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"Don't Call It A Comeback" - Watch out for Sweetney next year.
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Bonn1997
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5/16/2005  2:04 PM
Every possession MS runs hard down the floor and fights in the post. He establishes good position and has to step out because the guards dont feed the ball in the post unless Herb is screaming for them to.

What his one skill above all else? Whats the one thing more than anything else Aguire works with him on? Low post scoring. And the guy doesnt get touches, and STILL draws doubles.

The guy is a scorer in the post. Scorers need touches.
Just to add to the last reply...It's nice that Mike can get great position down low, but I'm not overly impressed with that alone. *ANY* strong PF/C can. Robert Tractor Traylor is able to get outstanding position down low. It's just not particularly impressive if you can't do anything once you get that position. If he's able to make huge changes, then he'll be able to take advantage of the fact that he has a natural ability to get position and you'll be able to run plays through him. In the meantime, though, all it does is put him in nice position for rebounds or to receive passes from Marbury.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/16/2005 14:07:20]
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Marv
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5/16/2005  3:07 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Every possession MS runs hard down the floor and fights in the post. He establishes good position and has to step out because the guards dont feed the ball in the post unless Herb is screaming for them to.

What his one skill above all else? Whats the one thing more than anything else Aguire works with him on? Low post scoring. And the guy doesnt get touches, and STILL draws doubles.

The guy is a scorer in the post. Scorers need touches.
Just to add to the last reply...It's nice that Mike can get great position down low, but I'm not overly impressed with that alone. *ANY* strong PF/C can. Robert Tractor Traylor is able to get outstanding position down low. It's just not particularly impressive if you can't do anything once you get that position. If he's able to make huge changes, then he'll be able to take advantage of the fact that he has a natural ability to get position and you'll be able to run plays through him. In the meantime, though, all it does is put him in nice position for rebounds or to receive passes from Marbury.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/16/2005 14:07:20]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I find him to be very effective when he does get the ball on the blocks - he either scores, goes to the line or follows his shot effectively for offensive rebounds and putbacks. You don't see him as being effective in this? I really see the problem being that they don't go to him there.
Bonn1997
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5/16/2005  3:11 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Every possession MS runs hard down the floor and fights in the post. He establishes good position and has to step out because the guards dont feed the ball in the post unless Herb is screaming for them to.

What his one skill above all else? Whats the one thing more than anything else Aguire works with him on? Low post scoring. And the guy doesnt get touches, and STILL draws doubles.

The guy is a scorer in the post. Scorers need touches.
Just to add to the last reply...It's nice that Mike can get great position down low, but I'm not overly impressed with that alone. *ANY* strong PF/C can. Robert Tractor Traylor is able to get outstanding position down low. It's just not particularly impressive if you can't do anything once you get that position. If he's able to make huge changes, then he'll be able to take advantage of the fact that he has a natural ability to get position and you'll be able to run plays through him. In the meantime, though, all it does is put him in nice position for rebounds or to receive passes from Marbury.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/16/2005 14:07:20]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I find him to be very effective when he does get the ball on the blocks - he either scores, goes to the line or follows his shot effectively for offensive rebounds and putbacks. You don't see him as being effective in this? I really see the problem being that they don't go to him there.
He's effective when someone else (usually Marbury) creates for him, in which case he scores or gets to the line like you said. He can't create shots for himself, though, which significantly limits his game (and that of many other strong PFs who can get position at will but can't create for themselves like Tractor). That's what I meant by the last sentence of the previous post. I just didn't take the time to go into much detail.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/16/2005 15:13:54]
Allanfan20
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5/16/2005  3:39 PM
In the meantime, though, all it does is put him in nice position for rebounds or to receive passes from Marbury.

Maybe I'm crazy for thinking something like this, but isn't getting in position to grab rebounds and catch passes from Stephon Marbury, ohhhhhhh, an excellent thing? I mean, afterall, Sweetney is a very good offensive rebounder, draws fouls like you can't imagine, and has great hands. Hmmmmm, a young player who puts himself in a position to make good things happen, and give your best player an option to look for. I'll take that any day of the week.

Bonn, there is no denying that Sweetney needs to lose the gut. But there is also no denying that we need to run the offense through Sweetney a little more.

On a side note, it would be a really nice thing if he became a valueable 6th man. I'll take that too.

My criticism against him is he needs to work on his foul proneness and needs to move his feet more on defense, especially the help. Hopefully, that comes with the weight loss.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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5/16/2005  6:11 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
In the meantime, though, all it does is put him in nice position for rebounds or to receive passes from Marbury.

Maybe I'm crazy for thinking something like this, but isn't getting in position to grab rebounds and catch passes from Stephon Marbury, ohhhhhhh, an excellent thing? I mean, afterall, Sweetney is a very good offensive rebounder, draws fouls like you can't imagine, and has great hands.
Maybe I've been unclear. Yes, that IS a very good skill. That alone is enough to make him a solid role player off the bench but NOT a player you can run the offense through.
gunsnewing
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5/16/2005  6:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:

how many coaching and roster changes has MS seen since he's been here? This is just another reason why this is such a lousy place for young players. Teams that are good at developing young players have a consistant model, a consistant approach, a system and young guys are allowed to make mistakes.

3 different coaches, 2 staffs and 25 different teammates in 2 years doesnt help young players progress. All that and he still gives you 8.4/5.4/53% and 2nd on the team in FT attempts.

I thought all things considered Mike showed some good things to build on. He camps out under the basket, draws contact, is a good passer out of the post and can push bigger guys away from the basket, and score on bigger guys as well.

I agree and the main reason was not only the very few minutes he got but mostly the fact that Marbury did not feature him in the post. He had to score on his own for the most part and still lead all 2nd yr rookies in FG%. Late in the season Marbury started looking for Sweetney inside and he put up big numbers but it was too late to start winning and ruining our lottery position!

We really need a coach who has a clue!
Bonn1997
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5/16/2005  7:24 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by fishmike:

how many coaching and roster changes has MS seen since he's been here? This is just another reason why this is such a lousy place for young players. Teams that are good at developing young players have a consistant model, a consistant approach, a system and young guys are allowed to make mistakes.

3 different coaches, 2 staffs and 25 different teammates in 2 years doesnt help young players progress. All that and he still gives you 8.4/5.4/53% and 2nd on the team in FT attempts.

I thought all things considered Mike showed some good things to build on. He camps out under the basket, draws contact, is a good passer out of the post and can push bigger guys away from the basket, and score on bigger guys as well.

I agree and the main reason was not only the very few minutes he got but mostly the fact that Marbury did not feature him in the post. He had to score on his own for the most part and still lead all 2nd yr rookies in FG%. Late in the season Marbury started looking for Sweetney inside and he put up big numbers but it was too late to start winning and ruining our lottery position!

We really need a coach who has a clue!
Actually, I think the reason they didn't feature Sweetney down low was that he can't thus far create his own shot against average starting PFs in the league. First, On the rare occasions that they did feature him, he usually put up low percentage shots. Often he had a low release point and got blocked or settled for fade-away shots. Second, my guess is that they've tried to feature him down low in practices and he hasn't been able to much against Kurt or JYD.
knicks1248
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5/16/2005  11:48 PM
Well he's in the final year of his three year guaranty contract. Your 3rd year in the league usually indicates just how good a player will really be. He simply has to have some 30 and 15 nights to turn heads, other wise then that he's trade bait going into year 4. And honestly, I would trade him if the right deal presents it self.
ES
diderotn
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5/17/2005  12:04 AM
he would have to become a permanent starter for him to show what he can really do. Kurt has to go for that to happen.
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Ira
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5/17/2005  10:25 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

[
But what if the Knicks can get Taft in this draft? Taft is everything that Sweetney isn't. It would be nice to keep both.....but what about KT, Mo, Malik and JYD?



Taft scored 13 points and 7.5 rebounds. He could end up being the biggest bust in this draft.
fishmike
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5/17/2005  10:40 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by fishmike:

how many coaching and roster changes has MS seen since he's been here? This is just another reason why this is such a lousy place for young players. Teams that are good at developing young players have a consistant model, a consistant approach, a system and young guys are allowed to make mistakes.

3 different coaches, 2 staffs and 25 different teammates in 2 years doesnt help young players progress. All that and he still gives you 8.4/5.4/53% and 2nd on the team in FT attempts.

I thought all things considered Mike showed some good things to build on. He camps out under the basket, draws contact, is a good passer out of the post and can push bigger guys away from the basket, and score on bigger guys as well.

I agree and the main reason was not only the very few minutes he got but mostly the fact that Marbury did not feature him in the post. He had to score on his own for the most part and still lead all 2nd yr rookies in FG%. Late in the season Marbury started looking for Sweetney inside and he put up big numbers but it was too late to start winning and ruining our lottery position!

We really need a coach who has a clue!
I was weird... we saw him have solid scoring games against bigger players, and most if it he created himself. Just dump the ball into him and he some nice spin moves, up and unders and baseline drives, much like he showed at GTown. The Indiana game sticks out in my mind above all others.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3712/gamelog
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Nalod
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5/17/2005  10:55 AM
Can't create his own shot? Thats nuts, all low post players have to be fed the ball. He can back just about anyone back in, has a turnaround jumper, and has strong hands.

HIs wingspan and strenth makes getting the ball a bit easy. Its very hard to get the ball down low, that is way underrated. He INHALES the ball when it is near, grabs rebounds, and is excellent on the offensive boards.

He needs to run more and set up earlier, be more selective on his turnaround jumper, not take it so far, and stop popping out and reaching in on the perimeter defensive effort.

Traylor actually has a very good game on the perimeter and can face the basket. IN a way they are very different players despite their physical similarities.
Bonn1997
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5/17/2005  12:23 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Can't create his own shot? Thats nuts, all low post players have to be fed the ball.
I was talking about creating his own shot once he's given the ball. His shots are usually created by Marbury or by getting an offensive rebound. You can't just dump the ball to him and ask him to create a good shot in the low post. On occasions, especially against bad defenders, he's done this, but so has Kurt Thomas on occasions. He has a ton of things to work on before you can call him a PF who can create his own shot in the paint dependably. In the meantime he's just an adequate sixth man who's progressing more slowly than I had hoped when we drafted him at #9.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05/17/2005 13:05:56]
"Don't Call It A Comeback" - Watch out for Sweetney next year.

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