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would you guys do TT & Ariza for Shawn Marion?
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martin
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6/2/2005  6:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by franco12:

watching the play offs, I am thinking about the players playing that are making a difference.

I thought Marion was exposed in the SA series- he was not a factor and they needed him.

Now, Joe Johnson, he's a player! And he's the kind of player we need to pick up.
Marion was playing with a severely sprained shooting wrist.
Phoenix would laugh at this trade offer. You can cite needing $ to re-sign JJ and Hunter, but keeping Marion is a far higher priority than either of those players.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/02/2005 17:49:46]

I respectfully disagree. Phoenix is (now) a cost conscious team/organization. They are in the position where Joe Johnson is MORE valuable at the price they have to pay him than Marion is. And the Suns are going to have to give GOBS of money to Amare and probably will not want to have 3 max level players taking up all of their cap space.

Sign Joe J. and Hunter and then be in the market next season for another free agent or 2 to fill out the bench. That's how chicago won all of those championship and how the Spurs are doing it.
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bigpimpin
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6/2/2005  6:09 PM
oh. you're going by his averages. well i guess you would think he is a frontcourt player by his averages but everytime i watch jamsion play against a real inside player then jamison crumbles.

dirk would be an inside presence based on his averages but jamison & dirk are more 3 point shooters and jumpshooters if you watch them play

you don't have to rehash about how these great players come along every 15 years. that was my point for telling you how these playoff teams still had good seasons and made the playoffs without really having an "inside presence". Why sit and dream about something that even you said comes along every 15 years?

Marbury, Crawford, Marion would be a playoff contender, imo.

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TMS
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6/2/2005  6:20 PM
Posted by martin:

would you guys do TT & Ariza for Shawn Marion?

With Phoenix having to sign both Joe Johnson and Steven Hunter and who may also be looking for a better backup PG and C, and who need cap space soon, they may go for it.

i don't think they would go for that unless you also threw in the #8 pick & quite possibly also the #30 pick to boot...Marion's the best SF in the game right now next to Lebron, Kirilenko & Artest
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EwingsGlass
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6/2/2005  7:47 PM
I am not sure the Matrix is better than Lebron. But, there is absolutely no way Phoenix makes that trade. Maybe not even if we included the 8 pick. Marion is an echelon above the other players in the league. Top 5 player. You don;t trade that for cap space and draft picks. Not to resign Joe Johnson or Steven Hunter.
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gunsnewing
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6/2/2005  7:50 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:

I am not sure the Matrix is better than Lebron. But, there is absolutely no way Phoenix makes that trade. Maybe not even if we included the 8 pick. Marion is an echelon above the other players in the league. Top 5 player. You don;t trade that for cap space and draft picks. Not to resign Joe Johnson or Steven Hunter.

Marion is a Top 5 player? easy there..think about what you're saying for a second bro
EwingsGlass
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6/2/2005  8:11 PM
If we are looking at pure numbers, no doubt he is top 5. If we are talking actual performance including intangibles and value to a team, he is probably not even the best on his team. Still, the point remains that he is not a player that gets traded for cap space and draft picks, IMO.
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nyk4ever
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6/2/2005  9:03 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

oh. you're going by his averages. well i guess you would think he is a frontcourt player by his averages but everytime i watch jamsion play against a real inside player then jamison crumbles.

dirk would be an inside presence based on his averages but jamison & dirk are more 3 point shooters and jumpshooters if you watch them play

you don't have to rehash about how these great players come along every 15 years. that was my point for telling you how these playoff teams still had good seasons and made the playoffs without really having an "inside presence". Why sit and dream about something that even you said comes along every 15 years?

Marbury, Crawford, Marion would be a playoff contender, imo.

Great post. I honestly have to say that I think Jamison is the worst 20ppg scorer in NBA history. I really agree with your point about how everytime he plays against bigger and better 4's he crumbles becuase he always does, I've seen it time and time again. Waiting around for the next Duncan is ridiculous too, these guys barely come, theres none in this years draft and theres probably not going to be one in the next draft. They are rare. Thats why they are so great besides the Knicks will never be bad enough to get them when they are around.

I personally would love to take Shawn Marion on this team if you put him at the 3 with Marbury and Crawford(tentative) in the backcourt and Bynum and KT/Sweets in the frontcourt then the Knicks become a playoff team. Blaming Marion for his poor olympic performance is ridiculous, Iverson was the only player who played well for the olympic team, the rest of the world plays a different style of ball then these NBA'ers and Marion is your posterboy for todays NBA player... athleticism, athleticsm, and more athleticism. Marion doesn't get the points he got this year because of Steve Nash, he put up those numbers his whole career, he's even had better years. If Phoenix were crazy enough to accept that trade then I'd make it in an instant
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Solace
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6/2/2005  9:09 PM
No way in hell do the Suns do it. But, sure if the Suns are offering, I'd go for it in LESS than a heartbeat. ;)
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
gunsnewing
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6/2/2005  10:59 PM
Alright, maybe Jamison is a bad example. I wasn't the one who brought him up anyway, I said Boozer would be better.

But it still doesn't change the fact that acquiring Marion and tying ourselves up financially by not being able to improve the frontcourt would be a majoy problem. Unless you honestly think Marion will lead us to a championship, which would never happen since he couldn't do it in Phoenix with Nash and Amare!

Again, I would do the trade but I would hope to God that Bynum pans out and isn't another Diop/Big Country like bust! or hope that we strike gold in next year's lottery!
tomverve
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6/3/2005  12:33 AM
I think people underestimate how valuable Marion is to the Suns. Marion's ability to man the PF spot, sliding Amare to center, was a major, major factor in their success this season because of the matchup problems that lineup creates. Marion is almost as valuable to the Suns as Amare and Nash-- no way they'll trade him for a salary dump. If they're looking to dump salary, I imagine they'd be amenable to salary dumping Q so they could keep Joe Johnson. But not Marion.
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tomverve
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6/3/2005  12:33 AM
And needless to say, yeah, TT and Ariza for Marion would be an absolute no-brainer for us.
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Killa4luv
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6/3/2005  1:22 AM
Posted by tomverve:

And needless to say, yeah, TT and Ariza for Marion would be an absolute no-brainer for us.
Yes, but I don't think he is the kind of player we need if we are trying to build a contender. He'd be the #1 or 2 guy, and he isn't a post presence. Hes a pf who plays like a swingman but grabs alot of boards. I wouldn't want him, I'd want a back to the basket dump it down type and clear it out kind of PF. The trade wouldn't happen anyway, but I do think he may be traded.
tomverve
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6/3/2005  1:47 AM
If we traded for Marion, he'd switch back to SF (which he can play quite well). And we're certainly not well off enough to turn down All Star talent because it doesn't fit some paradigm of what kind of roster we should build. It'd be nice to have a well structured, talented roster, but you need the talent in the first place. Worst case, you could always trade a guy like Marion for a big return.
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gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  1:54 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by tomverve:

And needless to say, yeah, TT and Ariza for Marion would be an absolute no-brainer for us.
Yes, but I don't think he is the kind of player we need if we are trying to build a contender. He'd be the #1 or 2 guy, and he isn't a post presence. Hes a pf who plays like a swingman but grabs alot of boards. I wouldn't want him, I'd want a back to the basket dump it down type and clear it out kind of PF. The trade wouldn't happen anyway, but I do think he may be traded.

exactly and we'd be paying:
Marbury $22mil
Marion $16mil
Crawford $10mil

We'd have to hope for a drafted bigman to pan out or we can be satisfied with 1st/2nd round playoff exits but I guess with the situaion we're in now you'd have to do it from our standpoint.

But like others already have said, it would take the #8 pick which means no Bynum. So thanks but NO THANKS. I do think there's a good chance Phoenix would do it and resign Joe

fishmike
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6/3/2005  7:26 AM
exactly and we'd be paying:
Marbury $22mil
Marion $16mil
Crawford $10mil
In like 5 years... whats the problem? You still get your shot at a guy like Bynum with the 8 pick.

Marion isnt a #1 guy but he's very good and would really help balance the attack, just as Jamison did for Arenas and Hughes in Wash. This is the first year Marion has played 4 in this league.
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martin
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6/3/2005  8:37 AM
on second thought, for TT and Ariza the Suns would also want the #30, but I still think this is a good deal for both teams.

For all of you who thought that Phoenix would NOT do this deal, check out what they did with Marbury. Salary dump so that they could get a shot at a different type of player. Anything is possible.

If I am going to build a long-term championship team I would want more defense and spot-up shooters around my dominant big man, ala the Spurs with Duncan or LA when they had Shaq. Marion just does not fit the mold at the 3 spot: a lights out shooter who can shut down his man, and Joe Johnson is a better ball handler, better outside shooter, cheaper, and younger. Suns really want to move Amare to the 4 and get better Cs.
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diderotn
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6/3/2005  9:05 AM
No, I wouldn't trade Ariza for Marion....Have you seen how much this dude is getting paid???? We don't need big contracts in N.Y anymore..
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edsonline
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6/3/2005  10:30 AM
My name is edsonline and I approve this trade.
TMS
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6/3/2005  10:58 AM
For all of you who thought that Phoenix would NOT do this deal, check out what they did with Marbury. Salary dump so that they could get a shot at a different type of player. Anything is possible.

if they don't get back at the very least the #8 pick in your proposed deal, the fans would revolt. That team is coming off their best season in years & Marion played a HUGE role in it. This isn't the same situation they were in when Marbury was traded. There were other circumstances surrounding Amare's relationship w/Steph as well as Steve Nash's impending free agency that spurred them to make that deal.

Ariza has very limited value...no one's going to trade a proven star player for him in any deal...you'd be lucky to get back a 1st round pick for him, much less a proven star player in his prime.

[Edited by - TMS on 06/03/2005 10:59:16]
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Bonn1997
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6/3/2005  11:43 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by franco12:

watching the play offs, I am thinking about the players playing that are making a difference.

I thought Marion was exposed in the SA series- he was not a factor and they needed him.

Now, Joe Johnson, he's a player! And he's the kind of player we need to pick up.
Marion was playing with a severely sprained shooting wrist.
Phoenix would laugh at this trade offer. You can cite needing $ to re-sign JJ and Hunter, but keeping Marion is a far higher priority than either of those players.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/02/2005 17:49:46]

I respectfully disagree. Phoenix is (now) a cost conscious team/organization. They are in the position where Joe Johnson is MORE valuable at the price they have to pay him than Marion is. And the Suns are going to have to give GOBS of money to Amare and probably will not want to have 3 max level players taking up all of their cap space.

Sign Joe J. and Hunter and then be in the market next season for another free agent or 2 to fill out the bench. That's how chicago won all of those championship and how the Spurs are doing it.

No team would trade Marion to free up salary room for Stephen Hunter. We can throw his name out of the mix. It's really a question of whether they want to keep Marion or JJ. They probably signed Q either to be a cheaper replacement of JJ so that they could keep Marion and Amare or signed Q because they have a lot of money and are not concerned about being able to keep all their key players.
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would you guys do TT & Ariza for Shawn Marion?
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