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If Knicks get off to a slow start, Isiah will be fired...
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Pharzeone
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5/31/2005  9:13 AM
Posted by Vmart:

Somethings that aren't going to help Isiah's situation is when teams like the Suns and Nets turn it around with a few moves. I think this should be Isiah's make or break season. He has his players in now make something happen. This team was suppose to go forward after the Playoff apperance not backwards as they did do. Sorry folks but Isiah has to make something positive happen here and I don't mean make the Knicks fun to watch and lose. I rather the Knicks be boring and post Wins.

This is it, Zeke has to show what it all about. Can't keep making excuses and blaming Dolan. Because the situation was presented to Zeke when he took the job, he took the job and said he can make something happen well its time to show it.
The Nets didn't turn it around with a few moves. They had years and amples of lottery talent to deal away. As much as everyone wants to put the success of the Suns on Steve Nash, I still say that the drafting of Stoudamire is so much important and noteworthy, and the growth of Joe Johnson. That didn't happen over nite.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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Pharzeone
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5/31/2005  9:21 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by simrud:

I hope just that happens and we get a real GM. Tired of this jokers, bigname no experience morons. Why don't we hire Starks to be our GM next, might as well, he just as much credibility as IT, at least he did not ruin a leage and failed as a GM before. And he wasnt even a a bad coach yet. Hurray, why not make David Robinson our coach, he was a great player, too and he is retired, hire him.

Most of these former players are really bad as GM's, and only get the job cause they used to be good players. I don't understand how thats supposed to automatically translate into coaching and managing.






Lets hope Isiah works out. Lets pray he works out. If not, I would be personally breaking the bank for either

Popovich or Riley
I wouldn't mind either, the only problem that I have is with Riley. Before, last season and the drafting of Wade. Riley's failure in Miami were serious. The man stepped down from his position because he was starting to take lumps and his reputation was taking damage. Like he said he had a lot of luck over the last two seasons after alot of bad luck for many years. I take Pop, if he can bring along Tim Duncan too.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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5/31/2005  9:23 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

yup, isiah is not going anywhere and it looks like mills was the one to force layden out of town, not dolan. and mills was the man that went after isiah so IF somebody gets fired, it would be mills BEFORE isiah. otherwise, sit back, and enjoy the isiah era...
Actually it was Mills and Stern. The NBA's cashcow wasn't producing the normal and dependable amount of funds. Stern got involved directly, Mills went to Stern for advise.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
MS
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5/31/2005  9:24 AM
The suns may have won 40 games without Nash running the show the offense is pathetic when he isn't in the game, of course it take a lot of maturing with teams.....

And the Nets had a few good players, two of which were injured Martin and Kittles, and then Thorn got kid, traded for depth picked up Jefferson and Collins, so I would say that was a quick fix....

Layden had more than enough time, and he pulled off some of the worst deals in NBA history, but Isiah continues to make bad deals, and if he trades the pick for Zach or Kwame he should be fired immediatley
diderotn
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5/31/2005  9:26 AM
Hey! race is a reality in this country...It is sad to say, but America is a still a white man's world. If Jordan got the back hand, it is not Isiah that wouldn't be done the same. To have leverage in this league as a black man, you have to be a majority owner. Isiah is just another pun in this situation. His desire to win in N.Y is bigger than anyone who has been with this administration for a while, but the truth still remains that he has to have a very successful season to be retained as a GM.

I am very confident that he will succeed, but I am anxious to know what he will do when it comes to hiring a coach. The day he comes out and introduce his coach for next season, if it turns out that Herb is the man, I will give him 30 games to prove that it is a good move. I won't run into conclusion, I will give him the benefits of the doubt. I want Laimbeer to run this team....If it is Laimbeer, we will have to give him 2 years to put his imprint on this squad, but within 1 year, one thing is for sure, we will be a very competitive squad.
The true Knickabocker..........
franco12
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5/31/2005  9:32 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Hey! race is a reality in this country...It is sad to say, but America is a still a white man's world. If Jordan got the back hand, it is not Isiah that wouldn't be done the same. To have leverage in this league as a black man, you have to be a majority owner. Isiah is just another pun in this situation. His desire to win in N.Y is bigger than anyone who has been with this administration for a while, but the truth still remains that he has to have a very successful season to be retained as a GM.

I am very confident that he will succeed, but I am anxious to know what he will do when it comes to hiring a coach. The day he comes out and introduce his coach for next season, if it turns out that Herb is the man, I will give him 30 games to prove that it is a good move. I won't run into conclusion, I will give him the benefits of the doubt. I want Laimbeer to run this team....If it is Laimbeer, we will have to give him 2 years to put his imprint on this squad, but within 1 year, one thing is for sure, we will be a very competitive squad.

You're going to give Laimbeer two years but Herb barely gets one?
Vmart
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5/31/2005  9:38 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Vmart:

Somethings that aren't going to help Isiah's situation is when teams like the Suns and Nets turn it around with a few moves. I think this should be Isiah's make or break season. He has his players in now make something happen. This team was suppose to go forward after the Playoff apperance not backwards as they did do. Sorry folks but Isiah has to make something positive happen here and I don't mean make the Knicks fun to watch and lose. I rather the Knicks be boring and post Wins.

This is it, Zeke has to show what it all about. Can't keep making excuses and blaming Dolan. Because the situation was presented to Zeke when he took the job, he took the job and said he can make something happen well its time to show it.
The Nets didn't turn it around with a few moves. They had years and amples of lottery talent to deal away. As much as everyone wants to put the success of the Suns on Steve Nash, I still say that the drafting of Stoudamire is so much important and noteworthy, and the growth of Joe Johnson. That didn't happen over nite.

I am refering to record not talent. It was one move that helped the Nets that was none other than Jason Kidd. What was more amazing was that the Nets were able to develop two rookies while going to the finals two straight years. Jefferson and Collins and now Kristic.

As for the Sun they also turned it around quickly. With the addition of Nash and Q-Rich, they got to the playoffs in style. Now what I was saying is that Isiah has the pressure of the two teams that turned it around fast on him. You honestly think the Nets would have turned it around without JKidd, highly doubt it. You think the Suns would be where they are without Nash or Q-Rich highly doubt it.

If Isiah's team puts out another year like this there is no way anyone should be signing his praises especially if the young get no run to develope. Its Layden all over again. Before LAyden went out he had vets starting and a bunch of young players on the bench and Europe. He had Lampe, Sweetney, Slavko, Frank Williams and Vujanic over seas. I personally think that Isiah is all smoke and mirrors. BUt I will definitely give him a year or two to prove what he has made the Knicks into. But he has to play the Young bigger minutes.
Cookdcokehop
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5/31/2005  9:44 AM
Posted by diderotn:

BRIGG! the thing about N.Y. is that a black man will not get that long of a time to show what he really can do. In areas where a white GM would get 4 to 5 years, as a black man, you only get 2 years...If Isiah doesn't have a strong start and a strong finish next season and make the playoffs, he will be history...

Amen My Brother
Nalod
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5/31/2005  10:18 AM
Posted by diderotn:

BRIGG! the thing about N.Y. is that a black man will not get that long of a time to show what he really can do. In areas where a white GM would get 4 to 5 years, as a black man, you only get 2 years...If Isiah doesn't have a strong start and a strong finish next season and make the playoffs, he will be history...

Maybe thats the problem, we have Mills, a black man, Isiah, a black man, Chaney, Herb, and Wilkens, all black men! Maybe we should not hire "the black man"!

Thats a joke obviously!

Dido, are you freakin out of your mind! This has nothing to do with race or lenght of contract! Isiah is and was a charasmatic hire! Everybody was enamerred with him and the "messiah" was performing miricles with the marbury trade!

His biggest sin was not blowing it up and its likely to be the pressures to keep revenue flowing. His second sin is trying to rebuild and remain viable. YOu must lose in order to evenutally win!

I for one have remained critical to the job he is doing because he is doing the wrong thing. For what he is actually trying to accomplish he is doing a decent job. He creates a buzz, and is getting younger and more athletic. But we are not addding blue chip quality guys, and I think this will take years, which I am not sure Isiah has or even wants!

Dolan and NY gives any man a chance. I thought Layden was abused totally and he did the same thing Isiah is doing, a bad job with little chance to succeed. Layden was doomed for many many reasons, and I am being consistant to say Isiah will follow the same fate unless the direction changes.

I root for Isiah to succeed as I did for Layden! The Marbury trade was very obvious in its intent and it worked great for PHX as they overpaid for Nash, but got their man! Colangelo had huge balls to do what he did. The team did a huge salary dump and got sold at the same time!

The thing with the garden for the last 20 years is its run like an entertainment company. Ewing was the centerpiece but we never built anything around him, we just kept adding pieces. The same thing exists today, trading for Dice was similar, as was Marbury! He is a great talent, but not a cornerstone to build around.

I have very little faith, but am a fan out of interest. I love the chess game of personel moves, and the strategy applied.

Problem is it takes YEARS to build a winner, and in NY there is much competition for the sports dollar.

Dido, shame on you for pulling the race card. Thus far, Isiah has not bailed, but his biggest problem is bloating the payroll. He has blundered the wilkens hire, and shandons contract. Taking on Penny is killing him. That is almost 20mil right there, big damm money!
rvhoss
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5/31/2005  10:22 AM
best example would be what happened at Notre Dame.

The only coach to not have his contract term completed before he was let go by the university (in the history of the school) was the black coach.

Like it or not fellas, black managers, in all sports, are on a short leash.

Isiah is no different.

all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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5/31/2005  10:23 AM
Posted by Nalod:


Dido, shame on you for pulling the race card. Thus far, Isiah has not bailed, but his biggest problem is bloating the payroll. He has blundered the wilkens hire, and shandons contract. Taking on Penny is killing him. That is almost 20mil right there, big damm money!

He also got 2 first round draft picks, got Marbury, drafted Ariza and acquired Crawford.
all kool aid all the time.
Nalod
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5/31/2005  10:29 AM
Posted by rvhoss:
Posted by Nalod:


Dido, shame on you for pulling the race card. Thus far, Isiah has not bailed, but his biggest problem is bloating the payroll. He has blundered the wilkens hire, and shandons contract. Taking on Penny is killing him. That is almost 20mil right there, big damm money!

He also got 2 first round draft picks, got Marbury, drafted Ariza and acquired Crawford.

I was supporting Isiah!

But lets be real, He paid a kings ransom for Marbury, and was the only bidder for Crawful, might have overpaid. I love Reezy and am very glad he is on our roster!

But as I said, Isiah is doing a good job trying to complete an impossible task in a manner not conventional! Rebuiding on the fly with a bloated payroll and a challanged roster is not easy!
franco12
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5/31/2005  10:54 AM
the knicks got off to a good start this year, then fell apart.

I'd rather see signs of improvement- better defense, some chemistry and style of play- and yes, some time and improvement from Sweets, Craw & Ariza, and whoever we draft.

But, if we're watching sub-500 ball and penny and TT are getting time over Ariza, then, yes, I am going to be on the fire IT bandwagon
MS
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5/31/2005  11:04 AM
Ok first round picks at the end of the first round are not an accomplishment, neither is taking on salary and giving 55 million to an inconsistent jump shooter who doesn't play defense

Acquiring a star guard who plays like a high school kid when it matters isn;t exactly a ringing endorsement for what he has accomplished here
TMS
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5/31/2005  11:32 AM
If Knicks get off to a slow start, Isiah will be fired...

i'd be fine w/that...i think he's been given a proper amount of time to show that he has a plan in mind w/all the moves he's made since he got here...if the team continues to be muddled in the same sorry cycle they've been in since Grunfeld left, i think it's pretty clear that a change needs to be made until someone comes in who has the right plan for this franchise...the fact that i am scratching my head at a few of the moves Isiah's made leads me to believe that he really doesn't have one, but i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt to see what he does w/the draft.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
rvhoss
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5/31/2005  12:58 PM
Posted by franco12:

the knicks got off to a good start this year, then fell apart.

I'd rather see signs of improvement- better defense, some chemistry and style of play- and yes, some time and improvement from Sweets, Craw & Ariza, and whoever we draft.

But, if we're watching sub-500 ball and penny and TT are getting time over Ariza, then, yes, I am going to be on the fire IT bandwagon

I agree with this.
all kool aid all the time.
fishmike
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5/31/2005  1:39 PM
the Knicks were 16-13 and had played the NBA's easiest schedule of any team and were 100% healthy. Then they (like every team does) got nicked up a bit and folded like a cheap suit.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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5/31/2005  2:02 PM
Posted by fishmike:

look at how long Layden got, and someone tell me Isiah is on a short leash. Also didnt Zeke get like a 7 year contract?
I thought it was a 3 year $7 mil contract?
crzymdups
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5/31/2005  2:34 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

look at how long Layden got, and someone tell me Isiah is on a short leash. Also didnt Zeke get like a 7 year contract?
I thought it was a 3 year $7 mil contract?

no, I'm pretty sure it was a 7 year deal. But that didn't stop axing Layden or Lenny.

Look, I'm not advocating this or saying it should happen. If anything, I have been one of Isiah's biggest defenders. I think he SHOULD get three years starting today to rebuild the team as HE sees fit. BUT, as a Knicks fan, I know it won't happen and it's more likely we'll see Zydrunas Ilgauskas here than Channing Frye. I'm getting sick of it. I want to be excited for this draft, for a chance to add a young 7-footer and two more young guys, but I'm not. I'm dreading a trade. I'd rather do the Chicago Bulls rebuilding thing than the last 5 years we've gone through, trying to keep a mediocre team that snuck into the Finals going...
¿ △ ?
TMS
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5/31/2005  2:48 PM
it would be alot easier to be patient if you could see a definite plan of action being laid out & executed...just saying you want to get younger & more athletic & then bringing in guys like Vin Baker, Malik Rose, Mo Taylor, Bruno Sundov, Moochie Norris & extending KT makes you scratch your head & it's kinda hard to be patient when the same old cycle gets repeated every year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
If Knicks get off to a slow start, Isiah will be fired...

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