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P.J carlesimo--over-rated retread
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BigAppleStar3
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5/12/2005  10:47 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:
Posted by BRIGGS:

6 years in the NBA
never won 50 games
never won 1 playoff round
team devensive avg for the 6 years--- a putrid 102.3 points a game--thats right folks, in an era where defense was the way of the west,-Mr Carlesimo's teams were near dead last in defensive stats Y-Y
Teams never overacheived, but rather the opposite
Had run ins with multiple players

There is 0 evidence that he can get a team to play defense. he had the talent, especially in Portland to play good D, he had size speed and skill player, but all 3 years =101.6 pts per game


Sitting next to a great coach doesn't make you a great coach. It was an awful decision to hire and pay Lennie Wilkens out the kazoo, and it will be an AWFUL decision to hire this schmuck.

Rick Carlisle is a good coach--his top assitant Oneal goes to Toronto and it's a disaster.

the Knicks are retreads, we are the retread capital of the nBA--we werent--we made great choices in the 90s with coaches and players. We were willing to take chances, and unlike these schmuch knicks, guys like John Starks, Anthony Bonner, Anthony Mason were picked out of the gutter and given chances to succeed. this POS team picks up Jackie Butler and gives him .02 seconds while we were 20 games out. Like I had to see KT 40 minutes a night to the death?

We hold a 2-1 advantage on almost every team in the league regarding salary and we win 30 games.


I know isiah is probably chomping at the bit to trade our picks for retreads--hey maybe an antonie walker[we always need another PF right?, oir perhaps a Mike Finley--
Heck, we made the Pheonix Suns stars, we helped the Chicago Bulls get back to winning, we added pieces to the Heat free of charge. We are all over the playoffs and going deep. I would say we are a top 3 reason why Pheonix is going to win it!

But all this time, isiah is in his office pondering a retread, another losing retread to take the place of a coach who was done.


Is it that hard to ask for fresh ideas here, to find a style of play, bring in the players and coaches who can implement them and let it go? thats how you win!

P.J. Carlesimo won 49 games in 1997 with Portland. And they were Top 10 defensively 3/4 years. Don't take his stint at Golden State too seriously. Not even Red Holzman could win there. P.J. is a good coach and a perfect fit imo.


They were *NOT* top 10 defensively, they were bottom 7 defensively with Portland


94==opp102.6
95= 101.0
96= 100.5
-------------
101 .35 per game

and they had awesome talent to play D but they didnt do it!
also, he didnt just have one flair up with Sprewell, it was a consistent foul attitude displayed the whole 6 years which tells you it's a common trait from him.

Just for reference, Jeff Van Gundy coached teams from 1995 to present, highest total avg defensively for a full year was 97 points, with an average of 95.7 and and went into the second round or more 5 times. Also has proved to be a high character, player friendly coach.

You get what you pay for

http://www.basketballreference.com/coaches/coachpage.htm?coachid=VANGUJE01


http://www.basketballreference.com/coaches/coachpage.htm?coachid=CARLEPJ01

Misread those stats ... thanks for the correction. But I still like P.J. Carlesimo over everyone not named Phil Jackson or Larry Brown. This roster of lazy unmotivated losers need a disciplinarian who doesn't take crap. The worst thing we can do is hire a player friendly coach. This team led by Stephon Marbury has proven they cannot be trusted. They need a coach to push them. P.J. will be very motivated and will push this team.
AUTOADVERT
franco12
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5/12/2005  11:31 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Why Herb? N.Y. desperately needs a change of philosophy, and we can't afford to mess around. We need a coach with new ideas to get us out of our dilemmas. I would much rather have Isiah as the head coach, but he is to chicken to do both job. We have been bad for too long, so something has to give.

Posted by franco12:

I posted this in the coaches sticky thread above- unless we get Phil Jackson, just keep Herb and see what he can do- herb at least has a shot of becoming a good coach- whereas the likes of silas & pj are known quantities and not likely to become great.

Its this attitude of drastic & constant change that has us where we are.

we need to just let things develop.

we need to get some more young talent and let them develop as a team.

I don't think Herb is any worse than any other name out there unless its Phil Jackson.

Now, if Phil goes to Sac town, I'm all for bringing in Adelman- he would be a good fit with our up tempo players.
Pharzeone
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5/12/2005  11:36 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Why Herb? N.Y. desperately needs a change of philosophy, and we can't afford to mess around. We need a coach with new ideas to get us out of our dilemmas. I would much rather have Isiah as the head coach, but he is to chicken to do both job. We have been bad for too long, so something has to give.

Posted by franco12:

I posted this in the coaches sticky thread above- unless we get Phil Jackson, just keep Herb and see what he can do- herb at least has a shot of becoming a good coach- whereas the likes of silas & pj are known quantities and not likely to become great.

I have to agree. Isiah would be a better choice than Herb, Silias or PJ. If it is goal to develop young talent than he has a decent track record. He needs to go out and acquire a top level assistant to help him or whatever new coach if it is not a respected name already. PJ would be bad not because of his coaching ability but the NY press will have a field day with him. I can see the inhouse fighting now. There are a couple of college guys I know that would like the opportunity, Paul Hewitt, despite what Tech thinks still wants to get into the NBA. More serious thought should have been given to Flip Saunders but I think his chances were also hurt with the Wally comments a couple of weeks ago.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
diderotn
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5/12/2005  11:43 AM
Forget about Flip for now, because he has been offered the Portland's job. If Isiah is really serious about bringing success back to N.Y. he needs to roll up his sleeves and coach this team. Adleman is big time coach on his own right. Although he doesn't teach defense, but wherever he has been, he has been successful. However, how well can he do under the microscope in N.Y? I still believe that Isiah should be our coach next season. Why not? especially if he acquire the players that he has covetted, Petro, Greene or even Illguskaus....
The true Knickabocker..........
BigAppleStar3
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5/12/2005  11:44 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by diderotn:

Why Herb? N.Y. desperately needs a change of philosophy, and we can't afford to mess around. We need a coach with new ideas to get us out of our dilemmas. I would much rather have Isiah as the head coach, but he is to chicken to do both job. We have been bad for too long, so something has to give.

Posted by franco12:

I posted this in the coaches sticky thread above- unless we get Phil Jackson, just keep Herb and see what he can do- herb at least has a shot of becoming a good coach- whereas the likes of silas & pj are known quantities and not likely to become great.

Its this attitude of drastic & constant change that has us where we are.

we need to just let things develop.

we need to get some more young talent and let them develop as a team.

I don't think Herb is any worse than any other name out there unless its Phil Jackson.

Now, if Phil goes to Sac town, I'm all for bringing in Adelman- he would be a good fit with our up tempo players.

If the goal is too develope young talent (which it isn't, see the trades for Malik Rose and Mo' Taylor. We are re-tooling and in win-now mode), Herb Williams is the LAST coach you should want. Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney didn't play, even when the season was over and we had no shot at making the Playoffs. We could get lucky and end up with Andrew Bogut and I bet you Herb burries him behind Rose and Mo' on the bench. When you're a 33 win team, you NEED change. Staying the same and hoping the team developes or Herb grows a brain is not going to work.
diderotn
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5/12/2005  11:51 AM
I totally agree with you


Posted by BigAppleStar3:

If the goal is too develope young talent (which it isn't, see the trades for Malik Rose and Mo' Taylor. We are re-tooling and in win-now mode), Herb Williams is the LAST coach you should want. Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney didn't play, even when the season was over and we had no shot at making the Playoffs. We could get lucky and end up with Andrew Bogut and I bet you Herb burries him behind Rose and Mo' on the bench. When you're a 33 win team, you NEED change. Staying the same and hoping the team developes or Herb grows a brain is not going to work.
The true Knickabocker..........
BRIGGS
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5/12/2005  1:02 PM
Posted by BigAppleStar3:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by diderotn:

Why Herb? N.Y. desperately needs a change of philosophy, and we can't afford to mess around. We need a coach with new ideas to get us out of our dilemmas. I would much rather have Isiah as the head coach, but he is to chicken to do both job. We have been bad for too long, so something has to give.

Posted by franco12:

I posted this in the coaches sticky thread above- unless we get Phil Jackson, just keep Herb and see what he can do- herb at least has a shot of becoming a good coach- whereas the likes of silas & pj are known quantities and not likely to become great.

Its this attitude of drastic & constant change that has us where we are.

we need to just let things develop.

we need to get some more young talent and let them develop as a team.

I don't think Herb is any worse than any other name out there unless its Phil Jackson.

Now, if Phil goes to Sac town, I'm all for bringing in Adelman- he would be a good fit with our up tempo players.

If the goal is too develope young talent (which it isn't, see the trades for Malik Rose and Mo' Taylor. We are re-tooling and in win-now mode), Herb Williams is the LAST coach you should want. Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney didn't play, even when the season was over and we had no shot at making the Playoffs. We could get lucky and end up with Andrew Bogut and I bet you Herb burries him behind Rose and Mo' on the bench. When you're a 33 win team, you NEED change. Staying the same and hoping the team developes or Herb grows a brain is not going to work.


I agree,at first, it appeared that Herb would be reasonable to give a chance, but Im fully against Herb 100%. That doesnt mean give PJ 5mm per year to come in because someone thinks he's a disciplanarian. It sounds more like he is an arsehole to me. If thats the case, go hire some 400 pound female, they seem to be solid disciplinarian's.

I liked the name Phil Martelli, I like his style of play--he's proven he produces excellent defensive teams, his players love him, hes tough young, so what he hasnt been in the nBA. Its funny how Montgomery was going through a poor year until Baron Davis came into town. And all of a sudden they go 21-8?

But like you said, the knicks will continue with this retreading attempt to win now--yes 1 more vet will put them over the hump--heck we tried Baker Tim Thomas Nazr and now we will move on to the antonie walkers of the world, and the team will still be magnificently flawed.

you know what, I ended uop watching Tau-Maccabi like 5 times because I kept looking at Splitter real closely. You know sometimes you see things on first run that dont catch your eye, then I sat up late last night watching and rewindingwatching and rewininding and came away with the believe that I think we SHOULD draft Tiago Splitter, and that my intial assessment was flawed. The guy is taller than 7 feet, he plays EXCELLENT D, he is agile, quick and will be a very good rebounder in this league. Right now I would compare him to a Jeff Foster[maybe two inches taller?] who looks like he has the potnetial to be a good offensive player as well. Just the subtlies I looked at.

Thats why I went and looked at the whole scenario with PJ. I never heard guys like Buck Williams call Joe torre a jerk, which would be paramount to Jeter calling you a jerk. Have you ever listened to Buck Williams, he's a very classy, intelligent guy. Forget Sprewell, who cares, but when Buck called him out, sorry, to me he's had it as far as Im concenrned, no more 5mm $ contracts for this guy.
RIP Crushalot😞
tomverve
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5/12/2005  1:39 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

They were *NOT* top 10 defensively, they were bottom 7 defensively with Portland

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of PJ, but let's at least get our facts straight.

1995 Portland Trail Blazers
Coached by P.J. Carlesimo (44-38)
Efficiency: Offense - 106.0 (12th out of 27), Defense - 102.6 (7th out of 27), League Efficiency - 105.3

1996 Portland Trail Blazers
Coached by P.J. Carlesimo (44-38)
Efficiency: Offense - 102.8 (21st out of 29), Defense - 101.0 (5th out of 29), League Efficiency - 104.7

1997 Portland Trail Blazers
Coached by P.J. Carlesimo (49-33)
Efficiency: Offense - 104.6 (10th out of 29), Defense - 100.5 (7th out of 29), League Efficiency - 103.7

PJ had the Blazers playing top 7 defense in all 3 years at Portland. In 96 they were the 5th best defensive team in the league. See for yourself: http://basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/
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tomverve
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5/12/2005  1:52 PM
And just to remove any semblence of a doubt, check here:
http://basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996.html

Scroll down to Team Statistics -> Opponent Statistics. You clearly see the Blazers ranked 5th in defensive efficiency (PPG allowed per 100 possessions), behind only the Bulls, Sonics, Knicks, and Spurs.

[Edited by - tomverve on 05/12/2005 13:56:00]
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fishmike
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5/12/2005  1:55 PM
god this is the last guy we need
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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5/12/2005  2:07 PM
I too think the world of Buck. But how many years ago was that comment made?
ANd under what context was the comment made?
And is Buck at no fault given the circumstances.

What does Timmy say about him? That holds more weight.

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5/12/2005  3:41 PM
Posted by tomverve:

And just to remove any semblence of a doubt, check here:
http://basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996.html

Scroll down to Team Statistics -> Opponent Statistics. You clearly see the Blazers ranked 5th in defensive efficiency (PPG allowed per 100 possessions), behind only the Bulls, Sonics, Knicks, and Spurs.

[Edited by - tomverve on 05/12/2005 13:56:00]
That doesn't sound too bad at all to me.
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5/12/2005  6:10 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by tomverve:

And just to remove any semblence of a doubt, check here:
http://basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996.html

Scroll down to Team Statistics -> Opponent Statistics. You clearly see the Blazers ranked 5th in defensive efficiency (PPG allowed per 100 possessions), behind only the Bulls, Sonics, Knicks, and Spurs.

[Edited by - tomverve on 05/12/2005 13:56:00]
That doesn't sound too bad at all to me.

could it be that he had really good defensive players that year? It still doesn't mean he will win over 30games with the Knicks!
P.J carlesimo--over-rated retread

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