches say about what is going on behind the scenes in training camp. And I hope you're not basing this on his off-season videos.

Not trying to throw shade, just curious what information you have that makes you say Smith had a great camp prior to the back issue?

No information other than what was reported and what Fiz said. But it was talked about a a lot. His weight loss, his revised shot, his diet, a revised approach to fitness and his great camp were all raved about at different times this past offseason and then he reinjured his back. What would be the motivation for all avaialable sources to go with this narrative? Is it possible that he was having a great camp and then reinjured his back?
The motivation is the same with other players. People tend to be overly optimistic and overly positive leading up to the start of the season. We see this all the time over and over again. We heard similar reports about Michael Beasley when he was here and we got the same ole Michael Beasley once the season started. The only report I remember is Fizdale saying he dominated a 5 on 5 scrimmage before hurting his back.

Sorry if I'm overly skeptical but I don't trust any of these reports until I see these guys for myself. I bet Dallas fans would share similar reports about Smith after his rookie season.


There was a lot more out there. Hahn raved about him on a podcast. Smith didn’t lose his athleticism over the summer. I think he is only 21. He is hurt. I don’t remember hearing the same buzz about any other player on the Knicks this past offseason.

If he is hurt, he shouldn’t be out there. He should be recovering so he can play to a high level.

Knicks_Fan
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
10/26/2019  6:30 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

I think Smith had a great camp and had taken a step forward prior to his back injury. I think Fiz keeps hoping the Smith he saw in camp will appear despite his back injury. Rhythm definitely plays a part in performance but it doesn’t overcome injuries.
I agree about Kadeem. Kadeem was one of the guys Fiz took to a playoff game this past season.
What indication do we have that Smith had a good camp? We're not privy to their practices and honestly you can't trust anything coaches say about what is going on behind the scenes in training camp. And I hope you're not basing this on his off-season videos.

Not trying to throw shade, just curious what information you have that makes you say Smith had a great camp prior to the back issue?

No information other than what was reported and what Fiz said. But it was talked about a a lot. His weight loss, his revised shot, his diet, a revised approach to fitness and his great camp were all raved about at different times this past offseason and then he reinjured his back. What would be the motivation for all avaialable sources to go with this narrative? Is it possible that he was having a great camp and then reinjured his back?
The motivation is the same with other players. People tend to be overly optimistic and overly positive leading up to the start of the season. We see this all the time over and over again. We heard similar reports about Michael Beasley when he was here and we got the same ole Michael Beasley once the season started. The only report I remember is Fizdale saying he dominated a 5 on 5 scrimmage before hurting his back.

Sorry if I'm overly skeptical but I don't trust any of these reports until I see these guys for myself. I bet Dallas fans would share similar reports about Smith after his rookie season.


There was a lot more out there. Hahn raved about him on a podcast. Smith didn’t lose his athleticism over the summer. I think he is only 21. He is hurt. I don’t remember hearing the same buzz about any other player on the Knicks this past offseason.

If he is hurt, he shouldn’t be out there. He should be recovering so he can play to a high level.


Yes. On court time and his rhythm are not what is going to fix him. I didn’t notice him wearing the back brace when he wasn’t on the court last night but he had it for game one.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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