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Possible salary cap move for Utah
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Killa4luv
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5/31/2005  5:07 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by djsunyc:

exactly tes. boozer does not give us anything head and shoulders better than the 5 headed monster we have now

KT, Sweetney, Malik, JYD, Mo T or Boozer...hmm, i think i'd much rather have Boozer...maybe that's just me.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/31/2005 16:57:45]
no its not just you, Boozer is like a combination of those guys skills in one player. Not one of them is capable of giving you 17 and 9, not one. That is no small feat in the NBA, and he can do it, and we need it. Period.
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diderotn
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5/31/2005  7:33 PM
Another midget lover......Dude how tall are those two names that you have just mentioned?? aren't sick and tired of the fact that we are undersized...

Posted by EnySpree:

Sloan got sick of Boozer real quick and benched him even though he was healthy in the second half of the season. Still doesn't deny the fact the guy can play.

Boozer and Harpring for Penny and maybe #30.

Utah would get salary relief. They are in the lotto and will definately pick up a big. All the draft sites and most people that seen him play know that Fran Vasquez is their guy. They will have Fran and AK-47 up front with Humphries and Handlogten(don't sleep he helped my fantasy team in the last few weeks). They won't miss Harpring with Snyder and Girecek on the team. They got Okur and Collins, plus Borchardt at center. They so don't need Boozer and Hapring.

The Knicks could use what Boozer and Harpring bring to the table. Marbs could work well with Boozer because Booze makes good cuts and can get up and finish at the rim. Harp plays hard all the time and can shoot and rebound. They both represent the new starting 4-3. This trade would allow Isiah to trade KT and buyout Timmy. The Knicks could still draft like normal.

Knicks look like:
pf: Boozer/Taylor/JYD
SF: Harpring/Ariza/JYD
C: Frye? maybe Gadzuric/Malik Rose
PG: Marbs/ Draft pick?/ trade?
SG: Craw/Houston?/Draft pick?

Get Laimbeer in here and tell me the Knicks couldn't win more games?
The true Knickabocker..........
Bonn1997
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5/31/2005  8:12 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Another midget lover
Posted by EnySpree:

Sloan got sick of Boozer real quick and benched him even though he was healthy in the second half of the season. Still doesn't deny the fact the guy can play.

Boozer and Harpring for Penny and maybe #30.

Utah would get salary relief. They are in the lotto and will definately pick up a big. All the draft sites and most people that seen him play know that Fran Vasquez is their guy. They will have Fran and AK-47 up front with Humphries and Handlogten(don't sleep he helped my fantasy team in the last few weeks). They won't miss Harpring with Snyder and Girecek on the team. They got Okur and Collins, plus Borchardt at center. They so don't need Boozer and Hapring.

The Knicks could use what Boozer and Harpring bring to the table. Marbs could work well with Boozer because Booze makes good cuts and can get up and finish at the rim. Harp plays hard all the time and can shoot and rebound. They both represent the new starting 4-3. This trade would allow Isiah to trade KT and buyout Timmy. The Knicks could still draft like normal.

Knicks look like:
pf: Boozer/Taylor/JYD
SF: Harpring/Ariza/JYD
C: Frye? maybe Gadzuric/Malik Rose
PG: Marbs/ Draft pick?/ trade?
SG: Craw/Houston?/Draft pick?

Get Laimbeer in here and tell me the Knicks couldn't win more games?
midget lover? You sound "height obsessive"; the guy can play. Who cares if he's an inch shorter than his opponent. He's still out-rebound and out-score his opponent on most nights.
diderotn
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6/1/2005  8:00 AM
Call me what you want, our need is definitely not at PF. Who would you trade to bring in guys like the dudes you have mentioned from Utah? Let me guess: Marburry or Crawfford. Typical Laydumb decisions....We don't need another PF in N.Y. unless you are willing to trade Kurt and Malik.....Now if you said Okur, I would have applaude your suggestion.

You sound "height obsessive"; the guy can play.
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Solace
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6/1/2005  8:36 AM
Tes made a great point. This is a great trade for any team, except the Knicks.

We're taking on a lot of payroll in this proposed deal and not getting our value, because we already have so many undersized power forwards.

As for the possibility of doing a Weatherspoon-for-Norris type deal, those situations were different, because Weatherspoon wasn't ridiculously overpaid. Kurt Thomas is overpaid (although more tradeable than our other scrubs). Maurice Taylor is overpaid and untradeable until he's expiring. Malik Rose is overpaid and untradeable. Jerome Williams would be difficult to trade. Sweetney is tradeable, but don't expect to get much in return.

We already have FIVE UNDERSIZED power forwards that are relatively similar in talent level. We don't need another that isn't head and shoulders better than the rest.

Now, if you trade Kurt Thomas and Mike Sweetney before you trade for Boozer, yes, I'm all for it. But, I'm against any trade that adds to our glut. At that point, instead of getting Boozer, I'd rather try to fill a need with that #30 pick that was mentioned in this proposal.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
gunsnewing
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6/1/2005  8:37 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Call me what you want, our need is definitely not at PF. Who would you trade to bring in guys like the dudes you have mentioned from Utah? Let me guess: Marburry or Crawfford. Typical Laydumb decisions....We don't need another PF in N.Y. unless you are willing to trade Kurt and Malik.....Now if you said Okur, I would have applaude your suggestion.

You sound "height obsessive"; the guy can play.

ohhh right because Shaq, duncan & Yao are available and we have the greats KT and Mo already...why in the world do we need a 17 & 9 boozer who is the only guy who can score inside???
EnySpree
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6/1/2005  9:22 AM
I can't believe the main arguement is Boozer is not that much better than KT and the rest. That is obsurd.

Height? Yeah the Knicks need a center but the fact that the Knicks have 5 back-up power-fwds and no clear starter aside from KT is obsurd.

I figured there would be more "Shut up Spree you are an idiot if you think that trade would happen!"

The more I think about it, the more I hope this trade happens. Harpring has always been at the top of his position when it comes to rebounds. The dude is thick and strong, runs the floor and can shoot. He plays tough too. Better for Ariza to go up against in practice than Timmy. Harpring is in the last year of his contract too.

I explained it already but it just looks so cool in print. Marbs to Boozer could be serious in NY. Boozer is a finisher. Every time Marbs bulldogs in the lane Boozer would be a threat to score. It's better than all 5 options we currently have.

What is cool is that making this trade still allows the Knicks to continue the youth movement. KT for Weatherspoon? I'm sure either Taylor, and Rose could find a home too. Especially for center making similiar money.
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Solace
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6/1/2005  9:28 AM
Boozer is a role player. Most here agree with that. Nobody here said that we're not a better team with guys like Boozer and Harpring in the lineup. However, it's the kind of fine tuning you do when you have a solid foundation. We don't.

A team with:

C-Taft
PF-Boozer
SF-Harpring
SG-Crawford
PG-Marbury

Bench:
C/PF-K. Thomas
PF-Sweetney
PF-M. Taylor
PF/SF-J. Williams
PF/SF-M. Rose
SF-T. Thomas
SF/SG-Ariza
PG-???

probably wins 35-40 games. Better... but still not a playoff team. We're paying an awful lot, killing our chances of getting under the cap for 5 more years, just to be a team that teeters around .500. That is not a plan for improvement.

You have to get bad and stop adding ridiculous contracts to get better. Otherwise, we will continue to teeter at the same level of mediocrity. Another poster said it, and I'll say it too. It's a Layden move all the way, because it doesn't address a need, but instead blindly tries to stockpile "talent". Later on that "talent" is untradeable, because after spending time on the Knicks, the talent is realized as role players and crap.

See the pattern yet? You have to stop the chain.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Killa4luv
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6/1/2005  1:37 PM
If we do 2 things:
trade for Boozer and Harping
somehow acquire Big Z maybe he signs for the MLE (PLEEEEEZEZ GOD)

Then we have something wirth talking about, a playoff team and a contender which needs to be tweeked.

Marbury
Crawford/Houston
Harpring/JYD
Boozer?Sweets/Taylor
Big Z/Frye or Taft


You have to like that team.
EnySpree
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6/1/2005  1:52 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

If we do 2 things:
trade for Boozer and Harping
somehow acquire Big Z maybe he signs for the MLE (PLEEEEEZEZ GOD)

Then we have something wirth talking about, a playoff team and a contender which needs to be tweeked.

Marbury
Crawford/Houston
Harpring/JYD
Boozer?Sweets/Taylor
Big Z/Frye or Taft


You have to like that team.

Yeah that would be a nice team but it definately is a pipe dream for us. It makes a lot of sense and everything works money wise but it's too good to be true.

Boozer and Big Z already played together and Marbs and Craw bring in what Cleveland was missing when they were together. Stick in Harpring or a improved Ariza and the Knicks all of a sudden look sweet.....and the bench would be one of the bset in the league.

Geez man but that is just too good to be true.
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Solace
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6/1/2005  1:55 PM
Add Big Z to the scenario and sure... sign me up. That changes the entire situation.

One addendum to what you said, though, we've have to get Big Z *before* we make the Boozer/Harpring trade. But, yes, if we got Z, then I'm interested.

With Big Z, it's a team that should win about 45 or so games a year, which gives us a decent shot. Although I had the entire Crawford-Marbury backcourt, it would be a decent team.

If you want my opinion, though, the first trade we should make should involve moving Crawford to PG and trading Marbury for the best package we can get.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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6/1/2005  1:56 PM
Posted by Solace:

Tes made a great point. This is a great trade for any team, except the Knicks.

We're taking on a lot of payroll in this proposed deal and not getting our value, because we already have so many undersized power forwards.

As for the possibility of doing a Weatherspoon-for-Norris type deal, those situations were different, because Weatherspoon wasn't ridiculously overpaid. Kurt Thomas is overpaid (although more tradeable than our other scrubs). Maurice Taylor is overpaid and untradeable until he's expiring. Malik Rose is overpaid and untradeable. Jerome Williams would be difficult to trade. Sweetney is tradeable, but don't expect to get much in return.

We already have FIVE UNDERSIZED power forwards that are relatively similar in talent level. We don't need another that isn't head and shoulders better than the rest.

Now, if you trade Kurt Thomas and Mike Sweetney before you trade for Boozer, yes, I'm all for it. But, I'm against any trade that adds to our glut. At that point, instead of getting Boozer, I'd rather try to fill a need with that #30 pick that was mentioned in this proposal.
No way; Weatherspoon was actually *more* overpaid than Kurt or Mo Taylor or Malik Rose or JYD. Kurt's contract is 1 (just 1) year longer than Spoon's was when we traded him, but Kurt's 100 times better than Spoon. Mo and JYD have two years left on their contracts (just like Spoon had when we traded him) but are better players than Spoon. Malik is a better player than spoon and has one more year on his contract than Spoon had at the time. So, he'd be the hardest to trade. We keep Malik as a nice veteran role player.
Bonn1997
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6/1/2005  1:58 PM
Posted by Solace:

Boozer is a role player. Most here agree with that.
I called him a role player, but it depends on how you use the term. At the time I was defining role player quiet liberally as anyone who isn't an all-star. I think he's a near all-star or just one tier below all-star status.
Solace
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6/1/2005  5:23 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

Tes made a great point. This is a great trade for any team, except the Knicks.

We're taking on a lot of payroll in this proposed deal and not getting our value, because we already have so many undersized power forwards.

As for the possibility of doing a Weatherspoon-for-Norris type deal, those situations were different, because Weatherspoon wasn't ridiculously overpaid. Kurt Thomas is overpaid (although more tradeable than our other scrubs). Maurice Taylor is overpaid and untradeable until he's expiring. Malik Rose is overpaid and untradeable. Jerome Williams would be difficult to trade. Sweetney is tradeable, but don't expect to get much in return.

We already have FIVE UNDERSIZED power forwards that are relatively similar in talent level. We don't need another that isn't head and shoulders better than the rest.

Now, if you trade Kurt Thomas and Mike Sweetney before you trade for Boozer, yes, I'm all for it. But, I'm against any trade that adds to our glut. At that point, instead of getting Boozer, I'd rather try to fill a need with that #30 pick that was mentioned in this proposal.
No way; Weatherspoon was actually *more* overpaid than Kurt or Mo Taylor or Malik Rose or JYD. Kurt's contract is 1 (just 1) year longer than Spoon's was when we traded him, but Kurt's 100 times better than Spoon. Mo and JYD have two years left on their contracts (just like Spoon had when we traded him) but are better players than Spoon. Malik is a better player than spoon and has one more year on his contract than Spoon had at the time. So, he'd be the hardest to trade. We keep Malik as a nice veteran role player.

Let's get this straight. Spoon was making around $5 MM and he was WAY more overpaid than Mo Taylor at $9 MM? Give me a break.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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6/1/2005  7:53 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

Tes made a great point. This is a great trade for any team, except the Knicks.

We're taking on a lot of payroll in this proposed deal and not getting our value, because we already have so many undersized power forwards.

As for the possibility of doing a Weatherspoon-for-Norris type deal, those situations were different, because Weatherspoon wasn't ridiculously overpaid. Kurt Thomas is overpaid (although more tradeable than our other scrubs). Maurice Taylor is overpaid and untradeable until he's expiring. Malik Rose is overpaid and untradeable. Jerome Williams would be difficult to trade. Sweetney is tradeable, but don't expect to get much in return.

We already have FIVE UNDERSIZED power forwards that are relatively similar in talent level. We don't need another that isn't head and shoulders better than the rest.

Now, if you trade Kurt Thomas and Mike Sweetney before you trade for Boozer, yes, I'm all for it. But, I'm against any trade that adds to our glut. At that point, instead of getting Boozer, I'd rather try to fill a need with that #30 pick that was mentioned in this proposal.
No way; Weatherspoon was actually *more* overpaid than Kurt or Mo Taylor or Malik Rose or JYD. Kurt's contract is 1 (just 1) year longer than Spoon's was when we traded him, but Kurt's 100 times better than Spoon. Mo and JYD have two years left on their contracts (just like Spoon had when we traded him) but are better players than Spoon. Malik is a better player than spoon and has one more year on his contract than Spoon had at the time. So, he'd be the hardest to trade. We keep Malik as a nice veteran role player.

Let's get this straight. Spoon was making around $5 MM and he was WAY more overpaid than Mo Taylor at $9 MM? Give me a break.
The difference in their salaries is $2.5 mil, not $4 mil. They're probably comparably overpaid. You didn't address the other three PFs I listed who would all be easier to move than Spoon (who was very easy to move).

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/01/2005 20:24:41]
Bonn1997
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6/1/2005  7:54 PM
If you want my opinion, though, the first trade we should make should involve moving Crawford to PG and trading Marbury for the best package we can get.
That looks like a disaster waiting to happen. I saw absolutely nothing from Crawford to indicate that he's ready to be the team's floor general. Your PG should be your team's best, not your team's worst, decision maker.
Killa4luv
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6/1/2005  10:45 PM
Posted by Solace:

If you want my opinion, though, the first trade we should make should involve moving Crawford to PG and trading Marbury for the best package we can get.
I don't understand this logic and I guess its probably because its not logical. Trade your teams best player because.......?
Its really senseless, with that lineup, we win 50 games the first season they're together.
Bonn1997
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6/1/2005  10:52 PM
I don't understand this logic and I guess its probably because its not logical. Trade your teams best player because.......?
People will develop amnesia for their Marbury trade suggestions if Isiah surrounds him with a half-decent supporting cast because the team would play very well.
Trading Marbury is a bad idea because you won't get equal value back. Trading Marbury *now* when the team missed the playoffs and his trade value is low is an even worse idea. Trading Marbury now and making your team's worst decision maker your full time PG is the worst idea yet.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/01/2005 22:58:17]
Solace
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6/1/2005  11:33 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Solace:

If you want my opinion, though, the first trade we should make should involve moving Crawford to PG and trading Marbury for the best package we can get.
I don't understand this logic and I guess its probably because its not logical. Trade your teams best player because.......?
Its really senseless, with that lineup, we win 50 games the first season they're together.

It's simple. Build around youth, build around height, build around potential and try to rid yourself of terrible contracts (yes, Marbury is one. His contract is worse than H20's). Come to the admission that we're not winning anything with a $110 MM team that's lacking a superstar.

This team goes in the right direction when we stop the old philosophies and start making moves that make sense.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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6/1/2005  11:54 PM
not sure how making your team's worst decision maker your full time PG qualifies as going in the right direction.
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