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jbeachboy
Posts: 20253 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/22/2015 Member: #6050 |
6/9/2015 8:00 PM
cauley stein is a weak rebounder for 7 footer
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martin
Posts: 76510 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
6/9/2015 8:29 PM
nixluva wrote:jbeachboy wrote:cauley stein is a weak rebounder for 7 footer That would never be my response. Monroe is barely an adequate backup on a team that is going far. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Willie-Cauley-Stein-6441/stats/ WCS had some very good teammates who were also rebounding. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
6/9/2015 8:44 PM
martin wrote:nixluva wrote:jbeachboy wrote:cauley stein is a weak rebounder for 7 footer Perhaps my response is a bit too cynical. I just think the plan is to let WCS be the Free Safety in the Defense and make sure to have another strong rebounder in the lineup behind him. I actually think Monroe is going to surprise people with how much better he can be in the right system. Once they got rid of Josh Smith, Monroe performed better. We could do a lot worse than what Monroe was producing over that time before he got injured.
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jbeachboy
Posts: 20253 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/22/2015 Member: #6050 |
6/10/2015 8:47 PM
it would feel weird drafting stein when mudiay and winslow are still available
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WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5843 |
6/10/2015 9:00 PM
codeunknown wrote:I think Mcgee is a reasonable comparison. Not putting undue weight on some physical attributes and correlating with the slope of in game improvement is key here. Actually though about the same thing recently. Never saw McGee in college, though. I actually think our old Knicks buddy Jeffries is a less athletic a slightly smaller version of Stein, and he looked a lot smoother on offense. Sorry for the quality on the video...not my fault- looks like it came from VHS recordings. EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
6/10/2015 9:03 PM
jbeachboy wrote:it would feel weird drafting stein when mudiay and winslow are still available I know it feels weird but it's the right move. WCS is that rare defensive center who can defend multiple positions and help defend at a high level. He loves doing it and understands how to properly help and recover. People really underestimate how big that is. He's not Javale McGee. McGee is actually not a very smart defender. WCS is a defensive genius compared to him. WCS would help this team be a playoff contender every year. That's the kind of impact he can have. |
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jbeachboy
Posts: 20253 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/22/2015 Member: #6050 |
6/10/2015 9:26 PM
if they drafted stein, who would you get in free agency?
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codeunknown
Posts: 22615 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 7/14/2004 Member: #704 |
6/10/2015 9:26 PM
Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
6/10/2015 9:49 PM
codeunknown wrote:Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument. I posted an article where a guy did research on WCS exact impact on D taking into account who he played with and he was the best defender on Kentucky. Teams scored 82 PPP with him on the floor and 90 PPP with him off the floor. WCS also regularly guarded the other teams best player and he was the #1 help defender. He shut down PnR so well teams often gave up trying to run it. If you don't really know what the truth is about WCS defense you shouldn't be posting about what you don't know. Anyone with 2 good eyes can see he's an elite defender. |
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codeunknown
Posts: 22615 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 7/14/2004 Member: #704 |
6/10/2015 10:12 PM LAST EDITED: 6/10/2015 10:14 PM
nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument. Wrong again. Your interpretation of both statistics and what I'm saying is extremely poor. Isolation-plus-minus stats are riddled with error and I've detailed the reasons before, even if you couldn't understand them. Repeating these numbers is inane and doesn't address either the difficulty in quantifying impact, nor the relative advantages/disadvantages compared to defensive rating, which is less controlled for competition and less distorted by starter/bench artifact. WCS is a good defensive player, but your estimation of his ability as a unique force is bizarre. It's obviously important to look at his relative worth compared to players of similar roles and physical attributes. And the data is not there to support he'll be better than McGee. If you're going optimistically on workout videos, then you may end up very disappointed. Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
6/10/2015 11:16 PM
codeunknown wrote:nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument. Admitted it may be hard to quantify with a stat but it's not an area of dispute among any who have seen WCS play. He's not McGee in terms of his understanding of how to play team defense nor his speed and agility on the perimeter. There aren't a lot of 7'ers with WCS's athletic ability and agility who also know how to apply those gifts on the defensive end. If you've ever listened to WCS talk about playing D you'd know he has a very good understanding of defensive concepts and isn't just running around out there. McGee is known for being a Bonehead and not a smart defender. |
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codeunknown
Posts: 22615 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 7/14/2004 Member: #704 |
6/10/2015 11:35 PM
nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument. Fair enough, lets check a couple of years from now and see how it unfolds. I'll wager that Stein's impact will be equal to or lower than Mcgee. Either way, it should be interesting. Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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blkexec
Posts: 28347 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 9/3/2004 Member: #748 |
6/11/2015 1:46 AM
codeunknown wrote:nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument. Wow.....even steins bust potential is higher than mcgee....stein at least has defensive IQ. Outside of that.....sure they both block shots and are limited offensively. Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland.
The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
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codeunknown
Posts: 22615 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 7/14/2004 Member: #704 |
6/11/2015 1:47 AM
blkexec wrote:codeunknown wrote:nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:nixluva wrote:codeunknown wrote:Nerlens Noel had a better defensive rating than Stein by 10 pts per 100 possessions in year 1 on the same team, confounders notwithstanding. Who's the bigger genius? Steins defensive rating over college seasons 1 and 2 was 91, 11 less than McGee at college season 1. Stein is at ~80 in year 3, while Trey Lyles is at 86, and Towns at 78: lots of shared minutes, who's really helping who here? Not buying the genius argument. I guess we disagree on Stein's bust potential. Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
6/11/2015 3:13 AM
I think the number 1 flaw that we will see with Stein is reaction time. When he receives the ball he thinks about it. The NBA is a MUCH faster game than even college where he just did not have brain patterns to react other than dunks or called defensive sets. Notice when he receives the ball--he simply has no reaction. Defenders converge and he takes a bad shot forces a bad pass or turns it over. There is two sides of the ball and both count. If you are deficient in one you cant take plays off like WCS has for 3 straight years. He doesnt make up for it with elite rebounding. Rather he is a porous rebounder for a defense first guy. It's a tribute to him that he seems to be improving his shot but at the same time we need to see game reaction and execution. You're making a bigt bet on WCS at 4. You are betting a great deal into a player with poor reaction time a man who looses focus and a player that over 3 full years never showed that he could be much of a help on the offense. There is two reasons why Kentucky lost in the final four---#1 WCS flopped big time and the coach didnt cut down the rotation. Javale Mcgee? Maybe I dont know--but like Walt said find just 1 raw man in the draft over the last 15 years taken at the top 10 who went on to successful NBA careers--just one.
RIP Crushalot😞
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