Posted by Cookdcokehop:

I made a post on that trade about a month ago. Zeke is not adding any more money to the salary cap. Plus Brian Grant is just another Kurt Thomas.

Explain Malik Rose and Mo' Taylor.

Posted by franco12:

Ouch!

That's the sound of our maxed salary cap getting even more maxed out.

Except for Grant, I love the trade- and I'm not such a huge fan of Odom- I worry about him not playing up to his talent like Tim Thomas.

And don't TT & Penny add up to $27million? That is huge and if we're giving that kind of cap relief, besides the best player in the deal, I'd like also at least one unconditional first round draft pick- could be in year or two or three when the Lakers think they might be good again.

Odom may have a timid moment, but TT has NEVER averaged 10 boards a game. Odom has done it 2 years in a row. Odom plays D.

As for the Lakers NOT making the trade because it makes them look worse in the Shaq trade... well thats NY Knick Layden type thinking. You can live with a mistake and continue to punish yourself, or you can move on and work to fix it. This trade does not make the Lakers a better team next year. It does put them in a position that got Shaq there in the first place. Thats the year Yao and Amare are FAs. Plus when you have cap space you can take a big contract back. Maybe its Artest. The point is there are options. Now they have no options for 2 years, no high picks and a grumpy star because his team sucks around him.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Rich:

I'm tired of solving another team's cap problems. It's time to trade players for expiring contracts instead of trading players with expiring contracts.

Odom doesn't put this team on track for a title.

[Edited by - Rich on 05/15/2005 22:12:03]

thats the problem. We would all love to trade Marbury's hindering $22mil a year contract and have a shot at Greg Ogden next year. Its the only way we're going to get a championship calibur dominant Center.

This organization should realize that the reason they were contenders every single year was because they landed Ewing with the #1 pick. But you have to face reality, if you don't then might as well root for another team. This is the Knicks way. At least for as long as Dolan is the owner.

This team needs a Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron in the worst way. We're not getting a bigman or immortal player with the 8th frickin pick!So we have to take the best player available regardless of his size

Actually we would not all love that, speak for yourself.

Well said.

Isiah can do no wrong in your eyes, huh?

well thats a deal you just dont make. Say no thanks and walk away. To me taking back Grant and giving you $20mm in cap space at the end of the year is enough of a reason to let Odom go (who didnt play well with Kobe anyway).

Could they get better offers for Odom? I'm sure they could, but show me another team that will take back Grant. I dont see it. Anyway if they want our picks(s) you just walk away. There are other options out there

Posted by fishmike:

how about Foyal and Pietrus for Mo T and pick 8?

Is Pietrus really worth pick 8 and taking back Foyle? I know we also give them Mo, but Foyle's through '10.

Posted by fishmike:

how about Foyal and Pietrus for Mo T and pick 8?

I said BIENDRINS AND Pietrus AND picks 40+42 for 8+30 Tim Thomas and I will take Fischer or Foyle off your books.

Unless I get the 7 footer and Pietrus, I want 0.


But knick fans, we dont think that way--we need a name guy. And I am just making an example here of a situation where i would take back salary and give up picks, because IM getting back lottery picks and two later round choices. To take on 25mm, thats a reasonable cost.


If were talking a guy liek KG, where I KNOW there will be a difference, thats a different story--to me lamar odom is nOT a difference maker--proven in LA this year!

Posted by Rich:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Rich:

I'm tired of solving another team's cap problems. It's time to trade players for expiring contracts instead of trading players with expiring contracts.

Odom doesn't put this team on track for a title.

[Edited by - Rich on 05/15/2005 22:12:03]

thats the problem. We would all love to trade Marbury's hindering $22mil a year contract and have a shot at Greg Ogden next year. Its the only way we're going to get a championship calibur dominant Center.

This organization should realize that the reason they were contenders every single year was because they landed Ewing with the #1 pick. But you have to face reality, if you don't then might as well root for another team. This is the Knicks way. At least for as long as Dolan is the owner.

This team needs a Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron in the worst way. We're not getting a bigman or immortal player with the 8th frickin pick!So we have to take the best player available regardless of his size

Actually we would not all love that, speak for yourself.

Well said.

Isiah can do no wrong in your eyes, huh?

Nope; I've criticized plenty of his decisions already. I've said countless times that I agree with the MAJORITY (but not all) of his decisions. I was merely complimenting Killa for a good post. He's one of the top posters here.
Isiah can do no right in your eyes, right?

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/16/2005 18:30:18]

Posted by Rich:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Rich:

I'm tired of solving another team's cap problems. It's time to trade players for expiring contracts instead of trading players with expiring contracts.

Odom doesn't put this team on track for a title.

[Edited by - Rich on 05/15/2005 22:12:03]

thats the problem. We would all love to trade Marbury's hindering $22mil a year contract and have a shot at Greg Ogden next year. Its the only way we're going to get a championship calibur dominant Center.

This organization should realize that the reason they were contenders every single year was because they landed Ewing with the #1 pick. But you have to face reality, if you don't then might as well root for another team. This is the Knicks way. At least for as long as Dolan is the owner.

This team needs a Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron in the worst way. We're not getting a bigman or immortal player with the 8th frickin pick!So we have to take the best player available regardless of his size

Actually we would not all love that, speak for yourself.

Well said.

Isiah can do no wrong in your eyes, huh?

Nope; I've criticized plenty of his decisions already. I've said countless times that I agree with the MAJORITY (but not all) of his decisions. I was merely complimenting Killa for a good post. He's one of the top posters here.
Isiah can do no right in your eyes, right?

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/16/2005 18:30:18]

How can anyone who doesn't want to take the necessary steps to build a legitimate championship contender be a top poster?[Edited by - Rich on 05/16/2005 19:06:39]

Just because killa doesn't share *your* vision on how build a contender, doesn't mean his vision is wrong or even inferior to yours. It would certainly be nice to get the #3 pick like you mentioned, but it's a myth to think that getting a top 3 pick is the only way build a team

Posted by Bonn1997:
Just because killa doesn't share *your* vision on how build a contender, doesn't mean his vision is wrong or even inferior to yours. It would certainly be nice to get the #3 pick like you mentioned, but it's a myth to think that getting a top 3 pick is the only way build a team

I couldn't have said it beter myself.

Rich-
I think your plan is extremely optimistic, and the only team in the league with a title shot for 5 to 7 years is the Spurs and they have Tim Duncan. A #1 pick isn't a guarantee of a Tim Duncan. Kenyon, Kwame, and Glenn Robinson were all #1 picks, but my real point is, there isn't a Tim Duncan in the draft every year, and no Amare aint no damn Tim Duncan, not even close.

A window of 3 years seems more realistic because you will almost always lose good players to free agency every 3 - 5 years or injuries or something. Phoenix will quite possibly lose Joe Johnson and Nash is already over 30 and has a few more 'mvp' type years in him.

I just used them as an example, but I don't see any other team with a 5-7 year window, I don't think its realistic. Not even Washington, Denver, or Chicago, because they are certain to lose key players when rookie contracts expire.

We are 2-3 pieces away from creating a 2 year windown imo. MArbs has about 3-5 high quality years left, depending on his health,so if we can add a good low post presence (who plays good d) and an atheletic rebounder/defender in the forntcourt too (who doesn't have to be skilleed), I think we can create a window for ourselves.

But right now there are many uncertainties.
Who will be our coach?
Who will we draft?
Will they be good and if so how long will it take them?
What hapens with our expiring contracts?
Will H20 retire or actually play 20 meaningful games again?
Will Crawford figure what kind of playe he is going to be in the league?
Will Ariza develop his handle and a reliable jumpshot off the dribble?
Will Ariza become our Tayshaun Prince lock down perimeter defender?
Is Jackie Butler going to be a good/decent NBA big?

All of these are questions that determine our outcome.

I would say we need a whole new frontcourt and that could change things drasticly and fantasticly (a lil walt Clyde for ya). how do we do that, and with what players? I have spent an obsene amount of time trying to figure that out. I should be getting paid for it. There's no way to tell and I don't think stinking it up for the next couple of years is the right way to do it. i certainly don't want to have to see it. Even if Zeke doesn't do everyting right we should be a much better team if we just have good coaching and a good draft. But I think the biggest difference between us is that I see many bright possibilities where it is all doom and gloom with you.