fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:You got to get to the playoffs in order to do something in it. And last time I checked, 31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46% shooting players in the playoffs don't grow on tree's.

Oh and you mean Andre Miller; the same Andre Miller that never made the playoffs before pairing up with Melo? Matters for your arguement certainly aren't helped when you consider the team had D-league caliber talent surrounding those 3 guys.

you keep swinging but missing. "31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46%" That was just the last year. Overall he is 24ppg, 7rpg, 42% during playoffs. Only advanced past first round once. ONCE.

BTW, Melo never got past first round until Chauncy shows up.

The aforementioned statline is much more indicative of Carmelo's play in the playoffs at this point in time than his career average.

Last year's stats are indicative of yet another first round exit.

Cool. I'll be here waiting for you to eat crow when he takes us to the 2nd round and beyond this year and in the future.

and when Amare and Felton kick ass you can tell us how it was all the Melo factor. Good stuff. Rock on. Dude couldnt stop Gallo, how's he gonna stop Pierce? or LBJ? God forbid Joe Johnson or Wince Carter.

And if we lose you will complain that Amare wasnt strong enough on the glass and we got pushed around in the post. I know the type well

Dude, Gallo shot 6-19 against the Nuggets this season. I don't know what planet you're living on but that is not an efficient offensive game. Hell that is 32% and you guys have the audacity to complain about Melo's offensive efficiency.

Marv wrote:our difference maker will not be carmelo.

our difference maker will be ar.

take the bunch that we're seeing win games now. add to it a guy who in his 1.5 years in the league has already had games, among others, of:

24pts-16rbs-4stls
20-15
10-14-3stls-4blks
20-8-4blks
17-8-3blks
15-10-3blks
17-13-3stls-2blks
15-11-3stls-2blks
12-8-2stls-8blks

I wish AR was playing like that--its not like he came into the league and has done jack like Mosgov who is 3-4 years older. He has done some very nice things--I just think this might not be the right place at the right time for him. But that is what we need. Gallo Chandler Fields and Williams give me what I need in terms of scoring from the wing--and maybe we can add a sixth man from the 2H position?? Just like last night--we know who the go to scorer is and we dont need a ball dominant low % player to disrupt that.

Melo2NYK wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:You got to get to the playoffs in order to do something in it. And last time I checked, 31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46% shooting players in the playoffs don't grow on tree's.

Oh and you mean Andre Miller; the same Andre Miller that never made the playoffs before pairing up with Melo? Matters for your arguement certainly aren't helped when you consider the team had D-league caliber talent surrounding those 3 guys.

you keep swinging but missing. "31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46%" That was just the last year. Overall he is 24ppg, 7rpg, 42% during playoffs. Only advanced past first round once. ONCE.

BTW, Melo never got past first round until Chauncy shows up.

The aforementioned statline is much more indicative of Carmelo's play in the playoffs at this point in time than his career average.

Last year's stats are indicative of yet another first round exit.

Cool. I'll be here waiting for you to eat crow when he takes us to the 2nd round and beyond this year and in the future.

and when Amare and Felton kick ass you can tell us how it was all the Melo factor. Good stuff. Rock on. Dude couldnt stop Gallo, how's he gonna stop Pierce? or LBJ? God forbid Joe Johnson or Wince Carter.

And if we lose you will complain that Amare wasnt strong enough on the glass and we got pushed around in the post. I know the type well

Dude, Gallo shot 6-19 against the Nuggets this season. I don't know what planet you're living on but that is not an efficient offensive game. Hell that is 32% and you guys have the audacity to complain about Melo's offensive efficiency.

hahaha, do it, bring up that game and completely compare Melo v Gallo efficiency.

Melo2NYK wrote:
It is not about how many points you put up but how you get those points. This is a major reason why teams like the Warriors have not been terribly successful in year's past. A guy like Melo changes the entire dynamic of an offensive game. He controls the game by wearing out opponent's by being a constant offensive threat and by getting to the free throw line. Things like that go a long way because it offers [b]greater control[/b] in dictating the tempo of the game, which is what really makes a successful team. Guys like Gallo and Chandler are just role players. Their efficiency is contigent upon how pourous the other teams defense is and how much our offense can capitalize on this. On a different note, I do want Nene as well.

Offensive efficiency doesn't measure how many points you get. It measures how you get those points.

just saying.

So Melo controls the tempo, ensures the offense will always be great and..... lays golden eggs also! Wow!

Your pretty funny... all comments about the Knicks, same thing with Denver. In 8 losses they scored 95, 101, 92, 113, 94, 83, 98, 89. Hey.. the Nuggets average score in losses is 95ppg EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE KNICKS.

You got nothin dude.

I only implied that the team's best player does not have to be a defensive juggernaut 24/7, 365 days of the year to be a contender.

There's your last 20 NBA champs. Know what they all have in common? All were voted ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAM.

So as we see, your wrong amigo. You DO indeed need your best player to be a great defensive player. That is if you want to win titles. If you want to just make the playoffs then by all means, lets trade Chandler, Gallo, Fields and AR for Melo right now and talk about our star power until we get bounced in the playoffs by a bigger tougher team. Personally I would rather do that with our home grown talent, or use my trade chips to get a great defensive bigman.

Maybe I can get lucky and Sam Bowie makes a comeback right man?

fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

how does BB work? please tell me. How did the Pistons with no stars beat a team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone? Why didnt Pippen, Barkley and Hakeem win a title?

Again... the word superstar. Tell me again what he's done to deserve that title? Oh right.. he's going to elevate his game once he comes to NY like Amare.

Just for the record.. this is exactly how Amare played last year, for the whole 2nd half.

There are 5 guys and 1 ball.

If we were talking about Bogut, who fills a NEED then your right. Gallo + Chandler would be worth it.

Just to clarify, Melo isnt Jordon.

Basketball is about balance and roles.

Exactly, and Melo fills a number of roles that are particular weaknesses of our team. He's capable of dominating from the perimeter. No one on our team can do that. He's capable of dominating in the 4th quarter. No one on our team has proven able to do that. He requires a double team. Only Amar'e is capable of doing that. Anyway you dice it, the guy improves our team. This whole argument of need vs talent has been had and decided already.

You're the guy that drafts Sam Bowie. We're the guys that draft Michael Jordan.

You're the guy that drafts Greg Oden. We're the guys that draft Kevin Durant.

You're the guy that drafts Darko Milicic. We're the guys that draft Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade.

History has shown that our rationale is sounder. Bring Melo to NY already!

history just showed you have no idea what your talking about. Knicks dont have a guy who can take over a game? Maybe you should try watching the Knicks before thinking Melo is a good fit here because its pretty obvious you dont.

Your the guy that thinks Isiah Thomas was a good. Lets just keep getting more and more and more talent, regardless of fit or skills or chemistry.

I'm the guy who trades for Jermaine Oneil. Your the guy who trades for Vince Carter.
I'm the guy who trades for Artest, Brad Miller and Ron Mercer. Your the guy who trades for Jalen Rose.
I'm the guy who trades for Chris Webber. Your the guy who trades for Mitch Richmond.

I know your type and history has shown your rationale fails time and time again.

I'm the guy that understands there are 5 guys and one ball. I'm the guy who understands why the Lakers and Celtics win. Your the guy who thinks it was all Kobe.

I'm the guy who understands why a team is great. Your the guy who watches sportscenter and thinks they know.

You want to just make stuff up its really not that hard.

Let's get something straight, none of what you said is remotely credible. Your entire argument is right up the alley of the morons who drafted based on need. I don't need Carmelo Anthony so I'll get Darko Milicic because he fills a need. I don't need Caron Butler so I'll trade for Kwame Brown because he fills a need. It is simply flawed logic that has destroyed opportunities for so many teams. You can sit around here responding based on pride but you've done little in the way of offering cold hard facts. Opinions don't mean very much to me.

fishmike wrote:Lets go through them again... Kobe, Kobe, KG, Duncan, Shaq, Duncan, Detroit (whole freakin team), Duncan, Shaq/Kobe x 3, Duncan, Jordan/Pippen x3, Hakeem x2, Jordan/Pippen x3

There's your last 20 NBA champs. Know what they all have in common? All were voted ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAM.

So as we see, your wrong amigo. You DO indeed need your best player to be a great defensive player. That is if you want to win titles. If you want to just make the playoffs then by all means, lets trade Chandler, Gallo, Fields and AR for Melo right now and talk about our star power until we get bounced in the playoffs by a bigger tougher team. Personally I would rather do that with our home grown talent, or use my trade chips to get a great defensive bigman.

Maybe I can get lucky and Sam Bowie makes a comeback right man?

Dude does kinda have a point about the whole defense thing...

If Melo does get here neither him, Amare or MDA are known for their defense. Their is a chance that come playoff time Amare and Melo step up their defense but to me defense is a team thing and if one of your highest paid, best players doesn't commit to defense during the regular season because hey it's the regular season I don't see that having a positive effect on the team

I firmly believe Melo can be a great defender when he puts his mind to it.

The fact that I have to include "when he puts his mind to it" kinda disturbs me. Scottie and Michael were bulldogs every game on D.

I do think that Melo2 has a point about straight talent trumping needs..especially when drafting.

Not sure the same applies when signing a FA with cap considerations.

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I have a question.. would the miami heat be better with lebron, Bogut and ginobili, rather than lebron wade and bosh?

i would dare to say that the heat would be better with lebron, Bogut and manu.. more balance, different skillsets... Yet we can say that wade is better than both bogut and manu and for that matter, bosh is better than bogut... so what gives?

Again, it is about finding that right balance..... Now I am not saying gallo and chandler are bogut and manu, but it is not out of reach.. did anyone ever think manu and bogut would be this good at this point in their careers.. especially manu?

I dont think so. Lebron and Wade can carry a team to the playoffs by themselves. Guys are not going to stay healthy for 82 games every season.

I take Wade and Bosh over the likes of Bogut and Ginobli all day every day.

WELL right now wade is like a second option, and bosh is a 3rd option.. bogut is a better player as a third option than bosh is, because bogut acutally hits the boards and plays physical... manu is the ultimate on and off the ball player.. something wade and lebron have trouble doing... playing off the ball.. again, i bet a team of lebron, manu and bogut would be more balance, easier to build around and just better.. again, you can't always look at individual players vs one another, but how they fit in that team concept...

Melo2NYK wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

how does BB work? please tell me. How did the Pistons with no stars beat a team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone? Why didnt Pippen, Barkley and Hakeem win a title?

Again... the word superstar. Tell me again what he's done to deserve that title? Oh right.. he's going to elevate his game once he comes to NY like Amare.

Just for the record.. this is exactly how Amare played last year, for the whole 2nd half.

There are 5 guys and 1 ball.

If we were talking about Bogut, who fills a NEED then your right. Gallo + Chandler would be worth it.

Just to clarify, Melo isnt Jordon.

Basketball is about balance and roles.

Exactly, and Melo fills a number of roles that are particular weaknesses of our team. He's capable of dominating from the perimeter. No one on our team can do that. He's capable of dominating in the 4th quarter. No one on our team has proven able to do that. He requires a double team. Only Amar'e is capable of doing that. Anyway you dice it, the guy improves our team. This whole argument of need vs talent has been had and decided already.

You're the guy that drafts Sam Bowie. We're the guys that draft Michael Jordan.

You're the guy that drafts Greg Oden. We're the guys that draft Kevin Durant.

You're the guy that drafts Darko Milicic. We're the guys that draft Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade.

History has shown that our rationale is sounder. Bring Melo to NY already!

history just showed you have no idea what your talking about. Knicks dont have a guy who can take over a game? Maybe you should try watching the Knicks before thinking Melo is a good fit here because its pretty obvious you dont.

Your the guy that thinks Isiah Thomas was a good. Lets just keep getting more and more and more talent, regardless of fit or skills or chemistry.

I'm the guy who trades for Jermaine Oneil. Your the guy who trades for Vince Carter.
I'm the guy who trades for Artest, Brad Miller and Ron Mercer. Your the guy who trades for Jalen Rose.
I'm the guy who trades for Chris Webber. Your the guy who trades for Mitch Richmond.

I know your type and history has shown your rationale fails time and time again.

I'm the guy that understands there are 5 guys and one ball. I'm the guy who understands why the Lakers and Celtics win. Your the guy who thinks it was all Kobe.

I'm the guy who understands why a team is great. Your the guy who watches sportscenter and thinks they know.

You want to just make stuff up its really not that hard.

Let's get something straight, none of what you said is remotely credible. Your entire argument is right up the alley of the morons who drafted based on need. I don't need Carmelo Anthony so I'll get Darko Milicic because he fills a need. I don't need Caron Butler so I'll trade for Kwame Brown because he fills a need. It is simply flawed logic that has destroyed opportunities for so many teams. You can sit around here responding based on pride but you've done little in the way of offering cold hard facts. Opinions don't mean very much to me.

Your whole arguement is facts based soley on your opinions, which means equally nothing to me. Every arguement you have made has more holes than a sponge.

The draft has nothing to do with this arguement, to bring it up is to quote you moronic. We are talking about how to improve and established team. Your Isiah Thomas. More talent must = more wins. For someone that claims to have played ANY sport your showing you know very little.

Hey... Melo is better than Bosh right? I think he is. I guess Melo would make the Heat better also? MElo is better than Garnett who is old and past his prime right? Would making that trade improve the Celtics? Melo is better than Andrew BYnum right? Would he improve the Lakers?

Idiotic.

Here's a suggestion:

Maybe you should have just posted you really are a Melo fan and want to see him be a Knick. I could understand that. Guy's a good player, if you want to see him everynight and your a Knick fan I can understand.

Instead you try to make up some garbage arguements based on nothing that Melo is going to elevate the Knicks to an elite team, when there is ZERO ZILCH history in this league that supports any of your bogus claims.

Lets get something straight. Your outta gas amigo, but this was fun.

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I have a question.. would the miami heat be better with lebron, Bogut and ginobili, rather than lebron wade and bosh?

i would dare to say that the heat would be better with lebron, Bogut and manu.. more balance, different skillsets... Yet we can say that wade is better than both bogut and manu and for that matter, bosh is better than bogut... so what gives?

Again, it is about finding that right balance..... Now I am not saying gallo and chandler are bogut and manu, but it is not out of reach.. did anyone ever think manu and bogut would be this good at this point in their careers.. especially manu?

I dont think so. Lebron and Wade can carry a team to the playoffs by themselves. Guys are not going to stay healthy for 82 games every season.

I take Wade and Bosh over the likes of Bogut and Ginobli all day every day.

WELL right now wade is like a second option, and bosh is a 3rd option.. bogut is a better player as a third option than bosh is, because bogut acutally hits the boards and plays physical... manu is the ultimate on and off the ball player.. something wade and lebron have trouble doing... playing off the ball.. again, i bet a team of lebron, manu and bogut would be more balance, easier to build around and just better.. again, you can't always look at individual players vs one another, but how they fit in that team concept...

Im looking at this from a talent point of view. You can get a decent center for the MLE is they needed too. Remember Wade and Lebron are going to dominate the ball and arent going to be throwing the ball in the post anytime soon.

Also Bogut has ZERO range on his jumper. So you have him eating up cap and not helping their spacing issue. Plus Bogut is injury prone. Not a good combination for a thin team. Bosh is the most ideal fit because he doesn't mind being 3rd fiddle and he can hit the jumper from all over the court.

fishmike wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:Yeah and Kevin Durant had a "-" value during the ENTIRE 2008-2009 season. I suppose the Thunder should have dealt him when they had the chance. Guess they are now stuck just being one of the better teams out West with the ability to contend in the near future.

Yea they should have... great post man. Really had to dig deep into 82games to find that one. They should have traded the whole team because they were all a "-"

Lets try to find something even more unrealated and obscure to further weaken your arguements which are nothing more than your opinions.

Since it is difficult for you to understand the moral of a story, I guess I'll explain it to you like I would a child. In short "+/-" doesn't mean ****. Kevin Durant has been one of the best players in the league for sometime now and he had a "-" value for an entire season. Clearly that statistic alone can not determine the full contributions of a player to a game.