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this thing that the knicks are somehow rebuilding and getting younger
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Bonn1997
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5/13/2005  9:32 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

whats wrong with winning another 31 games? So long as Isiah drafts well thats fine with me.
This year, we have a 30 win season and you declare Isiah a "disaster" (with no mention of it being okay if the draft is good) but if it happens again, next time you'll be fine with it?

It depends on how we win 30 games

if we trade our lotto pick and penny and get back some overpriced veteren-past-their-prime-one-time-former-all-stars and have a salary of $120mill next year, then failure.

But, if we keep our picks and play them and develop the likes of ariza, sweets and butler, then 30 wins is fine.
Sounds reasonable to me. Isiah already has taken the latter approach by obtaining extra draft picks and playing young guys like Crawford, Ariza, and Sweetney
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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5/13/2005  9:46 AM
because it was a disaster. We added what? Another $75mm in future payroll? We were a veteran team with a $100mm + payroll, a veteran coach, ect ect

When you make the playoffs, already have the highest payroll in the league, increase that payroll and use your entire MLE to sign another veteran player, then win 33 games yes its a disaster. Try not to be such a homer. The reason it would be good (again) is because what this team needs is thge kind of change that only huge losing can bring and lottery talent that only losing can bring.

Now we probably still havent learned and when we trade Penny and the #8 pick for Mike Finely you will think its good because he had some great games against the Suns in the playoffs. But so long as we draft Julius Hodge at #30 and add to our "young core" its all good right?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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5/13/2005  10:04 AM
Posted by fishmike:

because it was a disaster. We added what? Another $75mm in future payroll? We were a veteran team with a $100mm + payroll, a veteran coach, ect ect

When you make the playoffs, already have the highest payroll in the league, increase that payroll and use your entire MLE to sign another veteran player, then win 33 games yes its a disaster. Try not to be such a homer. The reason it would be good (again) is because what this team needs is thge kind of change that only huge losing can bring and lottery talent that only losing can bring.

Now we probably still havent learned and when we trade Penny and the #8 pick for Mike Finely you will think its good because he had some great games against the Suns in the playoffs. But so long as we draft Julius Hodge at #30 and add to our "young core" its all good right?


Id be happy with a lot of scenarios, but I just feel we are headed for something like BIG Z and someone for pick 8. We traded for two older guys who make a LOT of money at the trade deadline, you think that pick 30 is going to change the disposition of the team? Maybe we can get a nice role player like little NATE, or someone fallas to us like McCants who turns out to be lotto material.

RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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5/13/2005  10:26 AM
Briggs, thats a great scenario (regarding getting lucky with #30) but that should just be a bonus, not the plan. We arent building anything, just patching together a very expensive boat that sinks at the first bit of choppy water.

I can see management's vision:
Marbury
Finely
TT
KT
Big Z
bench: Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney, JYD, Mo T, etc
Hey.. thats not a bad team. Except the whole SL are all on the downside of their career, the payrolll will be over $110mm. We might even make the playoffs and Bonn will hail Isiah and thank god the days of Chaney and Layden are over. And 2 years from now when they are all breaking down we can trade their expiring contracts for more guys just like them (throw in a pick or two to get it done)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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5/13/2005  11:44 AM
Fish! comeon my brother......Are you insane???? Finley, TT and KT???


Briggs, thats a great scenario (regarding getting lucky with #30) but that should just be a bonus, not the plan. We arent building anything, just patching together a very expensive boat that sinks at the first bit of choppy water.
I can see management's vision:
Marbury
Finely
TT
KT
Big Z
bench: Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney, JYD, Mo T, etc
Hey.. thats not a bad team. Except the whole SL are all on the downside of their career, the payrolll will be over $110mm. We might even make the playoffs and Bonn will hail Isiah and thank god the days of Chaney and Layden are over. And 2 years from now when they are all breaking down we can trade their expiring contracts for more guys just like them (throw in a pick or two to get it done)
The true Knickabocker..........
MS
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5/13/2005  12:47 PM
We could trade Kurt Thomas and the number 8, for Nene, Voshon, pick 20, 22, perhaps then package those picks and move up, while adding a Nene, & Kwame with the Mid-level
nyk4ever
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5/13/2005  12:48 PM
I honestly don't get this idea that Isiah is going to trade our pick for an older player on the downside of his career? Layden did this but since Isiah has been here has added nothing but YOUNG players minus Mo T who *can* qualify as young in some instances, its not like he's 33 he's still 28. I think Isiah is going to use the 3 draft picks that he has to the Knicks adavantage and pick up some quality young players with them. This idea that all he does is get older when in reality all he has done is acquired Jamal(25), Reezy(19), Butler(20), TT(27 when he acquired him) MoT(28). I guess you guys are basing this all on JYD who was required to come along in the Jamal deal and Malik Rose who is more then a good RolePlayer in the NBA and EVERY team needs a winner/roleplayer like Malik on their roster.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Nalod
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5/13/2005  12:58 PM
We must not confuse activity with improvement, and we must not confuse getting younger is getting better. We can't confuse getting atletic, without realizing we are shrinking.

Butler, sweets, trevor, and craw is younger, but we not talking a blue chip crowd here. We got upside, but we got risk.

We cannot confuse enthusiasm with reality.

PHuching heavy, man!
Pharzeone
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5/13/2005  1:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

because it was a disaster. We added what? Another $75mm in future payroll? We were a veteran team with a $100mm + payroll, a veteran coach, ect ect

When you make the playoffs, already have the highest payroll in the league, increase that payroll and use your entire MLE to sign another veteran player, then win 33 games yes its a disaster. Try not to be such a homer. The reason it would be good (again) is because what this team needs is thge kind of change that only huge losing can bring and lottery talent that only losing can bring.

Now we probably still havent learned and when we trade Penny and the #8 pick for Mike Finely you will think its good because he had some great games against the Suns in the playoffs. But so long as we draft Julius Hodge at #30 and add to our "young core" its all good right?


Id be happy with a lot of scenarios, but I just feel we are headed for something like BIG Z and someone for pick 8. We traded for two older guys who make a LOT of money at the trade deadline, you think that pick 30 is going to change the disposition of the team? Maybe we can get a nice role player like little NATE, or someone fallas to us like McCants who turns out to be lotto material.
Briggs didn't you want to trade pick 8 for Darko Milicic? Hey I am all for getting younger but I want young guys who can exactly play the game.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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5/13/2005  1:21 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

because it was a disaster. We added what? Another $75mm in future payroll? We were a veteran team with a $100mm + payroll, a veteran coach, ect ect

When you make the playoffs, already have the highest payroll in the league, increase that payroll and use your entire MLE to sign another veteran player, then win 33 games yes its a disaster. Try not to be such a homer. The reason it would be good (again) is because what this team needs is thge kind of change that only huge losing can bring and lottery talent that only losing can bring.

Now we probably still havent learned and when we trade Penny and the #8 pick for Mike Finely you will think its good because he had some great games against the Suns in the playoffs. But so long as we draft Julius Hodge at #30 and add to our "young core" its all good right?


Id be happy with a lot of scenarios, but I just feel we are headed for something like BIG Z and someone for pick 8. We traded for two older guys who make a LOT of money at the trade deadline, you think that pick 30 is going to change the disposition of the team? Maybe we can get a nice role player like little NATE, or someone fallas to us like McCants who turns out to be lotto material.
Briggs didn't you want to trade pick 8 for Darko Milicic? Hey I am all for getting younger but I want young guys who can exactly play the game.

Darko for pick 8? Where do I sign?
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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5/13/2005  1:50 PM
I would sign off on that too. I love Taft and Greene and all those guys that could be available at pick8 but say what you want about Darko, the kid was picked #2 for a reason and he has some game. The risk-reward with acquiring Darko almost has no ceiling for the Knicks. Too bad Dumars isn't going to give up on him yet
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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this thing that the knicks are somehow rebuilding and getting younger
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