Posted by EnySpree:

I know exactly what type of player Bowen is.

Bowen is that kid that couldn't play but played with you only because you needed the extra man.

Bowen's in the NBA; i'm pretty sure he could play as a kid and wasn't the last one picked. Hes a tough defender, he can lockdown most 2's and 3's, so obviously people don't like him. he isn't dirty, hes tough and I honestly don't think what he did was intentional. I'd love to havea guy like Bowen on my team, the guy may foul hard but it's to send a message - he reminds me of the players we had a decade ago.

Posted by Masterplan:

i don't know, i feel like injuring someone on the other team in a playoff series is pretty lame. we hated jason collins for taking TT out, if one of our guys did something like that to really possibly change the outcome i think we'd know it was pretty messed up. did the classic knicks ever take jordan, reggie, zo out of a series with a hard foul or an underhanded play? not that i remember. if bowen intentionally hurt ray allen that makes him a punk.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 05/11/2005 19:43:40]

Hating Jason Collins was also ridiculus too! The Knicks fouled harder then that repeatedly when they were good. I think the Heat though Ward was trying to injure PJ Brown, and that Van Gundy shouldn't have been
biting at Mournings ankles. I think you could probably get a few dozen players complaining that Oak was trying to injure them. Mason, starks Xavier - you could probably find more complaints. Hey - you shouldn't be trying to injure someone - but who knows if someone is trying to injure someone or just playing hard. We gave the Knicks the benefit of the doubt for over a decade - now we've got a wimpy team and we're gonna whine...

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by nyballer:

Posted by EnySpree:

I know exactly what type of player Bowen is.

Bowen is that kid that couldn't play but played with you only because you needed the extra man.

Bowen's in the NBA; i'm pretty sure he could play as a kid and wasn't the last one picked. Hes a tough defender, he can lockdown most 2's and 3's, so obviously people don't like him. he isn't dirty, hes tough and I honestly don't think what he did was intentional. I'd love to havea guy like Bowen on my team, the guy may foul hard but it's to send a message - he reminds me of the players we had a decade ago.

He's definately a tough defender but watch his legs during this Seatle series. He's a trickster. He is good for throwing his legs in between the guy he is guarding. He does it after his man has a step on him. Or if it's a jumpshot he waits till the shooter is coming down to do it.....I'm telling you.....watch him he's a sneaky one.

I agree. He's sneaky. And dirty.

But an interesting question is this - would you like him and support him if he played like this for the Nnicks? My honest answer is yes. I would.

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by Marv:

I agree. He's sneaky. And dirty.

But an interesting question is this - would you like him and support him if he played like this for the Nnicks? My honest answer is yes. I would.

I couldn't root for him. He does stuff and then deny's it.

Our old Knicks used to get in your face if you didn't like it....but there is physical defense and then there is dirty defense. Artest is as tough as they come and everyone gives him his props. He plays real defense.

God bless Starks man.....he always guarded all the best players and the only person he ever had a big problem with was Reggie Miller.......Starks was getting it on in those trenches and never backed down from anything. If someone didn't like it like Reggie.......HEAD BUTT!!!!....thing about it no one ever accused Starks of being dirty. Not even Jordan. Starks would get killed by Jordan but will make Jordan work for all his points, clean.

YOu have a selective memory:

After talking up a storm about how wonderful he and his team is, Jordan has been reduced to vitriolic attacks on the Knicks' "dirty play." 1993

`When you play dirty - and they're a dirty bunch of guys - it was bound to happen,'' Brown said. ``He went after my knees. If he wants to play football, he can go back to Florida State.'' 5/1/97 - Talking about ward.

It harkens back to John Starks slamming Kenny Anderson in 1993 (I think anderson - broke his wrist on this play.)


In Wednesday's game, Knicks forward Charles Oakley nearly decapitated Heat guard Tim Hardaway on a pick.

Miller in book: Reggie thinks that the Knicks are the dirtiest team in the NBA

"After a while, you've got to take a stand," Mourning said. "L.J. crossed the line at the end. He threw the last cheap shot. Enough was enough.'

"Oakley is one of the dirtiest players in the league," Drexler said.

So YES the Knicks were considered dirty. (As is Artest and as Rodman was also - if you play tough defense - people are going to say you're dirty and they'll be right sometimes.) When the Knicks did it we were OK with it - we're suppose to be smart fans - not whiners. (By the way the fact that Jordan torched Starks and wasn't a whiner (only to refs) has more to do with Jordan not complaining about Starks then Starks "Clean Play".)

Posted by EnySpree:

Banging someone is one thing. That is apart of the game. Hard fouls ex.......Bowen doesn't do that. He is out there trying to trip guys to prevent them from driving. He also trys to cut guys legs out of after jumpshots.

No selective memory. I give the Pistons their credit too. They weren't dirty either. They just were physical and active defensively. Our Knicks were more about putting a body on someone. That's the way the game should be played.

Taking someone out low is exactly what PJ Brown was complaining that Ward did. Taking a player in the air down hard like starks did to Kenny and others and Oakley did hundreds of times - is as dangerous as tripping and I bet if I looked at enough old new reports I could find players accusing the Knicks of that too. The only difference I see is Bowen plays for another team.

I live in Ma. (grew up on LI) and I hate listening to Tommy H. call Celtics games because he whines about the Refs and the players on the other teams fouls and dirty play etc. When Boston Fans are losing it's the same thing. I like to think NY fans are better then that.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by EnySpree:

Banging someone is one thing. That is apart of the game. Hard fouls ex.......Bowen doesn't do that. He is out there trying to trip guys to prevent them from driving. He also trys to cut guys legs out of after jumpshots.

No selective memory. I give the Pistons their credit too. They weren't dirty either. They just were physical and active defensively. Our Knicks were more about putting a body on someone. That's the way the game should be played.

The pistons were like the gotdamned mafia! Are you serious? They would clothesline pippen, trip jordan as he drove to the lane, I mean, they really thugged them out. Thats what made Jordan put on those extrapounds of muscle and get really tough. They were being intimidated by the pistons physically. they were getting beaten up, I remember that very vividly, and i was a teenager who hated the bulls.

Killa, I have the same memories as you. Laimbeer was outright dirty. Same with Mahorn. Same with Rodman. Often the same with Salley. IT was famous for being dirty at guard.

Now having said all that I also have to say that I LOVED the Bad Boys, and true to my nature as a sick f***, one of the most joyous moments of my life was when Rodman threw Scottie "Headache" Pippen into the stands like Andre the Giant throwing the Iron Sheik ou of the ring!!!

I swear most of these ball players are divas. they need to go back to their roots, playing ball in the streets. You hardly hear somebody call foul. If you fall get ya ass up and keep on playing. You hurt ya ankle walk it off. Damn Allen , man up!!!