iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

Preach brotha!

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

how does BB work? please tell me. How did the Pistons with no stars beat a team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone? Why didnt Pippen, Barkley and Hakeem win a title?

Again... the word superstar. Tell me again what he's done to deserve that title? Oh right.. he's going to elevate his game once he comes to NY like Amare.

Just for the record.. this is exactly how Amare played last year, for the whole 2nd half.

There are 5 guys and 1 ball.

If we were talking about Bogut, who fills a NEED then your right. Gallo + Chandler would be worth it.

Just to clarify, Melo isnt Jordon.

Basketball is about balance and roles.

Exactly, and Melo fills a number of roles that are particular weaknesses of our team. He's capable of dominating from the perimeter. No one on our team can do that. He's capable of dominating in the 4th quarter. No one on our team has proven able to do that. He requires a double team. Only Amar'e is capable of doing that. Anyway you dice it, the guy improves our team. This whole argument of need vs talent has been had and decided already.

You're the guy that drafts Sam Bowie. We're the guys that draft Michael Jordan.

You're the guy that drafts Greg Oden. We're the guys that draft Kevin Durant.

You're the guy that drafts Darko Milicic. We're the guys that draft Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade.

History has shown that our rationale is sounder. Bring Melo to NY already!

FistOfOakley wrote:

cheers wrote:it is not like gallo makes a lot of 3s for it to make a difference at the 3 point line with melo. when taken into account that melo makes up for his lack of 3 points made with a ton of shots made within the 3 point line.

it's not about raw point total. gallo's man is going to be a step or two closer than where melo's man would be and that could be the difference between amar'e making the shot or turning the ball over, or missing it.

Dude, Melo regularly commands a double- if not triple- team. Gallo has only recently started receiving tight man-on-man coverage. There is no comparison between the effectiveness of the two.

Melo2NYK wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

how does BB work? please tell me. How did the Pistons with no stars beat a team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone? Why didnt Pippen, Barkley and Hakeem win a title?

Again... the word superstar. Tell me again what he's done to deserve that title? Oh right.. he's going to elevate his game once he comes to NY like Amare.

Just for the record.. this is exactly how Amare played last year, for the whole 2nd half.

There are 5 guys and 1 ball.

If we were talking about Bogut, who fills a NEED then your right. Gallo + Chandler would be worth it.

Just to clarify, Melo isnt Jordon.

Basketball is about balance and roles.

Exactly, and Melo fills a number of roles that are particular weaknesses of our team. He's capable of dominating from the perimeter. No one on our team can do that. He's capable of dominating in the 4th quarter. No one on our team has proven able to do that. He requires a double team. Only Amar'e is capable of doing that. Anyway you dice it, the guy improves our team. This whole argument of need vs talent has been had and decided already.

You're the guy that drafts Sam Bowie. We're the guys that draft Michael Jordan.

You're the guy that drafts Greg Oden. We're the guys that draft Kevin Durant.

You're the guy that drafts Darko Milicic. We're the guys that draft Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade.

History has shown that our rationale is sounder. Bring Melo to NY already!

Your the guy that thinks Isiah Thomas was a good. Lets just keep getting more and more and more talent, regardless of fit or skills or chemistry.

I'm the guy who trades for Jermaine Oneil. Your the guy who trades for Vince Carter.
I'm the guy who trades for Artest, Brad Miller and Ron Mercer. Your the guy who trades for Jalen Rose.
I'm the guy who trades for Chris Webber. Your the guy who trades for Mitch Richmond.

I know your type and history has shown your rationale fails time and time again.

I'm the guy that understands there are 5 guys and one ball. I'm the guy who understands why the Lakers and Celtics win. Your the guy who thinks it was all Kobe.

I'm the guy who understands why a team is great. Your the guy who watches sportscenter and thinks they know.

You want to just make stuff up its really not that hard.

Melo2NYK wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:we're currently 4th in the NBA in offensive efficiency. we can't really get that much better than how we're doing but then again we've played some fairly bad defensive teams. after this month if we're still top 8 then i don't see a humongous need to grab Melo.

you also have to take into account that assuming we don't trade fields, he would take Gallo's spot in the lineup and Melo is not a good 3pt shooter and neither is Fields. Felton has been good and Chandler has been 'alright' from 3 but it's not inconceivable that we become a worse offensive team after getting Melo.

imo, we'd be better off doing a smaller deal for nene.

It is not about how many points you put up but how you get those points. This is a major reason why teams like the Warriors have not been terribly successful in year's past. A guy like Melo changes the entire dynamic of an offensive game. He controls the game by wearing out opponent's by being a constant offensive threat and by getting to the free throw line. Things like that go a long way because it offers [b]greater control[/b] in dictating the tempo of the game, which is what really makes a successful team. Guys like Gallo and Chandler are just role players. Their efficiency is contigent upon how pourous the other teams defense is and how much our offense can capitalize on this. On a different note, I do want Nene as well.

Once again your arguements for Melo are not compelling. Your selling ice makers and we are living in Alaska.

go tell me how Melo is going to lock down guys like Bargani, Roy, Beasley, Kevin Martin, Kevin Love, etc etc. Oh thats right. You cant, because Melo doesnt really like to defend too much. Takes too much energy from his domination on the other side.

I say defense and rebounding are important. You say I would draft Sam Bowie over Michael Jordon.

Sorry. I like Melo, he's a good player. Nothing against him. He's not what you sell him as though. Never has been.

And actually it **IS** how many points you score and NOT how you score them. Last I checked they used the total points scored from each team to determine who wins the game. Maybe I'm wrong?

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:You got to get to the playoffs in order to do something in it. And last time I checked, 31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46% shooting players in the playoffs don't grow on tree's.

Oh and you mean Andre Miller; the same Andre Miller that never made the playoffs before pairing up with Melo? Matters for your arguement certainly aren't helped when you consider the team had D-league caliber talent surrounding those 3 guys.

you keep swinging but missing. "31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46%" That was just the last year. Overall he is 24ppg, 7rpg, 42% during playoffs. Only advanced past first round once. ONCE.

BTW, Melo never got past first round until Chauncy shows up.

The aforementioned statline is much more indicative of Carmelo's play in the playoffs at this point in time than his career average.

Last year's stats are indicative of yet another first round exit.

nixluva wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo + Amare = top 4 team in the EAST.

You saying this cuz you think we'll be even better scoring the ball? Cuz you can't be saying it based on any improvement on Defense! Why exactly would we be top 4 in the East after adding Melo? We don't lose because we can't score against teams, even the good teams can't stop us from scoring! We lose due to not having enough D.

IMO the only aspect that Melo helps in is end of game situations where you need an edge to get that game winning basket. That's it!!! Outside of that specific situation, I don't think he helps much at all. Unless you assume that all the top teams will be able to stop us from scoring, which I haven't seen any evidence of that being the case. I can understand if that is your premise, but that is the only one which makes sense to me.

I think it is fairly evident that we actually lose when we can't score against teams. In the games we have won, we have averaged about 114 ppg. In the games we have lost, we have averaged 99.5ppg. That is a 14.5 ppg differential.

Just to put things into perspective, the league average is a little less than a 100ppg for each team. That means that a team scores about 25ppg per quarter. 14.5 ppg is about 2/3 of the points a team would score in a quarter. That is a huge difference. A guy like Melo would prevent our offense from ever stalling that bad ever again, against any team.

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:You got to get to the playoffs in order to do something in it. And last time I checked, 31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46% shooting players in the playoffs don't grow on tree's.

Oh and you mean Andre Miller; the same Andre Miller that never made the playoffs before pairing up with Melo? Matters for your arguement certainly aren't helped when you consider the team had D-league caliber talent surrounding those 3 guys.

you keep swinging but missing. "31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46%" That was just the last year. Overall he is 24ppg, 7rpg, 42% during playoffs. Only advanced past first round once. ONCE.

BTW, Melo never got past first round until Chauncy shows up.

The aforementioned statline is much more indicative of Carmelo's play in the playoffs at this point in time than his career average.

Last year's stats are indicative of yet another first round exit.

Cool. I'll be here waiting for you to eat crow when he takes us to the 2nd round and beyond this year and in the future.

And if we lose you will complain that Amare wasnt strong enough on the glass and we got pushed around in the post. I know the type well

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:You got to get to the playoffs in order to do something in it. And last time I checked, 31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46% shooting players in the playoffs don't grow on tree's.

Oh and you mean Andre Miller; the same Andre Miller that never made the playoffs before pairing up with Melo? Matters for your arguement certainly aren't helped when you consider the team had D-league caliber talent surrounding those 3 guys.

you keep swinging but missing. "31ppg, 9rpg, 3apg and 2spg on 46%" That was just the last year. Overall he is 24ppg, 7rpg, 42% during playoffs. Only advanced past first round once. ONCE.

BTW, Melo never got past first round until Chauncy shows up.

The aforementioned statline is much more indicative of Carmelo's play in the playoffs at this point in time than his career average.

Last year's stats are indicative of yet another first round exit.

Cool. I'll be here waiting for you to eat crow when he takes us to the 2nd round and beyond this year and in the future.

Let's be clear: Adding Melo for the right price to a team that already has Amare and Felton, etc should indeed get to the second round. that's not my point or the point of what we are discussing with Melo.

Generally speaking, Melo has not proven anything in the playoffs - flash in the pan one year and lots of first round exits. His conference is a tough one and his teams have been decimated with untimely injuries for sure, but Melo has also not done enough in my mind to qualify him as an elite all-around player, no way no how. He just doesn't play defense enough. He may be a top 10 player offensively, but is he also the right mix of player for the Knicks for the cap space and assets that we would need to get him?

That's the argument and the big picture.