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Instead of Bashing Marbury and The Knicks, Why Not Simply Take A Vacation?
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Bippity10
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8/1/2007  7:39 PM
Posted by misterearl:

That's an eight man core of yoots, all 27 and under

the fix is in

Once again explaining to me that we have guys under 27. This is why it's difficult to discuss anything, you keep going back to the same point. A point that we both agree on. The question is, Isiah dedicated to this core, or will he tear it apart like he has the last 2? My guess is that if his job is on the line, say goodbye to anyone and everyone under 27. That's life in NY.
I just hope that people will like me
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loweyecue
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8/1/2007  7:41 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by loweyecue:

Why do people keep bringing up Layden when talking about Isiah??

1. We were in a mess.
2. We hired Isiah to get us out of the mess.
3. We paid mucho dollars to Isiah to get us out of the mess.
4. Isiah got a 25 win team
5. Isiah sold our future prospects to trade for career losers who "Contributed" to make us a 33 win team.(Yeah Beeeeeeg deal!!!)
6. Isiah made sure we would be over the cap with no prospects for another 4-5 years.
6. In any other industry professionals like thet don't get to see the light of the day.

Guys he was brought here to get us OUT of the whole not dig a deeper one. What is so hard to understand?

So when he took over was there somehow now a magic pixie dust that he was supposed to spread over the team to make it instantly a winner? I remember the predictions were 3-5 years for him to fix the mess Layden left. How about the mandate from Dolan that he had to deal with for the 1st season and a half? He wasn't allowed to come in and just clean house. Even if he did there's no guarantee that this would've meant a shorter path to building a contender.

At some point we had to expect that this team was gonna have to go thru something drastic to fix the mess we had. Isiah has completed 3.5 seasons here and as of right now the team is better than it's been in a long time in terms of the personnel we have and the youth we've added. It's not perfect, but it's a good deal better than what we had at the start. You can win with this team and you can continue to build on this team. We had nothing before and now we at least have a team that can be in the mix.


And what mix is that again? The bottom of the league mix?
No one said anything about magic fixes so give the stupid sarcasm a rest.

His job was to make the team better, and he knew this was an intensely scrutinized marquee franchise that he was taking charge of. So far he has totally failed to deliver any measurable improvemnet and getting a bunch of overrated me-first chuck happy no defense losers on the same payroll does not put us in any mix. There is absolutely no evidence that this roster can even form a semblance of a TEAM.

Just read the other posts here, his life time acheivement as Knick GM is 0.393...you can call it progress if you like I want his retarded rear end off my team. The only real thing to be said in his defence is he counted on Houston being healthy and he lucked out on that one. Don't pretend this guy had a plan or that we are "fixing" something. We are just getting into a bigger hole with each "blockbuster" trade.

My opinion is fairly clear, the guy had 4 years to deliver and has shown no evidence that he can. The remarkable progress you delude yourselves with is going from 25 wins to three seasons of 33, 23, 33 wins and that may be quite enough for some people including Dolan. I feel otherwise. When you judge people's performance in sports just count the W's.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
misterearl
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8/1/2007  7:45 PM
Nope bip, that is simply the core that I would stick with

If Isiah has demonstrated anything it is his penchant for being aggressive and unpredictible. Tim Thomas not working as expected?

See ya

Channing Frye developing too slowly?

Buh-bye

I don't have a problem with him running up his cel bill to send a message that if you don't work, you will be gone.

once a knick always a knick
loweyecue
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8/1/2007  7:46 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>6. Isiah made sure we would be over the cap with no prospects for another 4-5 years.

loweyecue - No prospects?

Not one?

sheesh

No prospects of getting under the cap, do you see any?



[Edited by - misterearl on 08-01-2007 7:26 PM]

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
arkrud
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8/1/2007  10:39 PM
Posted by misterearl:

arkrud - it wasn't all that disturbing to watch the yoots in Las Vegas

why not wait until December before throwing dirt on this revamped roster and burying them?

I respectfully disagree that the "value" of this roster is not close to zero as you claim

If you state they are "young and have a ways to go", what is the point of the "woe is us" nattering, naysaying, negativity before the maturation process even starts?

sheesh

oh yeah I almost forgot

Wilson Chandler rocks the house

The guys who played in Las Vegas is my team. I want to see ONLY them on the Knick roster.
Did you read my post? Looks like you are reading only you own posts man...
Which effort do you see from Eddy, Zack, marbs? Selling shoes and making clown on TV shows? Going on vacation with wife or better ho...? Romming around with hoops family?






"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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8/1/2007  10:43 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>"true team" is a group of players ready to give it all on the court, stay behind each other and dedicate themselfs complitely to the game and to the club.

Robinson: I'm working out at the practice facility still. I'm staying here in New York -- I'm not going home to see my friends and family. I told them that I am trying to do my best in the NBA now and go down in history, so nothing against my family, but right now I'm hungry. I want to win, I want to go to the playoffs, and I want to win a championship. That is my goal, so now I am not going to let anything get in my way. So I am just working out and conditioning. I am watching a lot of film. I'm watching a lot of Steve Nash and other great point guards in the NBA and am just trying to get it done.

Richardson: This season is all about winning. This summer is all about getting better. I might take some time to go chill for a bit somewhere right before camp starts, but I'm focusing on getting better.

Question: You've got another guy from DePaul on the team now that Wilson Chandler was drafted in the first round. How do you feel about having a fellow Blue Demon on the Knicks?

Richardson: It's cool! I'm thrilled to have a guy with the same background and history and pride as myself. I'm looking forward to working with him.

Question: What are your thoughts on the other draft pick, Demetris Nichols?

Richardson: I actually know Demetris. Last summer, he came and worked out in Chicago. A year before they come out for the draft, a lot of guys come to my gym and work out there to train. I knew the kid could play, and was thrilled when we got him.

Question: The Knicks went undefeated in NBA Summer League. What was it like watching Nate Robinson and Renaldo Balkman leading the club like that?

Richardson: I was happy, and was really proud of them. They should have gone undefeated because they played really well. They deserved it. I was really happy to see Renaldo shut down (Kevin) Durant with all the hype he has. He did a real good job.


I have no problems with Nate and Q.
They may have not enough health or brain but they have heart and can be at "true team"
But they can do only as much... but I will take it over Steph/Eddy/JJ/LL2/Zack boolsheet personalities.




[Edited by - arkrud on 08-01-2007 10:46 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
misterearl
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8/2/2007  8:40 AM
loweyecue - allow me to break the news to you

The New York basketball franchise has operated beyond the salary standards of the NBA since the beginning of time. The free-spending corporate ownership of Gulf+Western opened the checkbook to free agents and journeymen alike but that is not where it started.

It may surprise you to learn that the NBA first had a salary cap in 1946-47, its first season. Word has it that Harry Gallatin was criticized for blowing the Knicks cap to pieces with his $4000 salary in 1952 and Ernie Vandeweghe was a daily target of the press in 1953 for making over $2700.

When the "modern" NBA salary cap began in 1984-85, at $3.6 million, Bernard King was leading the league in scoring and Patrick was still a senior at Georgetown, but the Knicks has lured the likes of Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Paul Westphal in hopes of staying relevant in the competitive entertainment market that is New York. The Knicks got busted for tampering with George McGinnis.

That practice of spending top dollar was continued by Dave Checketts and passed to his buddy Ute Scott Layden in such memorable signings that will go unmentioned here for sake of space.

The point being, the Knicks will NEVER operate under the salary cap.

Never have.

It ain't that kinda party

[Edited by - misterearl on 08-02-2007 08:56 AM]
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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8/2/2007  8:52 AM
One More For The Reading Impaired

(basketball jones this is more than 5 lines so please scroll down)

arkrud - for the second time... here are my eight

now pay attention

Collins - at 6'6 a steady defensive presense in the backcourt

Chandler - by January people will be screaming, "I told you so" after he blocks a shot, takes it the length of the floor and dunks with ease

Nichols - improved from outside every year at Syracuse, at 6'8 has above superior lateral quickness to be an excellent defender

Lee - the people's choice

Curry - I don't care how many ways you insist on insulting him, at 24 years old he is still finding his voice ... and I sincerely hope that he and his family will recover emotionally from the trauma of having their home invaded

Morris - can play two positions up front, played for Tubby and has nice footwork

Balkman - "...rasta no pickpocket", then again.. sometimes he is

Zach Randolph - 23 and 10 is no mirage
once a knick always a knick
arkrud
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8/2/2007  9:21 AM
Posted by misterearl:

One More For The Reading Impaired

(basketball jones this is more than 5 lines so please scroll down)

arkrud - for the second time... here are my eight

now pay attention

Collins - at 6'6 a steady defensive presense in the backcourt

Chandler - by January people will be screaming, "I told you so" after he blocks a shot, takes it the length of the floor and dunks with ease

Nichols - improved from outside every year at Syracuse, at 6'8 has above superior lateral quickness to be an excellent defender

Lee - the people's choice

Curry - I don't care how many ways you insist on insulting him, at 24 years old he is still finding his voice ... and I sincerely hope that he and his family will recover emotionally from the trauma of having their home invaded

Morris - can play two positions up front, played for Tubby and has nice footwork

Balkman - "...rasta no pickpocket", then again.. sometimes he is

Zach Randolph - 23 and 10 is no mirage

Collins - at 6'6 a steady defensive presense in the backcourt

- cannot be used as needed because of Marbs existance
Chandler - by January people will be screaming, "I told you so" after he blocks a shot, takes it the length of the floor and dunks with ease

- cannot be used as needed because of Jeffries existance

Nichols - improved from outside every year at Syracuse, at 6'8 has above superior lateral quickness to be an excellent defender

- cannot be used as needed because of Craf existance
Lee - the people's choice

- cannot be used as needed because of Zack
Curry - I don't care how many ways you insist on insulting him, at 24 years old he is still finding his voice ... and I sincerely hope that he and his family will recover emotionally from the trauma of having their home invaded
- +/- useless dunking machine with "0" defense, shotblocking, passing
Morris - can play two positions up front, played for Tubby and has nice footwork

- cannot be used as needed because of Eddy/JJ existance
Balkman - "...rasta no pickpocket", then again.. sometimes he is

- cannot be used as needed because of Q/JJ2 existance
Zach Randolph - 23 and 10 is no mirage
- How many 23/10 games he will he be suspended this season and when he will start playing defense?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BasketballJones
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8/2/2007  9:31 AM
Posted by misterearl:

One More For The Reading Impaired

(basketball jones this is more than 5 lines so please scroll down)

arkrud - for the second time... here are my eight

now pay attention

Collins - at 6'6 a steady defensive presense in the backcourt

Chandler - by January people will be screaming, "I told you so" after he blocks a shot, takes it the length of the floor and dunks with ease

Nichols - improved from outside every year at Syracuse, at 6'8 has above superior lateral quickness to be an excellent defender

Lee - the people's choice

Curry - I don't care how many ways you insist on insulting him, at 24 years old he is still finding his voice ... and I sincerely hope that he and his family will recover emotionally from the trauma of having their home invaded

Morris - can play two positions up front, played for Tubby and has nice footwork

Balkman - "...rasta no pickpocket", then again.. sometimes he is

Zach Randolph - 23 and 10 is no mirage

Thanks misterearl. You saved me from having to count the lines.
https:// It's not so hard.
arkrud
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8/2/2007  9:47 AM
Hey misterearl.
Did I paid attention this time?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Masterplan
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8/2/2007  9:54 AM
misterearl, i like your rotation. the problem is you're ignoring guys who we know will be getting big minutes - marbury, crawford, Q, maybe nate, the JJs, fred jones etc. last year we didn't see balkman and collins until the end of the season. i hope nichols and chandler look good in suits.

IT collects young players who play unselfish offense and intense defense. i love it. but he builds his teams around 35+ mpg players who embody the exact opposite. to me that's the tragedy of this knicks era.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 08-02-2007 09:54 AM]
UB
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8/2/2007  9:57 AM
Posted by Masterplan:

misterearl, i like your rotation. the problem is you're ignoring guys who we know will be getting big minutes - marbury, crawford, Q, maybe nate, the JJs, fred jones etc. last year we didn't see balkman and collins until the end of the season. i hope nichols and chandler look good in suits.

IT collects young players who play unselfish offense and intense defense. i love it. but he builds his teams around 35+ mpg players who embody the exact opposite. to me that's the tragedy of this knicks era.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 08-02-2007 09:54 AM]

Ain't that the truth..question is, will that begin to change this year?
Bippity10
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8/2/2007  10:53 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Nope bip, that is simply the core that I would stick with

If Isiah has demonstrated anything it is his penchant for being aggressive and unpredictible. Tim Thomas not working as expected?

See ya

Channing Frye developing too slowly?

Buh-bye

I don't have a problem with him running up his cel bill to send a message that if you don't work, you will be gone.

You and I agree on this. But I am addressing a different scenario. A scenario common in NY. A scenario in which your GM is desperate to fill the seats, make the playoffs and please the boss. Don't think for a second the core that you and I love will be spared for the good of the franchise.

We keep coming back to the same old thing. To win a title, eventually you have to have a starting center, PF, SF, SG and PG that are there for the long haul. Sure you may tinker here and there, but the core should not change on a regular basis. Theoretically we are set at PF and Center. WE are unsure about our future at the SF, SG and PG position. Eventually Isiah's moves have to result in filling these spots for the guaranteed long-term. Your player of the future needs to be in place. IF you keep acquiring players who after a year or two you give up on, then you are making poor selections for your roster. Am I wrong on this? If a year from now Isiah has given up on Chandler, Balkman, Nichols, Morris, Nate than what was the point of the selections, then where are we headed. I'm not saying this won't happen, but we've already changed the core twice, so I'm not saying it won't. Until we get stability, we aren't going anywhere no matter how many under 28's we have.

I just hope that people will like me
loweyecue
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8/2/2007  1:17 PM
Posted by misterearl:

loweyecue - allow me to break the news to you

The New York basketball franchise has operated beyond the salary standards of the NBA since the beginning of time. The free-spending corporate ownership of Gulf+Western opened the checkbook to free agents and journeymen alike but that is not where it started.

It may surprise you to learn that the NBA first had a salary cap in 1946-47, its first season. Word has it that Harry Gallatin was criticized for blowing the Knicks cap to pieces with his $4000 salary in 1952 and Ernie Vandeweghe was a daily target of the press in 1953 for making over $2700.

When the "modern" NBA salary cap began in 1984-85, at $3.6 million, Bernard King was leading the league in scoring and Patrick was still a senior at Georgetown, but the Knicks has lured the likes of Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo and Paul Westphal in hopes of staying relevant in the competitive entertainment market that is New York. The Knicks got busted for tampering with George McGinnis.

That practice of spending top dollar was continued by Dave Checketts and passed to his buddy Ute Scott Layden in such memorable signings that will go unmentioned here for sake of space.

The point being, the Knicks will NEVER operate under the salary cap.

Never have.

It ain't that kinda party

[Edited by - misterearl on 08-02-2007 08:56 AM]


Whoa there!!

I am not interested in getting below the salary cap for the heck of it. I am interested in getting below the salary cap so we can spend those top dollars on TOP talent. I don't have any problem at throwing money to the right people so no need to explain the basics of market economics to me.

The point I make is that your boy Isiah has been throwing the money to the WRONG people and that in a nutshell is why we suck.
Getting below the salary cap could in two years from now put us in a position to acquire some real talent but GM extraordinaire has to go screw up those possibilities by getting another overarted stat padding scrub. Don't tell me how great a player Bozo is, because if he was that great they would have demanded a lot more for him. This has consistently been the trading pattern for Isiah and it clearly shows a complete lack of even a semblance of a plan. All he does is get high priced players try them out and carry their baggage if they don't work out.

I need a little more expertise. market savvy and plain common sense from a GM who gets paid Millions of dollars. Not hard to comprehend is it? Short term trading fails on average, and Isiah is the poster child for the reason why.


--over
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
misterearl
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8/3/2007  11:14 AM
>> I need a little more expertise. market savvy and plain common sense from a GM who gets paid Millions of dollars.

loweyecue - expertise? I'm down with expertise. I though Willis Reed showed exceptional expertise in drafting Lonnie Shelton in the second round and Michael Ray out of Montana. Montana!

The expertise that "my boy" (what is this PTI?) Isiah has shown in the draft has yet to be revealed. Given the Knicks are composed primarily of young cats, I'll look forward to see how the next two play out... as the yoots reach their prime productive years ... before being a false prophet of their collective ceiling.

Market saavy? There is only thing important to the New York market. Not salary caps or paychecks. Not gossip or interview skills. Not the size of a players house or the size of his ego.

Winning.

Common sense?

There is no such thing as common sense. If it were so "common" then there would be less conflict in the world and more love.
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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8/3/2007  11:16 AM
Masterplan - Mardy Collins looked good in his jean shorts and t-shirt in LasVegas. I hate the fact he missed running with the other yoots.

I don't think Wilson Chandler will be in a suit in November

the young man can rumble
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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8/3/2007  11:37 AM
lowey - the only point I'm trying to get you to consider is that New York, no matter who the general manager is, always has and always will consider the long term salary cap as secondary to available spare talent.

Yogi Berra: "you could look it up"
once a knick always a knick
Allanfan20
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8/3/2007  11:57 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - Mardy Collins looked good in his jean shorts and t-shirt in LasVegas. I hate the fact he missed running with the other yoots.

I don't think Wilson Chandler will be in a suit in November

the young man can rumble

Misterearl, maybe he'll be suited up, but who do you think he's getting playing time over?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Masterplan
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8/3/2007  11:59 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Masterplan - Mardy Collins looked good in his jean shorts and t-shirt in LasVegas. I hate the fact he missed running with the other yoots.

I don't think Wilson Chandler will be in a suit in November

the young man can rumble

will he play, though? if i remember correctly, he's not in any of the rotations you seem to be fond of posting.

for the record, i'm all about patience. i'm not opposed to WC and DN doing their rookie time on the bench. but in my mind there's a difference between frye sitting behind antonio davis, who we all knew would be gone in a matter of months, and balkman and chandler sitting for jeffries and randolph, who have big contracts for the next 4 years. it makes me question if i'll ever get to see what those guys can do, if we'll ever have a team that plays the kind of ball we saw in the summer league.
Instead of Bashing Marbury and The Knicks, Why Not Simply Take A Vacation?

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