Posted by djsunyc:

one thing briggs - you say to look at marbury, craw, or frye and see if they're tough enough to be a championship type player.

but look at gooden. you think he could be on a detroit or san antonio?

Im not saying it's my personal choice, Im looking at this from what the Knicks seem to be doing. If they are trying to become a mobile fast paced team that spreads the floor, Drew Gooden makes more sense that Mike Sweetney.
I DONT like that style of play. It can look pretty, but it will be exposed every time. If you dont base the concept of the team on defense and rebounding, you have a low % of having the ability to win big. In every sport--football--baseball-hockey--its so proven that defense wins. So in basketball you start with an anchor--Bynum-then add in your long armed athletic wings who can rebound block shots and defend the perimeter guys like Granger and Ariza, with high IQ tough nosed guards. Then have a bench catered to flow, a sixth man who can score--a solid big off the bench and two more guards. Right now Bynum couldnt start, but he can be the guy off the bench. Were in no hurry, because were not in position to compete for anything other than a low round playoff position.

Posted by Nalod:

Briggy, with KT gone we are moving away from what you say.

Gooden does not post up well, he is very much a Kmart type player.

With a low post, you can spread it out. Keep the middle open and Sweets eats you up! Clog it, and kick it out! A shame we could not see Allan in this scenario. Worked will with LG, and ewing when he felt like kicking it out!

Big z with sweets could be a nice combo, with Z playing a high post game where he is very effective dropping the mid range shots. He can pick and roll with Marbs. Sweets ass planted in the low paint will do very well!

Nope. if the Knicks are trying to become a mobile team, then they need a mobile PF. When all is said and one, Gooden Rahim or Antonie Walker make a better fit than Sweetney. Im not saying this is MY choice of doing things, but Im just forecasting what they want to do. Im adding in the scenario that they want YOUTH LENGTH and athletiscm, then gooden becomes the top choice with rahim 2nd because Gooden is 5 years younger than those two, much more athletic and mobile than the other 2. The other two are mobile, which still fits

none of them are very good at defense, but i would summise that gooden CAN be the best defender of the 3--the other 2 are set in their ways. Gooden still is 23 and holds length over both of the other guys and length is a big physical asset to defense

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Marv:

Briggs, please permit me one quick snit vomit, and then you get a free pass back at me whenever you want
Okay, here it is:

YOU ARE ONE TRANSPARENT HYPOCRITICAL SNAKEOIL SALESMAN!!!!

you carry on like an 8 1/2 month pregnant woman riding the subway in August (unfortunateley I've been there and done that) about a player you don't like being soft and inconsistent and weak (obviuosly Channing Frye) and then you wet your pants for a weak-willed, weak-skilled no-heart, lay-the-F-down-and-cry-when-he's-not-getting-his-way POS like Drew F'g Gooden!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

LOFL BROTHER!!!

Otherwise, I love you, man!

[Edited by - marv on 06/25/2005 17:02:38]

Well, I would draft Bynum and would work a different angle than what is presently being done. I would have tried to do anything I could with ANYONE on this roster to get both Granger and Bynum, and worked from there. I feel with two wings like Ariza and Granger coupled with Bynum would be my new core to build around. Build a team that is concentrated on defense+rebounding/shot blocking/ toughnes with superior athletic ability and skills.

but the last time i checked im a message board poster

so im trying to piece what isiah is doing--he [i guess] is trying to build a quick paced team that spreads the floor and shoots more 3s, and Drew gooden would fit that model better than Sweetney

i m going with reality, this is what they are doing--they are trying to go up tempo--I would not do it, but if this is what they are going to do, then you must find pieces that fit.

OH, WOW... OUCH...!!!!! Somebody doesn't like our smooth smiling GM.

But I hear you, man. I agree with pretty much everything you have said lately about how the team should be built and how Isiah should have approached this draft as a whole (including the trade stuff).

As for Gooden vs Q-Rich, I'd take Gooden over Q in a second. He's a decent player - atheletic, shoots & rebounds well, has proven that he can play well at age 22. Q-Rich is ok but he can't guard quick players and that hurts real bad as long as we got Marbs and Craw.

I'm praying that all this Frye rumor is a smokescreen and that we'd pick Bynum or Granger instead. Well, we'll see!

Posted by Bonn1997:


I don't agree with any of the comments on Gooden vs. Q-Rich. I think Q is a better defender and more of a team-oriented player. He personally sacrificed certain aspects of his game (e.g. post scoring) for the team. I think they're comparably good rebounders for their position (6 at SG vs 9 or 10 at PF). Gooden's got some reported character isssues too that have caused him to be traded so many times. I still think either would have been a good upgrade (Kurt for Gooden or Kurt for Q). I prefer the Q trade; Isiah probably disagrees with me b/c he pursued Gooden long before he pursued Q.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/26/2005 11:39:19]

It's hard to evaluate this trade (if it does take place) at this stage. We have to wait and see what Isiah does over the summer (and more) to evaluate this KT-Q exchange. But I would have liked to see him trade our best defensive big man for another defensive minded player. If Isiah plans to start Q at the 3 with Marbury & Craw, that's an awful backcourt defensively. Even with Frye playing at C, we'd be very weak on defense.

That's why I'd be more content if we get Gooden for KT instead, and draft Granger at 8. Marbury, Ariza, Granger at 1/2/3 and Craw coming off the bench as the 6th man would be more balanced, I think.

That would be the worst defensive lineup in the history of the NBA, and it would also be the all chucking team.

However if the line-up is
Marbury, Carw, Q, Walker, Bynum with Aundray Blatch, Ariza, JYD,and Rose coming off the bench you have one of the most explosive teams in basketball.
Marbury needs athletes to play with. He's a waste running with the guys he's trying to play with now. Use the waiver exception on Penny, give Houston a job in the booth, RETIRE ALREADY!


NOW, this, I would be very disappointed with. The line-up of:

Marbury, Craw, Q-Rich, Walker, Frye???

OH, GOD. NO F*CKING WAY! HELL NO!!!!!!!
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