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Charlotte is willing to tradeeeeeeeeeee
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diderotn
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5/26/2005  11:05 AM
Dude!! please wakeup....It takes more than one talented player and a hell of a head-coach to win in this league...Kobe is a hell of a talent and so is KG, but did they do any better than Marb???? hell no. But, are their respective teams giving up on them? no....Dude! you make me sick with your point of views...Bad enough we only have the 8th spot as our pick and a horrible PF/C in Kurt, so please....let's agree to disagree...I am true Knickebocker, not one who can't see past the freaking walls that we are facing right now..

Posted by MS:

Marketability well someone named Lebron James is going to be a free agent pretty soon, and I would bet he could attract bigger crowds, as will be Melo...

So nice winning isn't important and its just about marketing why not bring every overpriced underachiever here and not mover foward.....yeah that plan isn't really working.....

You have assets to trade and a future instead of the worst clutch point guard in the league, not playing d, missing free throws, clanking big shots, throwing the ball to the wrong people.....

Hey put those Steeeeeeepppppppppppppphoooooooon Maaaaarrrrrrrrrrrbury's meaningless puckets appease the crowd
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diderotn
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5/26/2005  11:06 AM
Still, they will expire no later than Houston's

Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by diderotn:

Building a championship takes time...you have to be patient and you have to spend wisely, which is something that N.Y. fans and Dolan don't know much about. You can still make money while collecting pieces. Isiah has the right idea, but I don't know if his surrounding believe in his him...His approach is the perfect approach, especially given the bad cap situation that he has inherrited. he didn't incur any bad contracts that is longer than Houston's, that to me is smart thinking....TT, Penny, Houston, Mo. T will all expire next season...

no Houston and Mo expire a year after TT & Penny! They expire after 2007!!!!!!!! not 2006!!!!
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nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  11:38 AM
I doubt Charlotte is trading both of their lottery picks, drafting players for an expansion team is key and I think Bernie Bickerstaff is just down on the fact that he did not get into the top3 with either of his picks. If Charlotte is serious about discussing a trade then I'd certainly try and jump and to grab their #5 pick. Maybe with a scenario like this?

NY TradesPick #9, Pick #30, 2006 Protected 1stRound Pick

NY RecievesPick #5

Take Green at 5.

Now Trade with Memphis
NY Trades2006 Spurs Pick + Cash
NY RecievesPick #19

Take Bynum or Blatche if available.

That leaves us with no 1st rounders next year but we would be getting 2 great prospects in this years draft and Zeke can get draft picks if he decides to trade the expiring contracts of Penny and TT.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 05/26/2005 11:39:47]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
diderotn
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5/26/2005  11:45 AM
I like your idea...Why does it even matter whether or not we have a 1st rounder next year? We don't need to have a first rounder next season, especially if we can con any team to trade their picks this year. We will have a boat load of money to offer FAs while this year's youngins and last are well aclimated to the league.
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crzymdups
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5/26/2005  11:52 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I doubt Charlotte is trading both of their lottery picks, drafting players for an expansion team is key and I think Bernie Bickerstaff is just down on the fact that he did not get into the top3 with either of his picks. If Charlotte is serious about discussing a trade then I'd certainly try and jump and to grab their #5 pick. Maybe with a scenario like this?

NY TradesPick #9, Pick #30, 2006 Protected 1stRound Pick

NY RecievesPick #5

Take Green at 5.

Now Trade with Memphis
NY Trades2006 Spurs Pick + Cash
NY RecievesPick #19

Take Bynum or Blatche if available.

That leaves us with no 1st rounders next year but we would be getting 2 great prospects in this years draft and Zeke can get draft picks if he decides to trade the expiring contracts of Penny and TT.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 05/26/2005 11:39:47]

to my knowledge, we cannot trade the 2006 pick, because it's conditionally going to Phoenix if it's over #20. Now, obviously, we're not going to have a top ten record next year, but I don't think the league will sanction that. "oh, we agree you're going to suck again next year...go ahead and trade..."
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Pharzeone
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5/26/2005  11:56 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by diderotn:

Dude,,,,,you are dumb for suggesting a trade of a markee player like Marburry while we don't even have a guy that we can use to attract the crowd. Rule #1 of marketing is this: it doesn't matter how good or great something is, you just have to put a pretty picture to it to attract consumers...In this case, we have Marburry who is a freaking star in this league and a homeboy. With him, regardless of how bad the Knicks are, they will still attract the crowd, which in return will provide revenue to pay for all of the overhead costs....Wake up my friend....

LA is not even considering a trade of Kobe, nor is Minnesota with Garnet. Do you know why? because Kobe and Garnett pay the bills

Posted by MS:

diderton you are the guy who asked for charlottes picks without giving up craw, marbury, and ariza, you seem pretty ****ing dumb to me...

This team is terrible has no defensive intensity, and we would be working our way under the cap and developing young talent...instead of just missing the playoffs every year.....the 5 picks is far fetched but you are developing big talent and bring in a good defensive minded tough as nails point guard.....

Their is such a thing as free agency in 2007.....Granger is going to be a great small foward and is play and guard multiple positions, Williams can guard both guard spots, you also can package sweetney and crawford down the road......who cares if we are terrible but are making progress....its better than seliing this team a false bill of goods....and two guys that are 7 feet thats not height

[Edited by - diderotn on 05/26/2005 10:51:26]

could've sworn this was about winning a championship. not covering overhead costs. but you might be right with since this is Dolan and the Knicks!
That lineup doesn't mean championship either. This is a draft that may be without a legit superstar. Or a developing one. Since the Knicks haven't won a championship for about say 20 years before Dolan and his family even took over so I wouldn't say he doesn't want to win one either. This is the problem as much as anyone wants to put Bynum, Frye, Bogut, or Taft. None of these guys are a lock to be dominate in the NBA unlike your Shaqs, Hakeems, Duncans, Ewings or even Robinsons. This is a crap shoot. I am not working anyone out so I don't know. I am down on Bogut but who knows maybe this guy is the real deal, it is scary about this Bynum push that is now coming as though there have been multiple open workouts and posters were typing as they watch this guy play. It could be that you draft someone who makes KT look like the 2nd coming of Moses Malone. Crap shoot. Can anyone post an article where they can attribute a gm, scout, a rep from a NBA franchise that worked this guy out yet?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Knick2001
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5/26/2005  12:13 PM
We will have a boat load of money to offer FAs while this year's youngins and last are well aclimated to the league.

The Knicks have no cap relief for at least 2 more years before they even remotely could have a "boatload of money" to spend on FAs.
Vmart
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5/26/2005  1:01 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Building a championship takes time...you have to be patient and you have to spend wisely, which is something that N.Y. fans and Dolan don't know much about. You can still make money while collecting pieces. Isiah has the right idea, but I don't know if his surrounding believe in his him...His approach is the perfect approach, especially given the bad cap situation that he has inherrited. he didn't incur any bad contracts that is longer than Houston's, that to me is smart thinking....TT, Penny, Houston, Mo. T will all expire next season...

H20 still has 2 years remaining, this year and next. Mo Taylor does also.

IT hasn't done much to reduce the cap either.

[Edited by - Vmart on 05/26/2005 13:03:53]

[Edited by - Vmart on 05/26/2005 13:33:14]
nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  1:41 PM
Too me Isiah was not going to win no matter what he did. If he came here and let the cap situation run its course; which would have taken atleast 4-5 years then there would be people ripping him because the Knicks are terrible becuase he's not adding any new players or contracts. Since we all know it would be extremely hard to rebuild in NY, ESPECIALLY with the payroll he inherited, he has decided to let the big contracts of TT, Penny, H20 wind down(so far) while adding a fantastic young PG who was just entering his prime when he attained him.

I have no problem with what Isiah has done so far, I am not complaining with any trade he has made. You can question the MoT trade if you want, but its not a trade that killed the Knicks, it might have been Questionable but its questionable at the worst becuase Moochie and Vin were terrible for the knicks AND they were taking up 2 roster spots so if they stayed then you can forget about the Knicks ever getting Butler on this team becuase there would not have been roster space.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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5/26/2005  2:00 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Too me Isiah was not going to win no matter what he did. If he came here and let the cap situation run its course; which would have taken atleast 4-5 years then there would be people ripping him because the Knicks are terrible becuase he's not adding any new players or contracts. Since we all know it would be extremely hard to rebuild in NY, ESPECIALLY with the payroll he inherited, he has decided to let the big contracts of TT, Penny, H20 wind down(so far) while adding a fantastic young PG who was just entering his prime when he attained him.

I have no problem with what Isiah has done so far, I am not complaining with any trade he has made. You can question the MoT trade if you want, but its not a trade that killed the Knicks, it might have been Questionable but its questionable at the worst becuase Moochie and Vin were terrible for the knicks AND they were taking up 2 roster spots so if they stayed then you can forget about the Knicks ever getting Butler on this team becuase there would not have been roster space.

if isiah came here and said from day 1 the plan was to get under the cap while bringing in young players and go through a rebuilding process, NOBODY on these boards would say jack b/c it would've been a plan, and a plan that hasn't been used in ny in a long long time.

casual fans may be pissed b/c of the current losing but here, on these boards, we'd have no problems b/c there was a grand plan in place.

but what he did was state the opposite. then changed his statements midway through the game. then made contradicting roster moves, all the while putting us into FURTHER cap hell.

so he appeased neither part of the fan base and now EVERYBODY's bitter on him (minus 1 or 2 here and there)
eViL
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5/26/2005  2:05 PM
He also said he was gonna lie to the media. So he covered himself. HAHA!!
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nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  2:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

but what he did was state the opposite. then changed his statements midway through the game. then made contradicting roster moves, all the while putting us into FURTHER cap hell.

so he appeased neither part of the fan base and now EVERYBODY's bitter on him (minus 1 or 2 here and there)

I understand everyones beef with Isiah, I really do. I also see the side where Isiah got kinda screwed, along with the rest of the Knicks organization and every player on the team. When Zeke got to the Knicks and said all the things he said he also expected to have a fully healthy Allan Houston who WAS and IS supposed to be a huge part of the Knicks team. It's 20ppg in the starting lineup and JCraw doing his thing as the 6th man. When H20's knee injury worsened and worsened, something that not many saw coming for whatever the reason because players like JKidd and CWebb are both back from this injury much quicker then H20, a huge part of his plan changed. If you put a healthy Allan Houston into the Starting Lineup from Game 1 way back in October (which is the way it was supposed to be) then you would see a completely different New York Knicks record.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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5/26/2005  3:00 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:

but what he did was state the opposite. then changed his statements midway through the game. then made contradicting roster moves, all the while putting us into FURTHER cap hell.

so he appeased neither part of the fan base and now EVERYBODY's bitter on him (minus 1 or 2 here and there)

I understand everyones beef with Isiah, I really do. I also see the side where Isiah got kinda screwed, along with the rest of the Knicks organization and every player on the team. When Zeke got to the Knicks and said all the things he said he also expected to have a fully healthy Allan Houston who WAS and IS supposed to be a huge part of the Knicks team. It's 20ppg in the starting lineup and JCraw doing his thing as the 6th man. When H20's knee injury worsened and worsened, something that not many saw coming for whatever the reason because players like JKidd and CWebb are both back from this injury much quicker then H20, a huge part of his plan changed. If you put a healthy Allan Houston into the Starting Lineup from Game 1 way back in October (which is the way it was supposed to be) then you would see a completely different New York Knicks record.

but its only 20pts a game as the #1 option on a 30win team, which means he would never average 20 on a good team and didn't when we had ewing, spree & LJ. They made a huge mistake overrating Houston from the day they signed him to 7yrs $100mil til Isiah decided to blame this lost season on Houston's injury when it was clear he was never going to play more than 15-20games this season. If he's lucky he can last an entire season if they limit him to 15mins a game. off the bench when you need a little shooting. We still need a real SG so we can make Crawford the 6th man.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 05/26/2005 15:04:16]
nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  3:07 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:

but what he did was state the opposite. then changed his statements midway through the game. then made contradicting roster moves, all the while putting us into FURTHER cap hell.

so he appeased neither part of the fan base and now EVERYBODY's bitter on him (minus 1 or 2 here and there)

I understand everyones beef with Isiah, I really do. I also see the side where Isiah got kinda screwed, along with the rest of the Knicks organization and every player on the team. When Zeke got to the Knicks and said all the things he said he also expected to have a fully healthy Allan Houston who WAS and IS supposed to be a huge part of the Knicks team. It's 20ppg in the starting lineup and JCraw doing his thing as the 6th man. When H20's knee injury worsened and worsened, something that not many saw coming for whatever the reason because players like JKidd and CWebb are both back from this injury much quicker then H20, a huge part of his plan changed. If you put a healthy Allan Houston into the Starting Lineup from Game 1 way back in October (which is the way it was supposed to be) then you would see a completely different New York Knicks record.

but its only 20pts a game as the #1 option on a 30win team, which means he would never average 20 on a good team and didn't when we had ewing, spree & LJ

I think that is totally false. Allan Houston has never had ANYONE around him after Ewing and LJ left, you can even say Allan carried the team in that 2000 finals run... Ewing was barely even playing! Yeah Spree was ok but he's not Stephon Marbury and Kurt Thomas was the only guy upfront. Allan Houston would have had a HUGE year this year had he been back from injury in the starting lineup of Marbury/H20/TT/KT/Nazr. Thats a damn good lineup and H20 would have been second in on the team in scoring. The offense that the Knicks are running right now is designed FOR Allan, this is why you see Jamal shooting 3's and doing what he's doing because thats supposed to be Allan Houston doing that and Allan Houston is a MUCH BETTER shooter then Jamal Crawford is.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 05/26/2005 15:07:57]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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5/26/2005  3:12 PM
let me look at the stats but I remmeber besides 'The Shot" against the heat Sprewell carried us while defending the other teams best backcourt player. let me check basketballreference.com
gunsnewing
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5/26/2005  3:15 PM
right off the bat Sprewell averaged more points in 600 less minutes than Houston in the 99 "finals run" season. http://basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=NYK&lg=n&yr=1998
nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  3:17 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

let me look at the stats but I remmeber besides 'The Shot" against the heat Sprewell carried us while defending the other teams best backcourt player. let me check basketballreference.com

This is so off topic by now haha. Says on basketball reference that Allan averaged 17.6 while Spree averaged 18.7 I just think the fact that everyone seems to be blaming H20 and Kurt Thomas for the Knicks misfortunes is a huge mistake, these 2 guys especially Allan have were a huge part of the Knicks success for all those years. Just becuase Layden offered the contract he did, does not make it H20s fault he got paid like that. He has played really well for the Knicks especially in the playoffs throughout his whole career.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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5/26/2005  3:19 PM
in the playoffs Spree averaged 20.4 while guarding the othe teams best perimeter player which is an awful lot of work and Houston only 18.5

Spree
http://basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=SPREWLA01

Houston
http://basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=HOUSTAL01
nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  3:20 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

right off the bat Sprewell averaged more points in 600 less minutes than Houston in the 99 "finals run" season. http://basketballreference.com/teams/teamyear.htm?tm=NYK&lg=n&yr=1998

playoffs are what matters and yes Spree averaged more but Allan Houston was the one making the big shots.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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5/26/2005  3:23 PM
As you know guns, I'm not big on stats, I'm big on what I see from players on the court and I never saw Allan Houston (before last year) be nothing but one of the best players on the Knicks for years, I couldn't say the same about Sprewell whose erratic played led to him not showing up every night(yes he played really well in the finals but so did Allan) unlike Mr. Houston.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 05/26/2005 15:25:50]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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