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We're tied with GSW and TOR but have an excellent shot at 7th...
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fishmike
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4/18/2005  2:40 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:

still shouldn't sell ourselves short since we can finish 7th but still get lucky in the lottery and land a top 5 pick.

The lotto doesn't work that way. only the first three picks are up for grabs. after the first three picks are determined by ping pong, the last ten picks in the lottery go according to record. So we can move up to the top 3 (I think we have a 12% chance to wind up in the top 3), or we pick 7.

Andrew, I don't think we can catch Milwaukee, but that would be a nice gift. But if Milwaukee wins, Toronto might pass us, so it's a double-edged sword.
you can move down though. If one of the teams 8-14 moves up into a top 3 it would likely bump us down a spot.

As for who we take no to Warrick w/ the lottery pick. If we trade down and get a couple picks in the 13-20 range different story, but Warrick with the #7 pick is suspect to me. It wouldnt kill me but I think we could do better.

Thing with Taft is while he's got upside I see him as a role player. A guy with good potential but nothing special like a Dampier, Swift or even KMart at best. Green strikes me as having bonafide superstar potential. In the Ray Allen, TMac, Kobe mold.

The Russian kid is a nice prospect also. Not a big euro fan but he did beat up on everyone his age at the jrs

Its hard for me to care right about now though, or have faith Isiah will do anything intellegent. I'm hoping.. just like I'm hoping for the #1 pick, but as far as good decisions I have very little to go on.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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diderotn
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4/18/2005  3:35 PM
If that young big Euro is still available, we can't afford to pass on him. He was trained by one of the best passing big man who has ever played the game (Sabonis), and most of all he is 7'4". Isiah would be a fool to pass on him....Between Green, Taft, and big Euro, I would pick big Euro. However, Portland may not let us do that.
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Andrew
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4/18/2005  9:54 PM
Damn...the bucks lost. 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th it is.
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crzymdups
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4/19/2005  12:43 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Damn...the bucks lost. 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th it is.

GSW beat the Lakers, making it very likely we finish "ahead" of them in the standings. So right now, it's looking like 8th at worst. We'd have to win the last two and have the Lakers lose their last game to make it a coin flip situation, which is unlikely. It's looking like 7, 8 at worst.

Root hard for Toronto to beat Milwaukee tomorrow fellas, that's a big game.
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MS
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4/19/2005  9:03 AM
Baron Davis is awesome and a lot more fun to watch than Marbury, its to bad we couldn't have brought him in and then sent marbury and crawford both packing this offseason.....

If Chris Mullin didn't sign Fischer and Foyle, and would just give up on Dunleavy that team would be very good, they may have the best backcourt in the NBA come next season, and Pietrus is going to be a star as well
Bonn1997
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4/19/2005  9:19 AM
Yeah Baron's a lot of fun to watch in street clothes for half the season every year
tomverve
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4/19/2005  9:20 AM
Posted by MS:

Baron Davis is awesome and a lot more fun to watch than Marbury, its to bad we couldn't have brought him in and then sent marbury and crawford both packing this offseason.....

Hang on, I'm not done laughing yet.




...no, wait...




OK. phew.


You like to complain about Stephon Marbury, but then you go pining for Baron Davis? Do me a favor, put that at the top of every one of your posts from now on, to remind everyone of the validity of your opinions. Thanks.
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fishmike
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4/19/2005  9:40 AM
Baron and Marbury are interchangable

Both are lousy defenders
Both are great scorers. Marbury better at attacking the rim, Baron better at shooting.
Marbury is a better play maker, Baron is a better rebounder.
Marbury's teams havent reacted well to him on the court
Baron's teams have rallied around him.
Baron has injury issues
Marbury never misses games
Baron has had monster playoff series and advanced several times
Marbury never has

If Baron didnt have physical issues I would say he's simply better, but you cant ignore those question marks. Ive seen Baron and all his flaws play a huge roll on winning teams. I havent seen that from Marbury, and based on Isiah's job of surrounding him with talent my guess is the wait will continue.

I would hardly say Baron is more entertaining however.

[Edited by - fishmike on 04/19/2005 09:41:40]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tomverve
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4/19/2005  9:50 AM
Check your percentages. Marbury turned in a good shooting year, while Baron is still a chucker. In fact, this season he's been a worse chucker than even Jamal Crawford, shooting more attempts at a lower accuracy:

FGA - M
Marbury: 7.4 - 16.0 (46.2%)
Davis: 6.3 - 16.4 (38.4%)
Crawford: 6.1 - 15.5 (39.4%)

3PA - M
Marbury: 1.4 - 4.0 (35.7%)
Davis: 2.6 - 7.7 (33.0%)
Crawford: 2.6 - 7.3 (35.9%)

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think one could make a reasonable argument that they'd rather have Baron Davis than Marbury. But to flat out say "Marbury sucks" and then with the next breath say "Man, I wish we had Baron Davis"! wow. Just... wow.
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fishmike
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4/19/2005  10:03 AM
that doesnt mean much to me. Baron takes more jumpers and more bad shots, but he's still a better shooter. Marbury gets more shots in the paint and attacking the rim. He's just taking more high % shots. Barons a better shooter.

You cant argue that Baron's a chucker, but why then do his teammates react so favorably to him, while Marbury always rubbing guys the wrong way?

If I had to pick one I would take Marbury. Baron's physical stuff would be enough to scare me off.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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4/19/2005  10:09 AM
Posted by tomverve:

Check your percentages. Marbury turned in a good shooting year, while Baron is still a chucker. In fact, this season he's been a worse chucker than even Jamal Crawford, shooting more attempts at a lower accuracy:

FGA - M
Marbury: 7.4 - 16.0 (46.2%)
Davis: 6.3 - 16.4 (38.4%)
Crawford: 6.1 - 15.5 (39.4%)

3PA - M
Marbury: 1.4 - 4.0 (35.7%)
Davis: 2.6 - 7.7 (33.0%)
Crawford: 2.6 - 7.3 (35.9%)

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think one could make a reasonable argument that they'd rather have Baron Davis than Marbury. But to flat out say "Marbury sucks" and then with the next breath say "Man, I wish we had Baron Davis"! wow. Just... wow.

Are these numbers from this year? I think Baron has played, what, like twenty games all year.

If we hadn't had crawford, it might have been worth the risk of trading for baron- if we had got him as cheap as GS did.
crzymdups
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4/19/2005  11:07 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by tomverve:

Check your percentages. Marbury turned in a good shooting year, while Baron is still a chucker. In fact, this season he's been a worse chucker than even Jamal Crawford, shooting more attempts at a lower accuracy:

FGA - M
Marbury: 7.4 - 16.0 (46.2%)
Davis: 6.3 - 16.4 (38.4%)
Crawford: 6.1 - 15.5 (39.4%)

3PA - M
Marbury: 1.4 - 4.0 (35.7%)
Davis: 2.6 - 7.7 (33.0%)
Crawford: 2.6 - 7.3 (35.9%)

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think one could make a reasonable argument that they'd rather have Baron Davis than Marbury. But to flat out say "Marbury sucks" and then with the next breath say "Man, I wish we had Baron Davis"! wow. Just... wow.

Are these numbers from this year? I think Baron has played, what, like twenty games all year.

If we hadn't had crawford, it might have been worth the risk of trading for baron- if we had got him as cheap as GS did.

Baron shot just as badly last year. He hasn't shot above 40% since 02-03, when he only shot 41% and missed 32 games. Another thing about Davis' misses, is that he misses a lot of threes which lead to a lot of fast breaks for the other team. Marbury is far more durable and a much more efficient offensive player. Baron Davis is injury prone, but a far superior defensive player and rebounder.

The interesting thing is that Davis does seem to be far more likeable than Marbury. It's a shame. Marbury should be the much better player, but his lack of effort on D and the sour personality make it an argument.
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Killa4luv
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4/19/2005  11:23 AM
Allow me to take exception to a few of your comments although I don't totally disagree with that.
Posted by fishmike:

Baron and Marbury are interchangable

Both are lousy defenders
Both are great scorers. Marbury better at attacking the rim, Baron better at shooting.
Marbury is a better play maker, Baron is a better rebounder.
these things are far from equal, although I am clear you are not saying that, the way you you put these things together was like if you don't get one the other balances it out. I don't think anyone cares of their PG rebounds, you want your pg to be a better playmaker.
Baron has had monster playoff series and advanced several times
Marbury never has
In all of BD's trips to the playoffs, he was NOT the better player on his team. Mashburn was the best player on all of those teams. I am not trying to discredit him, but steph was only the #2 optiono on a team once and that was when he and KG were very young. BD inherited a team with very good veteran players, and balance at different positions.
If Baron didnt have physical issues I would say he's simply better, but you cant ignore those question marks. Ive seen Baron and all his flaws play a huge roll on winning teams. I havent seen that from Marbury, and based on Isiah's job of surrounding him with talent my guess is the wait will continue.

I would hardly say Baron is more entertaining however.
I disagree, I think Steph is the better all around better player. I also think BD is the more exciting player, did you see him dunk on Dikembe last year? It was really crazy!! BD dunks it like KJ used to!






[Edited by - Killa4luv on 04/19/2005 11:24:38]
tomverve
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4/19/2005  11:39 AM
Posted by fishmike:

that doesnt mean much to me. Baron takes more jumpers and more bad shots, but he's still a better shooter. Marbury gets more shots in the paint and attacking the rim. He's just taking more high % shots. Barons a better shooter.

Let's consult 82games.com before we make a definitive claim. 82games keeps track of eFG% on jump shots based on game logs, so we can isolate jumpers from driving attempts. Keep in mind that eFG% on jumpers includes both 3s and mid-to-long 2s in one stat, with each 3PM counting as 1.5 2PM, so a guy who shoots more 3s is going to have the advantage in this stat.

eFG% on jumpers (% of FGAs that are jumpers)

04/05
Marbury: 47.4% (64%)
Davis w/ Warriors: 44.7% (72%)
Davis w/ Hornets: 41.8% (74%)

03/04
Marbury w/ Knicks: 41.6% (68%)
Marbury w/ Suns: 42.2% (69%)
Davis: 42.8% (70%)

02/03
Marbury: 42.1% (63%)
Davis: 44.2% (69%)

So what we can take from this overall is that for the past 3 seasons, Davis takes more jumpers than Marbury, but not that many more. Davis had a slightly higher eFG% in 02/03, but he also averaged 2 3PM that season to Marbury's 1.1, skewing the eFG% slightly in his favor. In 03/04, their jump shooting numbers were basically identical. In 04/05, Marbury has been a much better jump shooter; Davis has pretty much maintained his shooting numbers from the past two years, while Marbury has significantly elevated his.

Conclusion: Marbury and Davis have had roughly equivalent jump shooting accuracy up til this season, where Marbury has become the much better jump shooter.
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TMS
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4/19/2005  1:02 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by franco12:

I'm not going to get that excited about picking 7 instead of 8 or 9.

We need some luck to get one of the top three spots. I'll get excited about that.

well, that's the sort of luck that turns franchises around. but for the next three days, setting ourselves up to be in the 7 spot instead of the 9 spot is critical.

agreed...it could mean all the difference between taking an Andre Iguodala over a Luke Jackson.
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We're tied with GSW and TOR but have an excellent shot at 7th...
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