If getting young talented players (Marbury at 26; Jamal at 24) and getting multiple first round draft picks means you don't have the future in mind, then I don't want someone who "does" have the future in mind by Briggs' and Fish's definitions.

I understand that Malik and Mo T are not young players but in a year or 2 when we can truly judge Isiah by the team thats out there, I think they will be key players off the bench on a extremely young athletic team that comprises of Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, our 3 picks from this year and even Sweetney if he's still around. Not bad if you ask me

Posted by nyk4ever:

I understand that Malik and Mo T are not young players but in a year or 2 when we can truly judge Isiah by the team thats out there, I think they will be key players off the bench on a extremely young athletic team that comprises of Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, our 3 picks from this year and even Sweetney if he's still around. Not bad if you ask me

Ditto. Isiah's in the very early stages of acquiring young players, especially since we didn't have many trade assets last summer (in contrast to this summer). Time will tell. I can't wait 'til this time next year. Maybe Fish and Briggs are right and you can fully judge a GM after 15 months and fully determine that he is a disaster. Maybe I was dead wrong in assuming any GM needed more than 15 months. I'm open to all possibilities and we'll see what happens.

Posted by fishmike:

I could believe that if this was any other team. This franchise has always done things to win now. Crawford and Marbury were to win now. JC filled an immediate need. IT kney Houston and Penny werent going to set us at sg/pg.

But he could have easily gotten a 30 year old SG with decent skills but now upside. I'm sure that's what Layden would have done. But instead he went with the young player with large upside who can have a role on the team for many future years. A blind man can see the difference!

Posted by fishmike:

I could believe that if this was any other team. This franchise has always done things to win now. Crawford and Marbury were to win now. JC filled an immediate need. IT kney Houston and Penny werent going to set us at sg/pg.

Nazr just didnt fit and it was obvious from Marbury's body language he hated playing with him.

This is not a young team. Getting Malik wasnt a case of showing a bunch of young guys like Bulls have how to win.

I like Malik... like him alot. He's got limited talent but contributes every minute because he's got a high BB IQ and he works hard. I like guys like that. So you have him.. whats that do w/ Sweetney, JYD, MO Taylor?

He got picks back because he had too.. NAzr was worth more. He should have gotten a #1 back w/ Mo Taylor, otherwise just passed on it. Instead we do Hou a favor.

See thats the difference between me and you Fish, I believe that Isiah knows he has this glut of PFs on the team and he obviously didn't do acquire them all thinking that this was going to be a championship calibur team. I think its becoming more and more clear that KT and Sweetney will both be gone this offseason and that the Knicks will get a PF/C with their lottery pick, that leaves 4 PFs. Then theres always the chance that maybe JYD gets traded or even Malik or Mo T. Im quite confident next year that the Knicks will have 3-4 PFs on the roster and one of them will be a lotterypick.

I agree with you about Mo Taylor, but I don't see it as the end of the world and now that Isiah has totally messed everything up. Do I wish that Isiah hadn't done that trade? Probably, but its not a huge deal, Mo T is worth more to any basketball team then Vin Baker and Moochie will be. I know you can say how they have smaller more workable contracts, fine. But to say Mo T wont be tradeable when his contract is ready to come off the books is ridiculous, becuase EVERYONE is tradable when your contract comes off the books.

I honestly don't think Nazr was worth more then what Isiah got for him, he was injured he hadnt put up any stats since December and before this year he was nothing special anyway. Before Nazr played with Marbury there was no way you would even dream of getting a 1st round pick for him and since he played with Marbury thats what they got for him.

and its not like Isiah is here just to collect a check. He's obviously passionate about being GM of the Knicks amd proving himself. A lot of guys don't put in the effort he does. He's there in the tunnel every game evaluating the team.

that is why we have to give him another year at least. Because then his moves will be more significant. The moves he made this year were minor. If he had traded for webber with webber injured now then that would've been a significantly bad move. What he does with this draft and the expiring contracts will be a lot more significant. Those are the moves that will determine if we'd going to be a 30win team or a constant playoff contender.

GIVE HIM ANOTHER YEAR FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by nyk4ever:

I understand that Malik and Mo T are not young players but in a year or 2 when we can truly judge Isiah by the team thats out there, I think they will be key players off the bench on a extremely young athletic team that comprises of Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, our 3 picks from this year and even Sweetney if he's still around. Not bad if you ask me

it sucks... 20 other teams have better futures than that. Please.

Fish exactly how many moves can you make in Isiah's 15 months He has had 1 DRAFT and in that draft he didn't even have a first round pick! I just don't understand, where is the patience! Give the man time to do his job, he's doing a pretty decent job so far, let's see what he can do.

oh I have patience. I'm not calling for his head. But dont tell me its ok we are terrible because we have this young core waiting in the wings when we dont. I give Zeke great credit for getting Ariza. But every move hes made has been to win now. You dont add over $200mm in salary (dont give me any 20% crap, please) if your NOT trying to win now. All these moves have been to address team needs and to get back to the playoffs.
15 months... and we have gone totally backwards. We are back to hoping to win the lottery and draft a player to save the franchise.

I'm patient... plenty patient, but why do I have to watch bad move after bad move and be ok with it because the guy is new? Where's the style of play? Where's the uptempo athletic exciting team he promised at the beginning of the year? When he said we would compete for the division. Oh right... we had injuries, unlike the Pacers who have actually missed real players.

Posted by Bonn1997:

We need more posters like you man! It's constantly Briggs and Fish complaining about Isiah being a disaster and I'm the only who posts frequently on the side that argues 15 months just isn't enough time. Good post!

i don't get where you're coming up w/that stuff because there's plenty of posters on this board who've been preaching patience until next year's trade deadline.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

We need more posters like you man! It's constantly Briggs and Fish complaining about Isiah being a disaster and I'm the only who posts frequently on the side that argues 15 months just isn't enough time. Good post!

i don't get where you're coming up w/that stuff because there's plenty of posters on this board who've been preaching patience until next year's trade deadline.

I preach the patience and give Isiah at least the length of his contract.

But bonnies not trying to suck up to me either!

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

We need more posters like you man! It's constantly Briggs and Fish complaining about Isiah being a disaster and I'm the only who posts frequently on the side that argues 15 months just isn't enough time. Good post!

i don't get where you're coming up w/that stuff because there's plenty of posters on this board who've been preaching patience until next year's trade deadline.

I haven't seen you argue with Briggs or Fish when they call Isiah a disaster or say that he's failed to make us better than #20th in the league in terms of talented young players, but maybe I missed all those replies of yours. Sorry if I did. Glad to hear that there are more people on the patience side and fewer on the Fish, Briggs side than I realized.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 04/07/2005 13:57:21]

fishmike in ebonics means hater