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so long as we are taking on as salary as humanly possible...
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eViL
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4/7/2005  11:18 AM
Holy sh!t. I posted a trade for Odom in another thread before I read this. Spooky.
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tkf
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4/7/2005  11:27 AM
Posted by fishmike:

who said anything about championship caliber? I'm talking about getting younger, establishing a style of play and collecting players that have skills that fit together.

As for Ariza at shooting guard I like a couple things. With KT, Odom and Marbury you have guys that can shoot. Ariza can guard guys smaller and it allows you to stick him on the other team's better offesnive player. Give him some minutes and he will give you something like 10 points and 8 rebs a night in 26-32 minutes at SG while playing good D. I dont know how Petro is on the boards but you have 4 guys thats are FAST and great in space and you will get exellent rebounding at the 2,3,4 and maybe 5. Run, hit the glass, attack the basket, create space. You have a style of play there.

exactly, I mean if you look at it, in our walk it up the court pace ,there are games where ariza is able to stumble upon 12 points, his jumper is comming along and he can finish at the hoop, give him more opportunities and you will see him flourish, guys like petro who are long and athletic can cause problems for a lot of teams, throw in ariza and you will see a knicks team that does not get kille on the boards by the likes of collison and pryzbilla, or teams run layup lines against us as if they were in practice... This team would be fun to watch...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  12:13 PM
Is a Marbury/Odom combo really going to do better than a Kobe/Odom combo? I don't mind getting Odom for a fairly cheap price, but I think a point forward is a bad player to combine with a guard who dominates the all. We're better off getting a less talented overall player who can play well down low. I think a Marbury/Zach combo, for example, would win more games because their skills compliment each other perfectly, even though Odom is better individually than Zach.
Allanfan20
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4/7/2005  12:38 PM
Odom doesn't dominate the ball nearly as muchas he did when he was with the Clippers. When he was with the Heat, he was the best player but he had Wade to distribute the ball and he's doing decent playing along side Kobe.

Maybe Zach would be a better fit on the offense, but his defense is still terrible and he never passes, so what's the point. Odom is a guy who passes just as much as scores and he actually plays defense. I don't care how the 2 fit, just make it fit. I'd take Odom over Zach any day of the week. Besides. Odom is an very good low post scorer as well.
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diderotn
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4/7/2005  12:46 PM
I think that a Marburry and Odom combo could be great...After all, Marb played a couple of years with KG to whom I believe that Odom resembled. Odom is a much better shooter than Kurt and most of all, he has great court vision. Is he a go to guy down the stretch? no, but that is where dealing with GS would do us well. Jason Richardson is a finisher and playing Marb, Richardson, Odom, Taylor, Pietro or Taft, could definitely change our bad luck. Richardson and Marb can both take over in the fourth, and the other guys can be free to do what they do best. We have to trade Craw, Sweet, and Kurt for us to get better...


Posted by Bonn1997:

Is a Marbury/Odom combo really going to do better than a Kobe/Odom combo? I don't mind getting Odom for a fairly cheap price, but I think a point forward is a bad player to combine with a guard who dominates the all. We're better off getting a less talented overall player who can play well down low. I think a Marbury/Zach combo, for example, would win more games because their skills compliment each other perfectly, even though Odom is better individually than Zach.
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Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  12:51 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Odom doesn't dominate the ball nearly as muchas he did when he was with the Clippers. When he was with the Heat, he was the best player but he had Wade to distribute the ball and he's doing decent playing along side Kobe.

Maybe Zach would be a better fit on the offense, but his defense is still terrible and he never passes, so what's the point. Odom is a guy who passes just as much as scores and he actually plays defense. I don't care how the 2 fit, just make it fit. I'd take Odom over Zach any day of the week. Besides. Odom is an very good low post scorer as well.
I'd have to agree with Briggs (as much as it pains me to say that) that Zach's defense is average and not terrible. Actually, if you look at opponents FG% against him, the number is outstanding. (I personally would neither fully rely on nor ignore that stat.) From what I've seen of him, I'd say his man to man defense is good (above average), his help defense is poor, and overall his defense is about average.
Killa4luv
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4/7/2005  1:06 PM
I love it!! This trade would make us better and an overall more dynamic team on offense. With Odom we would have 3 players who can handle the rock and pass well.

Whats Odoms defense like?
Brian Grant is nice on the boards so we still have that.

Now if we could turn sweets and KT into eddy Curry, we'd be looking at championship caliber. Curry would be the 4th option, Craw would be the 3rd option and these are right where they belong to be effective.
TMS
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4/7/2005  1:22 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Is a Marbury/Odom combo really going to do better than a Kobe/Odom combo? I don't mind getting Odom for a fairly cheap price, but I think a point forward is a bad player to combine with a guard who dominates the all.

it seemed to work pretty well for Jordan & Pippen on those Bulls teams...i don't think you can generalize & say it wouldn't work...there are probably so many other factors going on in LA that account for that team's lack of team chemistry...Marbury & Odom would make a devastating tandem...both guys are NY natives, & both would love to be playing together imho.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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4/7/2005  1:22 PM
Sorry, but Odom reminds of Tim Thomas- sure, slightly better, but I have a feeling that the day Odom steps onto the court for the Knicks is the day his level of play reverts to something that is maddenly inconsistent.

And Brian Grant is washed up, for anyone thinking he'll contribute anything.
TMS
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4/7/2005  1:23 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Here is the list of free agents for Summer 2006

Player Team Type
Jason Collier Atlanta Unrestricted Free Agent
Tony Delk Atlanta Unrestricted Free Agent
Al Harrington Atlanta Unrestricted Free Agent
Justin Reed Boston Restricted Free Agent
Melvin Ely Charlotte Restricted Free Agent
Bernard Robinson Charlotte Restricted Free Agent
Tamar Slay Charlotte Unrestricted Free Agent
Antonio Davis Chicago Unrestricted Free Agent
Eric Piatkowski Chicago Unrestricted Free Agent
Drew Gooden Cleveland Restricted Free Agent
Lucious Harris Cleveland Unrestricted Free Agent
Robert Traylor Cleveland Unrestricted Free Agent
Jiri Welsch Cleveland Restricted Free Agent
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga Dallas Restricted Free Agent
Jason Terry Dallas Unrestricted Free Agent
Keith Van Horn Dallas Unrestricted Free Agent
Greg Buckner Denver Unrestricted Free Agent
Francisco Elson Denver Restricted Free Agent
Luis Flores Denver Restricted Free Agent
Nene Hilario Denver Restricted Free Agent
Voshon Lenard Denver Unrestricted Free Agent
Ronald Dupree Detroit Restricted Free Agent
Lindsey Hunter Detroit Unrestricted Free Agent
Tayshaun Prince Detroit Restricted Free Agent
Ben Wallace Detroit Unrestricted Free Agent
Calbert Cheaney Golden State Unrestricted Free Agent
Mike Dunleavy Golden State Restricted Free Agent
Rodney White Golden State Unrestricted Free Agent
Vin Baker Houston Unrestricted Free Agent
Yao Ming Houston Restricted Free Agent
Scott Padgett Houston Unrestricted Free Agent
Clarence Weatherspoon Houston Unrestricted Free Agent
David Wesley Houston Unrestricted Free Agent
Eddie Gill Indiana Unrestricted Free Agent
Fred Jones Indiana Restricted Free Agent
Reggie Miller Indiana Unrestricted Free Agent
Scot Pollard Indiana Unrestricted Free Agent
Mamadou N'Diaye L.A. Clippers Unrestricted Free Agent
Chris Wilcox L.A. Clippers Restricted Free Agent
Chucky Atkins L.A. Lakers Unrestricted Free Agent
Caron Butler L.A. Lakers Restricted Free Agent
Vlade Divac L.A. Lakers Unrestricted Free Agent
Devean George L.A. Lakers Unrestricted Free Agent
Jumaine Jones L.A. Lakers Unrestricted Free Agent
Stanislav Medvedenko L.A. Lakers Unrestricted Free Agent
Antonio Burks Memphis Restricted Free Agent
Andre Emmett Memphis Restricted Free Agent
Bonzi Wells Memphis Unrestricted Free Agent
Lorenzen Wright Memphis Unrestricted Free Agent
Rasual Butler Miami Unrestricted Free Agent
Keyon Dooling Miami Unrestricted Free Agent
Damon Jones Miami Unrestricted Free Agent
Shaquille O'Neal Miami Unrestricted Free Agent
Qyntel Woods Miami Unrestricted Free Agent
Michael Redd Milwaukee Unrestricted Free Agent
Sam Cassell Minnesota Unrestricted Free Agent
Fred Hoiberg Minnesota Unrestricted Free Agent
Michael Olowokandi Minnesota Unrestricted Free Agent
Ron Mercer New Jersey Unrestricted Free Agent
Clifford Robinson New Jersey Unrestricted Free Agent
Jacque Vaughn New Jersey Unrestricted Free Agent
Chris Andersen New Orleans Unrestricted Free Agent
Speedy Claxton New Orleans Unrestricted Free Agent
George Lynch New Orleans Unrestricted Free Agent
Jackson Vroman New Orleans Restricted Free Agent
Trevor Ariza New York Restricted Free Agent
Jackie Butler New York Unrestricted Free Agent
Anfernee Hardaway New York Unrestricted Free Agent
Tim Thomas New York Unrestricted Free Agent
Stacey Augmon Orlando Unrestricted Free Agent
Tony Battie Orlando Unrestricted Free Agent
Kelvin Cato Orlando Unrestricted Free Agent
Doug Christie Orlando Unrestricted Free Agent
Mario Kasun Orlando Restricted Free Agent
Michael Bradley Philadelphia Unrestricted Free Agent
Jamal Mashburn Philadelphia Unrestricted Free Agent
John Salmons Philadelphia Restricted Free Agent
Steven Hunter Phoenix Unrestricted Free Agent
Jimmy Jackson Phoenix Unrestricted Free Agent
Walter McCarty Phoenix Unrestricted Free Agent
Paul Shirley Phoenix Unrestricted Free Agent
Amare Stoudemire Phoenix Restricted Free Agent
Jake Voskuhl Phoenix Unrestricted Free Agent
Joel Przybilla Portland Unrestricted Free Agent
Nick Van Exel Portland Unrestricted Free Agent
Cuttino Mobley Sacramento Unrestricted Free Agent
Greg Ostertag Sacramento Unrestricted Free Agent
Darius Songaila Sacramento Unrestricted Free Agent
Robert Horry San Antonio Unrestricted Free Agent
Nazr Mohammed San Antonio Unrestricted Free Agent
Antonio Daniels Seattle Unrestricted Free Agent
Lamond Murray Toronto Unrestricted Free Agent
Pape Sow Toronto Restricted Free Agent
Aaron Williams Toronto Unrestricted Free Agent
Loren Woods Toronto Unrestricted Free Agent
Curtis Borchardt Utah Restricted Free Agent
Jarron Collins Utah Unrestricted Free Agent
Matt Harpring Utah Unrestricted Free Agent
Raul Lopez Utah Restricted Free Agent
Jared Jeffries Washington Restricted Free Agent


They can go after Yao, Amare and Redd. That is a pretty good list.

add Shaq & Ben Wallace to that list of bolded players...even if for just 1 or 2 years, i would still be willing to pay money to get Shaq here if he's still playing at a high level.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
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4/7/2005  1:31 PM
Nobody dominates the ball more than Kobe. No player I have ever seen.
gunsnewing
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4/7/2005  1:39 PM
I agree that a Marbury/Randolph tandem will equate to more wins then Marbury/Odom. and the joke of a frontline consisting of Kurt Thomas as our best bigman.
gunsnewing
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4/7/2005  1:45 PM
if we don't get Bogut or Taft and we take Green instead I would love to trade TT/Penny for Zach Randolph. I think Odom is severely overrated on this board. I think Miami making the playoffs last year had more to do with wade/haslem than him. Look how Wade & Haslem carry this team when shaq goes down. they put up HUGE numbers and still beat good teams!

If we don't get Bogut:
PG-Marbury
SG-Green
SF-TT/Ariza
PF-Randolph
C-Whatever-preferably a guy who can block shots not Kurt-trade up and take Petro or Frye
Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  1:53 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

if we don't get Bogut or Taft and we take Green instead I would love to trade TT/Penny for Zach Randolph. I think Odom is severely overrated on this board.
I agree. He's a nice player, no doubt, but also severely overrated. He's an above average starter but by no means an all-star.
codeunknown
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4/7/2005  2:01 PM
Good trade. We improve rebounding and defense. And some people say that helps to win games occasionally. Clearly, we need another big-time scoring option - maybe our draftee brings that in 3-4 years. Shooting remains a concern. Ariza guards the 2/3 well. Odom defends the 4 well. Match-up wise, the team is versatile.

If Odom comes only at the expense of TT/Hardaway, then obviously you make the deal. But, we need to execute in this draft - once we make this trade, we won't be bad enough to regain this sort of opportunity. Crawford, Sweetney and KT are pieces you can use to wither move up in the draft or pursue a follow-up trade.

That said, I would easily take Randolph over Odom. He's the scorer we need to balance our offense and a 2-way rebounder that gets more possessions for the team. Post-defense is learned and less dependent on reaction or athletic skill - Zach can learn. Pair him with Bogut (dare I say) and the rest of the league can say good-night.

Plan

Trade TT, Sweetney, + late 2005 1st rounder for Z. Randolph and Ruben Patterson.

Win the lotery and draft Bogut.


Marbs
Craw
Ariza
Randolph
Bogut


[Edited by - codeunknown on 04/07/2005 14:04:48]
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  2:03 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

The trade is excellent - we improve rebounding and defense. And some people say that helps to win games occasionally. Clearly, we need another big-time scoring option - maybe our draftee brings that in 3-4 years. Shooting remains a concern. Ariza guards the 2/3 well. Odom defends the 4 well. Match-up wise, the team is versatile.

If Odom comes only at the expense of TT/Hardaway, then obviously you make the deal. But, we need to execute in this draft - once we make this trade, we won't be bad enough to regain this sort of opportunity. Crawford, Sweetney and KT are pieces you can use to wither move up in the draft or pursue a follow-up trade.

That said, I would easily take Randolph over Odom. He's the scorer we need to balance our offense and a 2-way rebounder that gets more possessions for the team. Post-defense is learned and less dependent on reaction or athletic skill - Zach can learn. Pair him with Bogut (dare I say) and the rest of the league can say good-night.

Plan

Trade TT, Sweetney, + late 2005 1st rounder for Z. Randolph and Ruben Patterson.

Win the lotery and draft Bogut.


Marbs
Craw
Ariza
Randolph
Bogut
If that's all it took to get Zach, I'd be SO happy.
Killa4luv
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4/7/2005  2:17 PM
If that whole scenario played out, words could not describe how I would feel.
codeunknown
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4/7/2005  2:19 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

If that's all it took to get Zach, I'd be SO happy.

Thats always good to know.

More realistically I'd do TT, Sweetney and late 1st rounder for Zach and DA, but without the ending contract of Moochie Norris (see Houston Rockets), the deal isn't workable.

[Edited by - codeunknown on 04/07/2005 14:21:47]
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
gunsnewing
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4/7/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If that's all it took to get Zach, I'd be SO happy.

Thats always good to know.

More realistically I'd do TT, Sweetney and late 1st rounder for Zach and DA, but without the ending contract of Moochie Norris (see Houston Rockets), the deal isn't workable.

[Edited by - codeunknown on 04/07/2005 14:21:47]

You're right that is a problem but there's always ways you can make it work. Maybe make a minor trade or signing first to set that whole scenario up.
codeunknown
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4/7/2005  3:00 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:


You're right that is a problem but there's always ways you can make it work. Maybe make a minor trade or signing first to set that whole scenario up.

Not necesarily. First, you can't make a minor trade in anticipation of a bigger trade and then have the bigger trade not happen. You're going to have to give up some assets in the minor trade which is a risk. Not to mention the fact that Mo Taylor (bless his heart) gets to stay. Now.. annoying as that is in itself, it means that if we sign an extra player in the hope of getting Randolph, we start to tie up a significant number roster spots that could be use to look at prospects (see Jackie Butler). So, making a Randolph deal, no cake-walk to begin with, becomes even more cumbersome. Ask yourself -would you rather have Mo Taylor (post-up superstar) or ole Zach Randolph?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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