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When the mentally soft surface
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Allanfan20
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6/3/2005  4:34 PM
OK. We'll keep it to the subject on hand. Anyone who says Marbury is a bad PG doesn't know basketball. Anyone who says Isiah has done a good job so far also doesn't know bball.

I've been saying it's not a bad idea to trade Marbury, not b/c I've given up on him, but b/c it's better to balance out the roster, particularly the backcourt. Put Jamal at the 1, sign or draft a big 2, put Ariza at the 3, and we're good.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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Bonn1997
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6/3/2005  4:37 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

OK. We'll keep it to the subject on hand. Anyone who says Marbury is a bad PG doesn't know basketball. Anyone who says Isiah has done a good job so far also doesn't know bball.

I've been saying it's not a bad idea to trade Marbury, not b/c I've given up on him, but b/c it's better to balance out the roster, particularly the backcourt. Put Jamal at the 1, sign or draft a big 2, put Ariza at the 3, and we're good.
Solace didn't answer this but maybe you will. Why do you want our team's worst decision maker to be the full time PG?
fishmike
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6/3/2005  4:40 PM
I love Marbs... really do. I love watching him go off, but I have seen him become weighed down with this role. He thinks too much, it pisses me off. He's the best scorer on the team, by alot. He's one of the best scorers in the NBA. Miami learned early on that bogging Wade down at PG was just cuffing one of the league's dymanic scorers. Maybe we need to get a big PG like Eric Snow. Who knows... but I'm not saying Marbury is a bad PG, just not a very good one by the definition of the role. Lets let him do what he does best and I betcha dollars to doughnuts he still gives you 6-7 assists a night.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  4:41 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

OK. We'll keep it to the subject on hand. Anyone who says Marbury is a bad PG doesn't know basketball. Anyone who says Isiah has done a good job so far also doesn't know bball.

I've been saying it's not a bad idea to trade Marbury, not b/c I've given up on him, but b/c it's better to balance out the roster, particularly the backcourt. Put Jamal at the 1, sign or draft a big 2, put Ariza at the 3, and we're good.
Solace didn't answer this but maybe you will. Why do you want our team's worst decision maker to be the full time PG?

If we trade Marbury I think that would be our best option. Jamal has been a PG in this league afterall and he's still only 25. At least he won't be schooled everynight by opposing true SGs.

I rather let Craw mature at PG and bring in a nice backup than draft Felton and still have Crawford undersized at SG and no Center like Bynum.


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/03/2005 16:43:28]
Allanfan20
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6/3/2005  4:43 PM
B/c I find him to be a smart person, judging by the way he speaks. He wants to learn the game. I have seen improvement in him. He has played better at the PG slot at the end of the season. I have faith that his decision making will improve. He is too short and Skinny to be a full time PG. Marbury is 28. I think he has reached his ceiling. I don't like him hogging up all the minutes, but they are gonna give them to him anyway.

Crawford would be perfect playing about 30- 35 minutes at PG, with a guy like, ohhh, Nate Robinson backing him up. I would like to make a whole long post about this, but I have work in 15 minutes, I still haven't showered, and my uniform isn't in the dryer.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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6/3/2005  4:45 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

OK. We'll keep it to the subject on hand. Anyone who says Marbury is a bad PG doesn't know basketball. Anyone who says Isiah has done a good job so far also doesn't know bball.

I've been saying it's not a bad idea to trade Marbury, not b/c I've given up on him, but b/c it's better to balance out the roster, particularly the backcourt. Put Jamal at the 1, sign or draft a big 2, put Ariza at the 3, and we're good.
Solace didn't answer this but maybe you will. Why do you want our team's worst decision maker to be the full time PG?

If we trade Marbury I think that would be our best option. Jamal has been a PG in this league afterall and he's still only 25. At least he won't be schooled everynight by opposing true SGs.

I rather let Craw mature at PG and bring in a nice backup than draft Felton and still have Crawford undersized at SG and no Center in Bynum

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/03/2005 16:42:33]
Yeah, he's been a PG before. How did that work out?
You don't see any problem with our team's worst decision maker being the full time PG. How many championship teams...forget that actually. How many playoff teams can say that their starting PG is their worst decision maker? I don't mind seeing if Crawford can become a PG by experimenting and playing him there occasionally but I'm not trading one of the top 5 PGs in the league just out of hope that after five years, Crawford will suddenly become a good decision maker.
Bonn1997
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6/3/2005  4:47 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

B/c I find him to be a smart person, judging by the way he speaks. He wants to learn the game. I have seen improvement in him. He has played better at the PG slot at the end of the season. I have faith that his decision making will improve. He is too short and Skinny to be a full time PG. Marbury is 28. I think he has reached his ceiling. I don't like him hogging up all the minutes, but they are gonna give them to him anyway.
I think those are all good reasons to start/continue experimenting with him at PG on occasions, but not to trade a top 5 PG and just hand over the full time PG responsibilities to him.
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  4:48 PM
if we're going to go into next season with an undersized backcourt again we might as well allow Crawford to develop into a nice PG with Marbury at SG concentrating on only scoring. Fish is 100% correct in that regard. Craw's got better PF vision and creativity than Marbury. He just needs good coaching. and like Allanfan said Crawford comes off as a pretty intelligent guy whereas Marbury has a very low IQ on and off the court.
Bonn1997
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6/3/2005  5:44 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

if we're going to go into next season with an undersized backcourt again we might as well allow Crawford to develop into a nice PG with Marbury at SG concentrating on only scoring. Fish is 100% correct in that regard. Craw's got better PF vision and creativity than Marbury. He just needs good coaching. and like Allanfan said Crawford comes off as a pretty intelligent guy whereas Marbury has a very low IQ on and off the court.
What? Marbury's a very smart passer and he's much more creative than Crawford. Craw just dribbles between the legs and puts up off balance shots. He doesn't penetrate and create for other players with one tenth the skill or IQ that Marbury does. The backcourt's not really that undersized. Marbury's size is fine for a PG. Crawford's height disadvantage is about the size of a pinky to use Fish's terminology (probably less actually since he's 6'5 1/4").
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  5:59 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by gunsnewing:

if we're going to go into next season with an undersized backcourt again we might as well allow Crawford to develop into a nice PG with Marbury at SG concentrating on only scoring. Fish is 100% correct in that regard. Craw's got better PF vision and creativity than Marbury. He just needs good coaching. and like Allanfan said Crawford comes off as a pretty intelligent guy whereas Marbury has a very low IQ on and off the court.
What? Marbury's a very smart passer and he's much more creative than Crawford. Craw just dribbles between the legs and puts up off balance shots. He doesn't penetrate and create for other players with one tenth the skill or IQ that Marbury does. The backcourt's not really that undersized. Marbury's size is fine for a PG. Crawford's height disadvantage is about the size of a pinky to use Fish's terminology (probably less actually since he's 6'5 1/4").

if he was 6-5 205 it would be a different story. He's 6-5 180 soaken wet! and no Marbury isn't a smart passer! There's a reason why he has the reputation of not being able to make his teammates better and kidd and nash do!
franco12
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6/3/2005  6:13 PM
While Nash and Kidd are leaders and intuitive, Marbury has all their physical attributes- its the brain and heart that are missing.

He's got to get a heart on his own and the brain is something that 1. a coach can impart and 2. a system can help.

If you say he doesn't make good decisions with the ball, then I say its the system that doesn't tell Marb where to move the ball, its team mates that don't move with out the ball and its a system that has Marbs & Craw out high trying to penetrate and when they can't, they're left to heave a shot up.

System and Coach.

Charlie Ward had heart and leadership, but god- he could not get into the lane and hit a lay up to save his life- all that praying to god & you think it might have helped!

Same with Chris Childs- a stand up guy that could set up other players, but could not get into the lane and when he did, couldn't do anything.

Marbury is a fine player and if you want to say he's not a true PG, well, I suppose that's fine- just like you can say Mike Piazza isn't a good catcher, but when he was hitting .300+, you didn't care much.
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  6:16 PM
Marbury has plenty of heart. He gives 100% every game, well except defensively. Like yousaid he has no brains but a real coaching staff could get the most out of him. Too bad we have to live with Herb playing KT for 40mins for another year
franco12
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6/3/2005  6:25 PM
you know we had aguire working with the big men- why not a coach for the backcourt players to work on running an offense, defense and the like.

There were too many times that I would watch a pick and roll and Marbury and Craw would not attack- they'd be happy on the perimeter.

And, BTW, I'm not saying Marbs lacks brain power or heart, just that its certainly not on par with the likes of Nash & Kidd, but he's got the physical skills, speed, dribbling and shooting ability to be on par with them.
Marv
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6/3/2005  6:31 PM
I'm all for drafting some young athletic bigs and seeing how Marbury and Crawford do with them before breaking up or switching around the backcourt.
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  6:34 PM
Posted by Marv:

I'm all for drafting some young athletic bigs and seeing how Marbury and Crawford do with them before breaking up or switching around the backcourt.

They won't do well at all because they have no chemistry whatsoever. Crawford misses 61% of his shots and Marbury doesn't run alongside him. Crawford needs to be the backup combo guard or we're screwed in the backcourt on both ends of the floor.

Marbury needs a SG who can shoot and defend to make up for his defensive woes



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/03/2005 18:36:42]
Marv
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6/3/2005  6:37 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:

I'm all for drafting some young athletic bigs and seeing how Marbury and Crawford do with them before breaking up or switching around the backcourt.

They won't do well at all because they have no chemistry whatsoever. Crawford misses 61% of his shots and Marbury doesn't run alongside him. Crawford needs to be the backup combo guard or we're screwed in the backcourt on both ends of the floor.

Marbury needs a SG who can shoot and defend to make up for his defensive woahs

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/03/2005 18:35:52]

Well in the end you may be right but I'm not convinced until we try. We want to rebuild, well here's a chance. You have a young point, SG, PF and SF. Bring in some good young bigs (hello Bynum and Morris) and let's give it a try.
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  6:44 PM
we dont have a SG

a shooting guard doesn't shoot 39% for his career and get outplayed by 6-6 200+ actual shooting guards every game

a backup combo guard scorer off the bench can afford those diffiences though. But you're right we'll see. Deep down I know Crawford is going to be our starting SG next year and we'll win 30 games again
Nalod
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6/3/2005  11:17 PM
Damm, we got one thing out: Marbury crayon box is not full!

Teaming Crawful with Stumpbury is like Dumb and Dumber.

We are younger and more athletic for sure, but Dumber! Isiah keeping it real: Real Dumb!

Dido, If I thought Kurt was the root of our problems I could go along. Our problem is not kurt, its replacing him with someone better! Not internet dream idealism, but actually getting someone better is not easy.

He is a top ten rebounder, and good % shooter. He is not a shot blocker, nor the athletic flyer we want. He is not a good along side Sweets.

But Kurt is too important now until a replcement is substantial. Not Kwame.
Bonn1997
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6/6/2005  11:59 PM
Rasheed came through again when it really counted. I'm definitely one of his supporters
Marv
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6/7/2005  2:32 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Rasheed came through again when it really counted. I'm definitely one of his supporters

The refs baby him like crazy. They're all over him, arms around him, talking him down, listening to his crap. I'm a Piston fan but i say throw his ass out of the game and let him learn how to not bitch after EVERY single call.
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