Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:Well thank goodness the Pacers were so bad today especially Hibbert but Melo taking 22FGA to score 26pts with 0ast will not prove beneficial in the long run if he duplicates this kind of output. He needs to learn to become a more efficient player.

Stats really don't tell the full story.

It was a few plays where he passed out but that particular player whipped the ball to a better shot.

Plus, a few of his attempt he was fouled on but no call but he was able to stay with the ball to eventually make a score with it.

He's averaging 1.7ast on the season with 0 today....if this continues I can't see how it will prove to be a positive for us

It's the pass that leads to another pass to a good shot.

He doesn't get the statistical credit for that, but alot of that is going on.

Here's an interesting stat to put assists into perspective...

The Knicks are 27th in the league in team assists, yet are first in not turning the ball over at 10, and the next team is at 13.

You know what that tells me......

They are sharing the ball until someone h
as a great chance to make their move.

Low assists but high PPG tells me something very different - they're getting a lot of their points from one-on-one play rather than passing.

Kidd passes the ball to Felton who passes the ball to a wide open JR. JR pump fakes, takes 4 dribbles to get a better and closer shot and drains the basket. Great possession but no assist on the play. See what I'm getting at?

Interesting theory. Do you have any evidence that that's happening more often for the Knicks than any other teams?

All I can tell you is the conclusion I arrived at by watching the Knicks play their games but one can arrive at a similar conclusion by looking up Hollinger's team stat rankings.

The Knicks are tied for 21st in Assist Ratio at 16. We're 24th in offensive rebounding rate which means that we aren't scoring a ton on putbacks. However, we are 5th in effective FG% at 51.6%, 7th in TS% at 54.9 and 2nd in offensive efficiency behind Miami which is a bit crazy as we are 29th in pace.

Statistically, this leads me to believe that the ball is moving and players are working themselves into a better position to take higher percentage shots. We wouldn't be hitting such a high percentage of shots by simply playing and relying on 1 on 1 ball. My eyes confirm.

mrKnickShot wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:It is so funny to see people whine about Melo's fg% which is 44% right now.

Meanwhile:

The great Gallo is shooting 34% this year.
The great Lin is shooting below 35% this year.
The great Wilson Chandler is shooting 31% this year.

Melo is literally shooting just about 10% better than all the ex-Knick's and the "Gift".

please im begging you stop with the knicks vs former knicks crap. Lets focus on the good season we are having

Why should I?!?! We all know certain posters hate for Melo revolves around their lust for ex-knicks. Melo is shooting 44% and people are acting like he is shooting 35%. Eventually Melo will make more of his shots around the rim and his fg% will improve. And then people will find something else to complain about.

nah, this is what you do.. you bring up those guys every time you can..... melo is shooting 44% and that is not good enough.. I mean is that what you want from your so called franchise player? why such low standards, why not aim for 49% which deng is shooting, or 53% which lebron is shooting, he is getting paid more than both guys, and he is supposed to be the face of this franchise... why keep bringing up players whom you feel are inferior to him as the standard to which defend melo.. it is ridiculous on every level especially with the way you feel about former knicks...

We didn't give up Deng or Lebron for Melo we gave up 34% Gallo and 31% Chandler. Melo was the reason why 35% Linsanity ended. Now that the offseason is over and hypotheticals turn into reality and you can't brag about them its not a fair ball game anymore I see.

Melo is shooting 44%, but he is attacking the basket he isn't just shooting poor jumpshots. He gets a couple more calls when he is getting whacked and his fg% would sky rocket. With that said didn't really like the way he played offensively that much. We need to get back to the ball movement like the first few games. His defense on West was great though.

so again, as long as carmelo is shooting a better % than those guys, knick fans should be happy? if that works for you.. have at it.. but it makes absolutely no sense...... If you feel those guys are vastly inferior than it should not be a surprise, but when someone says that 44% is not good enough, pointing out what gallo, lin, etc shoots, is just a piss poor way to defend that point....

but you do see how what you said really makes no sense.... 35% linsanity.. I didn't know lin ws shooting that bad last year. unless you have some stats to back that up, what you are just doing is going out of a way to try to make a point that just isn't there..

Carmelo has surpassed Wade as a player, and will continue to be put up better numbers for the next 5 years. Yes, Wade has 2 rings and a Finals MVP and wil probably rank higher on the all time list of players. But he's putting up fringe all star numbers now while Anthony is in his prime. No way I take Wade over Melo for today or the future. I see Wade in street clothes once a week.

And as the Celtics have faded, Rondo just doesn't seem as valuabe now.

When your team wins the way we have, your best player's weaknesses just aren't as glaring as you make them out to be.

Really? Surpassed Wade?

C'mon dude.

can't believe we agree on something.... damn.... let me look out my window to see if a comet isn't headed towards earth..

but more shocking than that is how he said Boston has faded..

Liste, being 7-1 is great, but some fans are going overboard.. it is early, as well as we have played we are just 2.5 games up on boston, and they have played 3 more games than us.... faded? really?

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:It is so funny to see people whine about Melo's fg% which is 44% right now.

Meanwhile:

The great Gallo is shooting 34% this year.
The great Lin is shooting below 35% this year.
The great Wilson Chandler is shooting 31% this year.

Melo is literally shooting just about 10% better than all the ex-Knick's and the "Gift".

please im begging you stop with the knicks vs former knicks crap. Lets focus on the good season we are having

Why should I?!?! We all know certain posters hate for Melo revolves around their lust for ex-knicks. Melo is shooting 44% and people are acting like he is shooting 35%. Eventually Melo will make more of his shots around the rim and his fg% will improve. And then people will find something else to complain about.

nah, this is what you do.. you bring up those guys every time you can..... melo is shooting 44% and that is not good enough.. I mean is that what you want from your so called franchise player? why such low standards, why not aim for 49% which deng is shooting, or 53% which lebron is shooting, he is getting paid more than both guys, and he is supposed to be the face of this franchise... why keep bringing up players whom you feel are inferior to him as the standard to which defend melo.. it is ridiculous on every level especially with the way you feel about former knicks...

We didn't give up Deng or Lebron for Melo we gave up 34% Gallo and 31% Chandler. Melo was the reason why 35% Linsanity ended. Now that the offseason is over and hypotheticals turn into reality and you can't brag about them its not a fair ball game anymore I see.

Melo is shooting 44%, but he is attacking the basket he isn't just shooting poor jumpshots. He gets a couple more calls when he is getting whacked and his fg% would sky rocket. With that said didn't really like the way he played offensively that much. We need to get back to the ball movement like the first few games. His defense on West was great though.

so again, as long as carmelo is shooting a better % than those guys, knick fans should be happy? if that works for you.. have at it.. but it makes absolutely no sense...... If you feel those guys are vastly inferior than it should not be a surprise, but when someone says that 44% is not good enough, pointing out what gallo, lin, etc shoots, is just a piss poor way to defend that point....

but you do see how what you said really makes no sense.... 35% linsanity.. I didn't know lin ws shooting that bad last year. unless you have some stats to back that up, what you are just doing is going out of a way to try to make a point that just isn't there..

Carmelo has surpassed Wade as a player, and will continue to be put up better numbers for the next 5 years. Yes, Wade has 2 rings and a Finals MVP and wil probably rank higher on the all time list of players. But he's putting up fringe all star numbers now while Anthony is in his prime. No way I take Wade over Melo for today or the future. I see Wade in street clothes once a week.

And as the Celtics have faded, Rondo just doesn't seem as valuabe now.

When your team wins the way we have, your best player's weaknesses just aren't as glaring as you make them out to be.

Really? Surpassed Wade?

C'mon dude.

can't believe we agree on something.... damn.... let me look out my window to see if a comet isn't headed towards earth..

but more shocking than that is how he said Boston has faded..

Liste, being 7-1 is great, but some fans are going overboard.. it is early, as well as we have played we are just 2.5 games up on boston, and they have played 3 more games than us.... faded? really?

Not going to argue that Melo is better than Wade, however, take a look at Wade's #'s and winning % without Shaq and Lebron. Not very impressive at all....

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:It is so funny to see people whine about Melo's fg% which is 44% right now.

Meanwhile:

The great Gallo is shooting 34% this year.
The great Lin is shooting below 35% this year.
The great Wilson Chandler is shooting 31% this year.

Melo is literally shooting just about 10% better than all the ex-Knick's and the "Gift".

please im begging you stop with the knicks vs former knicks crap. Lets focus on the good season we are having

Why should I?!?! We all know certain posters hate for Melo revolves around their lust for ex-knicks. Melo is shooting 44% and people are acting like he is shooting 35%. Eventually Melo will make more of his shots around the rim and his fg% will improve. And then people will find something else to complain about.

nah, this is what you do.. you bring up those guys every time you can..... melo is shooting 44% and that is not good enough.. I mean is that what you want from your so called franchise player? why such low standards, why not aim for 49% which deng is shooting, or 53% which lebron is shooting, he is getting paid more than both guys, and he is supposed to be the face of this franchise... why keep bringing up players whom you feel are inferior to him as the standard to which defend melo.. it is ridiculous on every level especially with the way you feel about former knicks...

We didn't give up Deng or Lebron for Melo we gave up 34% Gallo and 31% Chandler. Melo was the reason why 35% Linsanity ended. Now that the offseason is over and hypotheticals turn into reality and you can't brag about them its not a fair ball game anymore I see.

Melo is shooting 44%, but he is attacking the basket he isn't just shooting poor jumpshots. He gets a couple more calls when he is getting whacked and his fg% would sky rocket. With that said didn't really like the way he played offensively that much. We need to get back to the ball movement like the first few games. His defense on West was great though.

so again, as long as carmelo is shooting a better % than those guys, knick fans should be happy? if that works for you.. have at it.. but it makes absolutely no sense...... If you feel those guys are vastly inferior than it should not be a surprise, but when someone says that 44% is not good enough, pointing out what gallo, lin, etc shoots, is just a piss poor way to defend that point....

but you do see how what you said really makes no sense.... 35% linsanity.. I didn't know lin ws shooting that bad last year. unless you have some stats to back that up, what you are just doing is going out of a way to try to make a point that just isn't there..

Carmelo has surpassed Wade as a player, and will continue to be put up better numbers for the next 5 years. Yes, Wade has 2 rings and a Finals MVP and wil probably rank higher on the all time list of players. But he's putting up fringe all star numbers now while Anthony is in his prime. No way I take Wade over Melo for today or the future. I see Wade in street clothes once a week.

And as the Celtics have faded, Rondo just doesn't seem as valuabe now.

When your team wins the way we have, your best player's weaknesses just aren't as glaring as you make them out to be.

this is so over the top.. after less than 10 games..

carmelo has surpassed wade

the celtics have faded( this has to be the funniest thing I have heard yet))

melo's weaknesses are now hidden..

carmelo is MVP..

hey ignorance is bliss when you start off 7-1

I would love to read what they are saying on the memphis, bucks, and nets boards.....

I guess on the clippers board d'andre jordan has now surpassed Dwight.

And on the bucks boards, jennings has now surpassed nash...

Your post if severely flawed.

Comparing D'andre Jordan to Dwight Howard and Brandon Jennings to Steve Nash isn't the same as comparing Carmelo Anthony to Dwayne Wade. I've compared two perennial all stars while you're comparing young players to established stars. Try again.

When you look at Anthony and Wade, you're looking at two players who are all stars every year and have won gold metals. Why is my rational opinion about Anthony being a better player now than Wade so hard to believe? Is it because you're going by Wade's past of winning? I've already told you he will most likely finish as a better player when we look at these guys 10 years from now.

But Wade isn't the same player as he was, it's not even close. His injuries have taken a toll on him and have shortened his prime. And now Anthony has the good fortune of being on a team that puts him in the MVP race while Wade will never be in that race anymore.

And for the 10th time, I never said he's the MVP after 10 games. I've said this Knicks team and their potential success puts him in the conversation of the most valuable players in the league.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:It is so funny to see people whine about Melo's fg% which is 44% right now.

Meanwhile:

The great Gallo is shooting 34% this year.
The great Lin is shooting below 35% this year.
The great Wilson Chandler is shooting 31% this year.

Melo is literally shooting just about 10% better than all the ex-Knick's and the "Gift".

please im begging you stop with the knicks vs former knicks crap. Lets focus on the good season we are having

Why should I?!?! We all know certain posters hate for Melo revolves around their lust for ex-knicks. Melo is shooting 44% and people are acting like he is shooting 35%. Eventually Melo will make more of his shots around the rim and his fg% will improve. And then people will find something else to complain about.

nah, this is what you do.. you bring up those guys every time you can..... melo is shooting 44% and that is not good enough.. I mean is that what you want from your so called franchise player? why such low standards, why not aim for 49% which deng is shooting, or 53% which lebron is shooting, he is getting paid more than both guys, and he is supposed to be the face of this franchise... why keep bringing up players whom you feel are inferior to him as the standard to which defend melo.. it is ridiculous on every level especially with the way you feel about former knicks...

We didn't give up Deng or Lebron for Melo we gave up 34% Gallo and 31% Chandler. Melo was the reason why 35% Linsanity ended. Now that the offseason is over and hypotheticals turn into reality and you can't brag about them its not a fair ball game anymore I see.

Melo is shooting 44%, but he is attacking the basket he isn't just shooting poor jumpshots. He gets a couple more calls when he is getting whacked and his fg% would sky rocket. With that said didn't really like the way he played offensively that much. We need to get back to the ball movement like the first few games. His defense on West was great though.

so again, as long as carmelo is shooting a better % than those guys, knick fans should be happy? if that works for you.. have at it.. but it makes absolutely no sense...... If you feel those guys are vastly inferior than it should not be a surprise, but when someone says that 44% is not good enough, pointing out what gallo, lin, etc shoots, is just a piss poor way to defend that point....

but you do see how what you said really makes no sense.... 35% linsanity.. I didn't know lin ws shooting that bad last year. unless you have some stats to back that up, what you are just doing is going out of a way to try to make a point that just isn't there..

Carmelo has surpassed Wade as a player, and will continue to be put up better numbers for the next 5 years. Yes, Wade has 2 rings and a Finals MVP and wil probably rank higher on the all time list of players. But he's putting up fringe all star numbers now while Anthony is in his prime. No way I take Wade over Melo for today or the future. I see Wade in street clothes once a week.

And as the Celtics have faded, Rondo just doesn't seem as valuabe now.

When your team wins the way we have, your best player's weaknesses just aren't as glaring as you make them out to be.

this is so over the top.. after less than 10 games..

carmelo has surpassed wade

the celtics have faded( this has to be the funniest thing I have heard yet))

melo's weaknesses are now hidden..

carmelo is MVP..

hey ignorance is bliss when you start off 7-1

I would love to read what they are saying on the memphis, bucks, and nets boards.....

I guess on the clippers board d'andre jordan has now surpassed Dwight.

And on the bucks boards, jennings has now surpassed nash...

Your post if severely flawed.

Comparing D'andre Jordan to Dwight Howard and Brandon Jennings to Steve Nash isn't the same as comparing Carmelo Anthony to Dwayne Wade. I've compared two perennial all stars while you're comparing young players to established stars. Try again.

When you look at Anthony and Wade, you're looking at two players who are all stars every year and have won gold metals. Why is my rational opinion about Anthony being a better player now than Wade so hard to believe? Is it because you're going by Wade's past of winning? I've already told you he will most likely finish as a better player when we look at these guys 10 years from now.

But Wade isn't the same player as he was, it's not even close. His injuries have taken a toll on him and have shortened his prime. And now Anthony has the good fortune of being on a team that puts him in the MVP race while Wade will never be in that race anymore.

no, what you are doing is taking what is happening over the start of this season and running with it.. that is fine, but i will call it out.. if we looked at career and body of work, it really isn't close at all... And lets stop without the shaq and lebron.. for the record, shaq was pretty much nearing the end of his career, in that finals series, alonzo mourning played a bigger role than shaq did for the most part, and lebron came to play with wade, he left cleveland to come play with wade.... So really lets just stop with this... "without shaq and lebron".. wade has a great career resume and is just the better player.. not close..

now even with wades injuries, I still take him.. better defender and still a much more efficient player, and wade is a much better playmaker than carmelo.... wade with this team now would be a better fit, almost ideal... when shumpert comes back, I would sit ronnie Brick brewer,and heck may even sit felton and run shump and wade in the backcourt.. could you imagine that.. I would be nuts bro..... first of all, it would give us a great backcourt and one hell of a defensive backcourt.... heck you could even go kidd and wade.. the possibilities are great.... wade just makes you that much better on both ends...

ok let me stop dreaming...... jeez, i was getting carried away.. LOL

TheloniusMonk wrote:You can always tell when people are desperate to make a point. They dwell on the past rather than live in the present. It's the 2012-13 season. Many things have changed and it's a thing of beauty. Period.

IN reference to this conversation, what has changed in particular.... need clarification..

TheloniusMonk wrote:You can always tell when people are desperate to make a point. They dwell on the past rather than live in the present. It's the 2012-13 season. Many things have changed and it's a thing of beauty. Period.

This 2012-13 edition of the New York Knicks is like nothing that preceded it.

It ain't that kinda party.

misterearl wrote:Amen

TheloniusMonk wrote:You can always tell when people are desperate to make a point. They dwell on the past rather than live in the present. It's the 2012-13 season. Many things have changed and it's a thing of beauty. Period.

This 2012-13 edition of the New York Knicks is like nothing that preceded it.

It ain't that kinda party.

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Wade is not the player he was two/three years ago...He has slowed with multiple injuries...No way he carries a team like that today...

you keep saying carrying a team and then you scream that carmelo needed help from last year.. really there is just one guy now that can just carry a team.. that is lebron.. everyone else needs a little help, but with help some guys will just take their teams further.. wade is one of them..

The help that Wade received were two of the alltime greats. You think if Melo had the same type of help that Wade had, he wouldn't have taken his teams further?

NO, HE WOULDN'T Have, they would have, I don't think any of those guys would take a back seat to melo.. my honest opinion.. so would melo have gone further on a team led by those guys.. yes, but that gets back to my point about building a team with a better franchise player, and if melo is on that team he can help... sure..

my question is, will most carmelo fans be fine with this.. because it seems that winning is not enough, but it has to be done with "carmelo leading us"... and sorry, but leading and carmelo just don't seem to fit...

Of course its they, Wade didn't take his teams anywhere without Shaq and Lebron. But with them, they won a 'chip.

And who are these Ghost Posters who feel winning is not enough? I dont see it. Most are very happy with the start the team has gotten off to. I dont see anyone on this board that is a Melo fan first, and Knick fan second. Actually, you got it twisted. I see some posters who in spite of W's over the Heat and Spurs were quick to put a magnifying glass over what Melo didn't do right in those games.
I still see posters place unrealistic expectations on the backs of this team saying 'if we don't make it to the finals, then its been a disappointing year.' Yet, these same posters picked the Knicks to finish no higher than 3-4 in the conferenc. Go figure.

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Wade is not the player he was two/three years ago...He has slowed with multiple injuries...No way he carries a team like that today...

you keep saying carrying a team and then you scream that carmelo needed help from last year.. really there is just one guy now that can just carry a team.. that is lebron.. everyone else needs a little help, but with help some guys will just take their teams further.. wade is one of them..

The help that Wade received were two of the alltime greats. You think if Melo had the same type of help that Wade had, he wouldn't have taken his teams further?

NO, HE WOULDN'T Have, they would have, I don't think any of those guys would take a back seat to melo.. my honest opinion.. so would melo have gone further on a team led by those guys.. yes, but that gets back to my point about building a team with a better franchise player, and if melo is on that team he can help... sure..

my question is, will most carmelo fans be fine with this.. because it seems that winning is not enough, but it has to be done with "carmelo leading us"... and sorry, but leading and carmelo just don't seem to fit...

Of course its they, Wade didn't take his teams anywhere without Shaq and Lebron. But with them, they won a 'chip.

And who are these Ghost Posters who feel winning is not enough? I dont see it. Most are very happy with the start the team has gotten off to. I dont see anyone on this board that is a Melo fan first, and Knick fan second. Actually, you got it twisted. I see some posters who in spite of W's over the Heat and Spurs were quick to put a magnifying glass over what Melo didn't do right out in those games.
I still see posters place unrealistic expectations on the backs of this team saying 'if we don't make it to the finals, then its been a disappointing year.' Yet, these same posters picked the Knicks to finish no higher than 3-4 in the conferenc. Go figure.

well i see it, they attribute the knicks start to carmelo and the "domino effect" which we have very little evidence of that.

It just seems as if it is so hard for some to say the knicks are playing well as a team, but no, every single thing from popcorn sales to someone shooting well is attributed to carmelo...

just go take a look, there is a thread on raymond felton.. no one gives a damn, it is empty... there is also a thread on "positive only" knick comments.. not really that busy, mostly some comical answers all in fun... but you post a carmelo MVP/ny knicks thread and you get more responses defending carmelo as a mvp candidate than defending the knicks and their recent play...

but back to the point.. wade is a champion.. end of story.. guys come to play with wade because they felt they could win.. why has none of the elite players run to play with carmelo? maybe we should start asking that.. maybe carmelo has just been very unlucky, or just not good as some think he is.. either way, it is what it is.. I don't think anyone can fairly argue him being better than wade, I don't care who came to play with whom..

well i see it, they attribute the knicks start to carmelo and the "domino effect" which we have very little evidence of that.

It just seems as if it is so hard for some to say the knicks are playing well as a team, but no, every single thing from popcorn sales to someone shooting well is attributed to carmelo...

Okay, lets say that there are some posts that give him too much credit. Can you at least admit that there is a flip-side to these posts that refuse to give Melo any credit at all? Or at least go overboard and try to make his effect as minimal as possible?

just go take a look, there is a thread on raymond felton.. no one gives a damn, it is empty... there is also a thread on "positive only" knick comments.. not really that busy, mostly some comical answers all in fun... but you post a carmelo MVP/ny knicks thread and you get more responses defending carmelo as a mvp candidate than defending the knicks and their recent play...

Of course Melo threads will be longer because Melo is a hot-button topic. Think about it, you have openly admitted that you dont like Melo, yet, I bet if we take a closer look at every thread with Melo's name attached, you have just as many posts in those threads as anyone. No? I do aswell, of course, but you can't call anyone out when you are contributing to the problem.

but back to the point.. wade is a champion.. end of story.. guys come to play with wade because they felt they could win.. why has none of the elite players run to play with carmelo? maybe we should start asking that.. maybe carmelo has just been very unlucky, or just not good as some think he is.. either way, it is what it is.. I don't think anyone can fairly argue him being better than wade, I don't care who came to play with whom..

Despite winning chips with all time greats, at the end of the day Wade is a champion so I agree, its not an argument Melo would win despite the circumstances in Wade's favor. As far as not wanting to play with Melo, I recall Chris Paul wanting to join forces with him. Chandler took a look at the roster with Melo in tow and signed off on the deal.

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:Holfresh with Wade, the team wouldn't have needed a monster month from one player.

You'd have consistency throughout, and efficiency, and a naturally willing defender.

I'm glad Melo is here, but to say he's a better player than Wade is just so wrong.

I agree..... and I am also confused on how some people don't view wade as a scorer.. I hear them say carmelo is a GREAT scorer, and I think he is a Great STREAK scorer, but, lets go with great scorer for arguments sake... carmelo is a 24ppg career scorer.. wade is at 25ppg.... wade is not only a very good and willing defender on a nightly basis, he is also a fantastic scorer as well....

Hasn't Wade won at least 1 scoring title and come a close second a couple other times? What about All NBA Teams?