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Chicago "Combine" results (strength, quickness, leaping, etc) from Chad
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Allanfan20
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6/16/2005  1:37 PM
Amd it was b/c of that that I prayed he would have fell to the #31 pick, and I envisioned a tremendous Milos and Troy Bell backcourt. Boy would I make a splendid GM lol
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Pharzeone
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6/16/2005  1:38 PM
Posted by franco12:

wonder if bogut will fall- and wonder how his #'s stack up against other players like a brad miller, tim duncan, etc.
I don't know about the HOF Brad Miller but I remember Duncan doing well with the bench press aspect of the combine because I was kinda surprise. Yeah the Euros never do well with the strength stuff.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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6/16/2005  1:41 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by franco12:

wonder if bogut will fall- and wonder how his #'s stack up against other players like a brad miller, tim duncan, etc.

I am wondering why bogut or williams even bother to go through these exersizes. They are both a lock for a 1-3, right?
Bogut has a lot to move. Unfair or not. He wants to shake the whole "white stiff, he is no athlete thing."
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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6/16/2005  1:44 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, these Chicago camp results mean little. There were a ton of guys who do great in these camps and don't really turn out to be much, and nice versa. If it doesn't translate on the basketball court, then what does it matter? Keith Van Horn is a really athletic guy, and he never turned into that monster.

As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?
To be fair, what KVH did his first two years were amazing. He truly was "white chocolate", but he got hurt and seemed to lose interest in improving himself. NJ was in a horrible mess, and then Marbury wasn't patience with him. He had a lot of problems that were his own and others that NJ caused by not developing him.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
tkf
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6/16/2005  1:46 PM
I don't care if Graham benched pressed two NYC busses 20 times and had a 75" vertical leap... I don't want him on the knicks.. These camps are all a little misleading...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Allanfan20
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6/16/2005  1:48 PM
Why don't you want him if he's supposedly tough on both ends, has a good shot, athletic and has an improved handle.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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6/16/2005  1:55 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, these Chicago camp results mean little. There were a ton of guys who do great in these camps and don't really turn out to be much, and nice versa. If it doesn't translate on the basketball court, then what does it matter? Keith Van Horn is a really athletic guy, and he never turned into that monster.

As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?
To be fair, what KVH did his first two years were amazing. He truly was "white chocolate", but he got hurt and seemed to lose interest in improving himself. NJ was in a horrible mess, and then Marbury wasn't patience with him. He had a lot of problems that were his own and others that NJ caused by not developing him.
No... It was external for KVH, not internal. He was never that strong or tough between the ears. Early on with the Nets he played with perhaps the only 2 players that really loved him and looked after him; Sam Cassel and Jason Williams. JW ensured that nobody ever messed with him and Sam really believed him as a player. We all know the guys that followed in Marbury, Kidd, KMart never liked him much lee believed in his game. As a result he kind of went into a shell and just didnt look like the player he was.
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BRIGGS
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6/16/2005  2:02 PM
Posted by tkf:

I don't care if Graham benched pressed two NYC busses 20 times and had a 75" vertical leap... I don't want him on the knicks.. These camps are all a little misleading...

why? joey graham is the BPA at 8 if he fell that far, but i think the guy who is going to tank soem is wright.

joey graham is going to be the darkhorse star of this draft. If you combine his shooting ability/defense/toughness athletic ability and strength i mean wtf do you think hes going to be, a shtty player? everything cries out potential star

but you are the same guy that thinks Josh smith is a POS.
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  2:02 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, these Chicago camp results mean little. There were a ton of guys who do great in these camps and don't really turn out to be much, and nice versa. If it doesn't translate on the basketball court, then what does it matter? Keith Van Horn is a really athletic guy, and he never turned into that monster.

As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?

"According to Briggs"? Have you seen this kid play? He's going to be a tremendous shotblocker. He's just as long as Bogut, similar vertical and is far quicker and stronger. I mean, come on. And to question his heart, fine, but he did step up in the tournie big time against the number one team in the country AND Zeke came back from Arizona tremendously impressed with Frye. The kid had 24pts, 12rebs and 6 blocks in the biggest game of his career - and this is with Salim Stoudamire shooting more shots than him.

I mean, to those who've seen this kid play and doubt him, fine. There are questions about how well he'll be able to rebound at the next level and he's no post player. But he is a good scorer and a shotblocker, he can be a pressence the same way Dalembert and Chandler are. Doesn't Zeke's talent evaluation mean anything? Doesn't the fact that Golden State and the Lakers both wanted him mean anything? To compare him to KVH? Are you frigging kidding me? Have you seen this kid? He's RIPPED. He's been ripped his whole college career. He's proved he's strong. He's proved he can step up his game, even in an offense that doesn't feature him.

Guys, this is called looking a gift center in the mouth.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 14:06:33]
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  2:08 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by tkf:

I don't care if Graham benched pressed two NYC busses 20 times and had a 75" vertical leap... I don't want him on the knicks.. These camps are all a little misleading...

why? joey graham is the BPA at 8 if he fell that far, but i think the guy who is going to tank soem is wright.

joey graham is going to be the darkhorse star of this draft. If you combine his shooting ability/defense/toughness athletic ability and strength i mean wtf do you think hes going to be, a shtty player? everything cries out potential star

but you are the same guy that thinks Josh smith is a POS.

Anyone think Utah will pick Graham? He seems like a good fit for them. I wouldn't mind Graham on the Knicks either. Right now, my board is:

1) Granger
2) Frye
3) Graham
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MS
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6/16/2005  2:08 PM
You have to look into the wingspan of a lot of these kids and the size of their hands that makes all the difference when jumping.

AI looks like a great leaper, but his vertical was just average when he was tested......

Still stay away from Frye, you can absolutely train yourself to do well in these tests....Most of these guys have been working out and not going to class so don't look to far into the numbers
BRIGGS
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6/16/2005  2:25 PM
he gets pushed around due to base strength and weight distribution. for example Mike Sweetney only bench pressed 185 3 times, but his base strength is so powerful that he is immovable off the block. Go look at Also, while he did grade out well for strength[top 3] which was spectacular and a real tribute to him, his overall score is mid 30s, meaning his athletic ability is just fair. Guys like Okafor and Dwight Howard were in the top 10 or 15 with vertical lifts 3-4 inches better. Just to prove my point, he ranked 3rd slowest out of the top 30 prospects in the shuttle run and 5th slowest in the 3/4 running drill--i mean its right here. Thats why he is 33, if he didnt bench press 185 19 times, he wouldve been in the high 50s

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1008

You are having convulsions about 1 game--why did he average 15 points 7 reb 2 blocks for his senior season then, and why does he get pushed around by the Diogu's and Bogut's?

its because he doesnt show up every game and has poor lower body strength
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  2:33 PM
why did he beat Bogut and Diogu?


also, there were 70 guys in the combine, so really what you're saying is he finished 27/70 guys, including guards. He was faster upcourt than Antoine Wright who you were calling a top 5 pick at one point. I'm not stuck on one game, I've mentioned the Bogut game, the Washington game and pretty much any tournament game he's ever played in.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 14:35:46]
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BRIGGS
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6/16/2005  2:34 PM
I tell you one of the biggest numbers that isnt being seen. Andrew Bogut's IMPRESSIVE 33 1/2 inch vertical lift. He's bigger than 95% of the field by about 2 inches or more, so a tad slower time in the running drills you can expect it,But consider he out jumped most of the guards.
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BRIGGS
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6/16/2005  2:36 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

why did he beat Bogut and Diogu?

the question should be, why does he get pushed around by those guys? the answer lies inside his chest and in his legs!
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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6/16/2005  2:40 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

why did he beat Bogut and Diogu?


also, there were 70 guys in the combine, so really what you're saying is he finished 27/70 guys, including guards. He was faster upcourt than Antoine Wright who you were calling a top 5 pick at one point. I'm not stuck on one game, I've mentioned the Bogut game, the Washington game and pretty much any tournament game he's ever played in.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 14:35:46]

this is top 30 prospects. who cares about the field of 70 im not comparing the strength of a HS or 19 YO euro to that of a 4 yr college player.


oh those antoine wright fans, OUCH
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  2:42 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

why did he beat Bogut and Diogu?

the question should be, why does he get pushed around by those guys? the answer lies inside his chest and in his legs!

I still don't buy the "no heart" tag. I saw the man step up for the whole tournament and in practically any game against a ranked opponent (i.e. the ones on TV), maybe he slept in the non-televised games and I missed it, I don't know.

And core strength can be worked on. Clearly his vertical at 31" in fine, it's better than some of the guards and it's right there with Villanueva and Diogu.

Bottom line, core strength only effects his post game, it doesn't effect the shotblocker, offensive pick and pop guy that I'm saying he will be. Is Bogut more physical in the post? Sure. Can Frye do things Bogut can't, including block shots? Yes.
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  2:43 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

why did he beat Bogut and Diogu?


also, there were 70 guys in the combine, so really what you're saying is he finished 27/70 guys, including guards. He was faster upcourt than Antoine Wright who you were calling a top 5 pick at one point. I'm not stuck on one game, I've mentioned the Bogut game, the Washington game and pretty much any tournament game he's ever played in.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 14:35:46]

this is top 30 prospects. who cares about the field of 70 im not comparing the strength of a HS or 19 YO euro to that of a 4 yr college player.

Well, that's funny considering Bogut finished 61/70.
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Bonn1997
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6/16/2005  2:49 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, these Chicago camp results mean little. There were a ton of guys who do great in these camps and don't really turn out to be much, and nice versa. If it doesn't translate on the basketball court, then what does it matter? Keith Van Horn is a really athletic guy, and he never turned into that monster.

As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?

"According to Briggs"? Have you seen this kid play?
[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 14:06:33]
I didn't get that either. When I haven't seen a guy play, I just say I haven't seen him play. Or if Isiah does draft him, you're left with having to decide who knows more about these prospects (Briggs or Isiah). To me it's a no-brainer, but I realize some people here might feel differently
Bonn1997
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6/16/2005  2:50 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

why did he beat Bogut and Diogu?


also, there were 70 guys in the combine, so really what you're saying is he finished 27/70 guys, including guards. He was faster upcourt than Antoine Wright who you were calling a top 5 pick at one point. I'm not stuck on one game, I've mentioned the Bogut game, the Washington game and pretty much any tournament game he's ever played in.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 14:35:46]

this is top 30 prospects. who cares about the field of 70 im not comparing the strength of a HS or 19 YO euro to that of a 4 yr college player.

Well, that's funny considering Bogut finished 61/70.
That's great. There are only 60 draft picks. So, we can sign him as an FA after he goes undrafted!
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Chicago "Combine" results (strength, quickness, leaping, etc) from Chad
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