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Choosing JYD to waive is dumb! (IT'S OFFICIAL)
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TheloniusMonk
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8/16/2005  11:25 AM
TMS, why do you care so much about Dolan's tax dollars?

Eventually Houston will retire, Jerome Williams MAY retire due to injury so they say (pf glut/roster spot), Tim Thomas will be gone by the deadline and so will Penny Hardaway. This is a group of players who have no future in a Knicks Uni. Others could be added to this list who are on the roster as we speak. My point is, who cares about tax dollars saved or not saved on Shandon Anderson's contract? If that's what Dolan chooses to do, so what? Dolan has to worry about that, not me. Anderson will not be putting on a Knick uni anytime soon......that's all I care about. The roster is all I care about. No need to be up in arms about s decision that will not put any W's or L's for us next season.

Screw Dolan! He's rich....he'll live.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
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crzymdups
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8/16/2005  11:28 AM
Posted by TMS:

if a player retires you don't open up a roster spot? how does a team carry retired players on their active roster? i've never heard of such a thing. if a player retires due to injury you get an injury exception & insurance pays off most of the remaining salary on his deal, no? if i'm not straight on my facts here feel free to correct me...i don't ever pretend to be the know it all on this forum...i just voice my opinion when i have one & comment on others when i agree or disagree with theirs.

what i'm fearing is that this sets up yet another idiotic move if Isiah decides to sign Diop to the LLE imo...i've maintained that from the start & unless i see Diop put up some crazy #'s in exhibition games, my mind isn't changing anytime soon on that issue.


you're assuming JYD would have retired immediately anyway, I don't think he would have.

and you're right, if the Knicks sign Diop, I don't like this move. If, however, they get James Jones, I like it a little more.

my point is, clearly, we have faulty sources for our info about contracts, maybe we shouldn't jump down anyone's throats until we known the full deal. I remember people were up in arms about the Moochie deal because people thought his contract was too long, then it turned out that last year was a team option. I'm not saying I'm the most knowledgable either - I'm saying there's stuff none of us knows and we should really wait to see before going insane.

¿ △ ?
Nalod
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8/16/2005  11:29 AM
you can carry players on "injured reserve" is sort of a roster spot. JYD would occupy one of thse spots.

JYD does not have any career threatening injuries. Just ones that are slowing him down. A player has to miss a good part of two seasons to get insurance to pay off.

If we could retire players due to injury Isiah would be running around with a sword and be lopping off hands, feet, legs and arms "retireing" players left and right!

Arm and leggless Allan would be a meer sump of a man claiming "its just a flesh wound! Im gonna play, no really, just a flesh wound!"
crzymdups
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8/16/2005  11:32 AM
LOL
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TheloniusMonk
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8/16/2005  11:34 AM
Posted by TMS:

if a player retires you don't open up a roster spot? how does a team carry retired players on their active roster? i've never heard of such a thing.

What he's saying is this: maybe if JYD was NOT amnestied he would not be seriously considering retirement. If you're already on a roster and you have a nagging injury it would buy you time to 'wait and see how the injury feels' ala Houston. But now that JYD has been waived he has to seriously think about it (if he is injured like they say). If he were to accept an offer from a team this offseason, he'd have to pass a physical. Maybe at this point he knows he cannot.

Point is, maybe if he wasn't waived he would have been on the roster all season "trying" to play and help the team when he should really be accepting that he's done. This is IF he is injured like reports have eluded to.

I think that was his point.


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
VDesai
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8/16/2005  11:44 AM
Would've rather waived Rose or Taylor vs. JYD, but that's just a personal preference. One of those 3 had to go. I think that Taylor is here for a reason...they want an offensive post threat off the bench for at least one year.

Rose has a smaller contract (albeit with more length), but still could be dealt and help a veteran team. Or, the staff may have just have preferred him to JYD. If that is the case who am I to argue.

As far as waiving Shandon, if I remember the wording was still pretty vague on whether you could use the clause on a previously waived player. Did any other previously waived guys get clause used on them?
Nalod
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8/16/2005  11:49 AM
They could have used it on shandon.

JYD if not cooked can play for another team. He can get the vets minimum and dolans gold. But he's not cuz he is cooked. He said he was looking forward to LB cuz he not gonna leave the money on the table and walk awasy. He is cooked. That is why they waived him.

He got a great deal, we saved money, and Allan will either return, or retire! Good basketball moves. If allan retires, the genious of the finance moves becomes more apparent.
MattSuspect
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8/16/2005  12:03 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by MattSuspect:
Posted by Nalod:

If jerome retires, wth no injury cause, he forfiets his contract.

IJ don't think his injuries were career threatening for insurance purposes, but they add up. JYD would have to have surgery, rehab and make a go of it for a number of games.

I think he has been breaking down for a number of years and while talented, its his hustle that makes him. If your hurting, its not good for his game!

Thus, he gets his money, the team gets a roster spot, and all is well.

Malik and Mo. T have a lot of hoop in them. Remember, JYD was just a throw in! Love him, but lets be real!


END OF THREAD. NALOD Nailed it. Nothing more to discuss.


dude, you realize if JYD were to retire, it makes even LESS sense to waive the guy? they could have waived Shandon's contract, & saved even more money off their luxury tax AND reaped the benefits of the open roster spot after JYD retired...it's simply a moronic decision any way you look at it...not a single person on this thread has said this will make or break the franchise...it's not overreaction to call out Isiah for a boneheaded personnel decision...he's praised whenever he makes a good one by me & several other critics on this thread as well...things do work both ways sometimes, as hard a concept as that may be to grasp for some of you.
MattSuspect
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8/16/2005  12:05 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by MattSuspect:
Posted by Nalod:

If jerome retires, wth no injury cause, he forfiets his contract.

IJ don't think his injuries were career threatening for insurance purposes, but they add up. JYD would have to have surgery, rehab and make a go of it for a number of games.

I think he has been breaking down for a number of years and while talented, its his hustle that makes him. If your hurting, its not good for his game!

Thus, he gets his money, the team gets a roster spot, and all is well.

Malik and Mo. T have a lot of hoop in them. Remember, JYD was just a throw in! Love him, but lets be real!


END OF THREAD. NALOD Nailed it. Nothing more to discuss.


dude, you realize if JYD were to retire, it makes even LESS sense to waive the guy? they could have waived Shandon's contract, & saved even more money off their luxury tax AND reaped the benefits of the open roster spot after JYD retired...it's simply a moronic decision any way you look at it...not a single person on this thread has said this will make or break the franchise...it's not overreaction to call out Isiah for a boneheaded personnel decision...he's praised whenever he makes a good one by me & several other critics on this thread as well...things do work both ways sometimes, as hard a concept as that may be to grasp for some of you.


No, it seems as if JYD is only considering retirement because he has been waived, and his contract is still valid. If he retired, he wouldn't see a nickel. Now he can retire and has no reason to have surgery/rehab. This is all speculation; but it seems to be the story.
MattSuspect
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8/16/2005  12:07 PM
Shandon made sense too. But, I think the additional roster spot was the kicker.
Posted by TMS:

Shandon's contract is just extra baggage on our payroll...he's not even tradeable...this was the perfect chance to get rid of the luxury tax figure attached to his salary, & still leave open the opportunity for 2 veteran players like Allan & JYD to go out on their own terms if they so choosed & open up 2 rosters spots that could be filled w/younger guys...seems to make the most sense to me.
TMS
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8/16/2005  12:25 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

TMS, why do you care so much about Dolan's tax dollars?

Eventually Houston will retire, Jerome Williams MAY retire due to injury so they say (pf glut/roster spot), Tim Thomas will be gone by the deadline and so will Penny Hardaway. This is a group of players who have no future in a Knicks Uni. Others could be added to this list who are on the roster as we speak. My point is, who cares about tax dollars saved or not saved on Shandon Anderson's contract? If that's what Dolan chooses to do, so what? Dolan has to worry about that, not me. Anderson will not be putting on a Knick uni anytime soon......that's all I care about. The roster is all I care about. No need to be up in arms about s decision that will not put any W's or L's for us next season.

Screw Dolan! He's rich....he'll live.


i could care less about Dolan's tax dollars...i do, however, care that the price to go to a Knick game these days has reached oscene proportions...does anyone here think that irresponsible fiscal policy practiced by Cablevision & Jim Dolan doesn't directly effect the price of tickets & concessions in MSG? that effects ME, & that i DO care about...if you don't attend games & choose to root for the Knicks from the comfort of your living room & pay Dolan his fees through your cable bills, all power to you...but realize as well that some of that money goes into the spending dollars as well...in the end, we're ALL affected in some way or another by bad monetary decisions made by the Knicks' management...for that reason, you ALL should damn well be concerned about Dolan's tax dollars cuz he's not the one footing this bill guys...WE are.

& no, i'm NOT a sports finance expert as someone so creatively referred to in another thread...i'm a caring Knick fan who loves this frickin franchise & is sick of watching scrubs like Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Clarence Weatherspoon, Travis Knight, Vin Baker, Bruno Sundov, Jerome James & maybe Desegana Diop in the coming days get paid overpaid contracts year after year...when do we learn from past mistakes & not repeat them?

[Edited by - TMS on 08-16-2005 12:27 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
simrud
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8/16/2005  1:30 PM
Carefl before mighty Hardcore decides to "check" your hating lol.

There seems to be one to many arrogant fools runnin around the forum latley.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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8/16/2005  1:43 PM
There's a difference between retiring after being waived and thinking that he was going to retire from the beginning. He now gets $7 mil to retire (or whatever his annual salary is). He could get the veterans min if he wanted to keep playing. His choice is retirement and playing golf or going to the beach all day while collecting $7 mil or playing for $7.5 mil (his $7 mil from the Knicks plus the vet's min he would get from another team).

If he wanted to retire but wasn't used for the amnesty clause, he'd have to negotiate a buyout with the team, which might be for much less than his annual salary. He might just consider continuing to play in that scenario.
knixphan
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8/16/2005  4:08 PM
I think the negative overreactions are just...the natural 'nyc' desire to see some of the scrappiness embodied by the 90's teams reflected in the new roster - years of recent defensive softness are making the natives restless, so a player like JYD, who at least walks some of that 90's Oakley/Mason/Xavier/Doc/Harper walk, and definitely talks the talk (I mean 'Junkyard Dog' is synonymous with 'scrappy', non?) becomes an instant emotional crutch for us (Yipee! defense is back, diving for loose balls is cool again!)

But actually, moving JYD ain't that big of a deal - We know that Dolan is keeping H20 come hell or high water, and Zeke is making lemonade out of that - or at least tryin. If we reflect on what this team looked like when Laydown left, you can't sweat a waiver like this -

Let's get on the Lee/Frye bandwagon-

"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
islesfan
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8/16/2005  5:27 PM
If this topic got 14 pages, imagine the thread when Isiah trades TT and Penny for players with even longer big money contracts.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Caseloads
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8/16/2005  5:57 PM
Posted by islesfan:

If this topic got 14 pages, imagine the thread when Isiah trades TT and Penny for players with even longer big money contracts.
they are all gonna die in your arms tonight - must have been somethng you said!!!
Killa4luv
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8/16/2005  9:50 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by islesfan:

If this topic got 14 pages, imagine the thread when Isiah trades TT and Penny for players with even longer big money contracts.
they are all gonna die in your arms tonight - must have been somethng you said!!!


LOL!!! You are stoooopid!!!!!! LOL!!!!!
Bonn1997
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8/16/2005  10:38 PM
Posted by islesfan:

If this topic got 14 pages, imagine the thread when Isiah trades TT and Penny for players with even longer big money contracts.
Yeah, I can't wait to talk about adding Elton Brand's and Shawn Marion's long, big money contracts!

misterearl
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8/17/2005  10:22 AM
>Its unbelieveable that we are not waiving Rose who is a total waste of space on the roster, on Taylor who is even worse. - Simrud

Simrud - once again you TOTALLY miss the point of doing BUSINESS in the contemporary NBA

>>Cruel as it sounds, should Houston retire because of his arthritic knees, it would actually be the best-case scenario for the Knicks. And if it happens, the decision to let Williams go first immediately becomes an unqualified financial master stroke.

The Knicks would enjoy the $21.3 million they have already saved by letting Williams go, plus an additional double-dip savings if Houston retires.

Because insurance typically covers 75 to 80 percent of a player's contract under such circumstances, the Knicks would recoup roughly $30 million of the $40 million in salary they still owe Houston for the next two seasons if he can't make it through training camp. They'd also be spared another $30 million or more in luxury taxes they're due to pay.

All told, that's roughly $81 million in savings - about double what they would have been spared had they let Houston walk instead of Williams this week.

So really, what is the risk?

- Johnette Howard Newsday
once a knick always a knick
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