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Sweeten the pot--KT and Sweetney to Orlando for Tony Battie and pick 13
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VDesai
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4/4/2005  11:18 AM
Ulimately, I have a sneaking suspicion that Isiah will use Sweetney and the our lottery pick to move up and get a guy like Green or Marvin Williams.
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gunsnewing
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4/4/2005  11:19 AM
I don't think Josh Smith is any better than Sweetney. All Smith can do is jump and block some shots but he's still only 6'9. Josh Childress is actually the better player
gunsnewing
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4/4/2005  11:22 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Ulimately, I have a sneaking suspicion that Isiah will use Sweetney and the our lottery pick to move up and get a guy like Green or Marvin Williams.

if we don't walk away with a top 3 pick and bogut, green or williams then I would love that!
VDesai
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4/4/2005  11:25 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I don't think Josh Smith is any better than Sweetney. All Smith can do is jump and block some shots but he's still only 6'9. Josh Childress is actually the better player

Josh Smith is also only 19 years old, and averaging very solid numbers for a rookie (like 9 pts 5.5 rebs in 26 mins on 45% shooting), and has shown improvement over the course of the season. 6-9 225 and very athletic. I'd say this kid has a ton of potential. Would definitely trade for him...
BRIGGS
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4/4/2005  11:31 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

but briggs Kurt and Sweetney make around 8mil combined. Battie only makes 5mil. Cato makes 8mil but would they trade him?

unless they have another player to throw in to make up the 3mil difference...

Like DeShawn Stevenson!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think they want to trade stevenson anymore. they did, but I doubt it now. Anyway, you have to count the cost of the draft pick which is 1.4mm+Battie 6.5mm and that comes within 15%
Briggs... it doesnt work that way. Draft picks have no $$$ value when you trade them. If you draft a player then trade his rights that also has no $$ impact, and you cant sign and trade drafted player, only veterans.

Its got to be Cato or like he said Orl has to include DS or equal $$$.

I would do KT and the #30 for Battie and the #14 however as another option.

I think Sweetney for Josh Smith has a possibility also.

yes they do have cash value, look it up in the CBA absolutely 100% they do when a team drafts a player and trades them, the salary structured payment counts against the other teams cap.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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4/4/2005  11:48 AM
Briggs... it counts against the cap but not for the value of the trade.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/4/2005  11:52 AM
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#70

check it out... Briggs you owe me one for this. If Bonn found this we would all be subjected to 3000 posts reminding us all about the time he proved you wrong about draft pick cash value in trades.

Its like you said in terms of the cap... rookie payscale counts against your cap number, but unsigned rookies have a $0 cash value in terms of matching money.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/4/2005  12:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#70

check it out... Briggs you owe me one for this. If Bonn found this we would all be subjected to 3000 posts reminding us all about the time he proved you wrong about draft pick cash value in trades.

Its like you said in terms of the cap... rookie payscale counts against your cap number, but unsigned rookies have a $0 cash value in terms of matching money.

You caught the key phrase*unsigned*. the drafted player can agree to a contract and moved.
RIP Crushalot😞
Allanfan20
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4/4/2005  12:08 PM
Yeah, but if you're just trading the draft pick alone, the player can't agree to anything b/c there is no player, just a pick. In terms of $$$$$ that pick is worth absolutely nothing, even if it's the #1, I believe.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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4/4/2005  12:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by fishmike:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#70

check it out... Briggs you owe me one for this. If Bonn found this we would all be subjected to 3000 posts reminding us all about the time he proved you wrong about draft pick cash value in trades.

Its like you said in terms of the cap... rookie payscale counts against your cap number, but unsigned rookies have a $0 cash value in terms of matching money.

You caught the key phrase*unsigned*. the drafted player can agree to a contract and moved.
naa... you cant do that with rookies. Your essentially talking about a sign and trade, and it doesnt apply to rookies. Thats way Dec 15th is an interesting calender day because its the first day that rookies can be traded.

84. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?

For three months or until December 15th of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent or draft rookie. (Note: This does not apply to players who sign contract extensions or who renegotiate their existing contracts. These players may be traded immediately.)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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4/4/2005  12:22 PM
as far as i know, draft day trades only involve the trading of a player's draft rights (Knick cannot trade this year's pick since they traded last year's to get Marbury)...the rookies don't sign their contracts until weeks after draft night...i think if you make the trade just after you draft the player (as often happens), there are no salary figures to be considered for that drafted player.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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4/4/2005  12:26 PM
Posted by TMS:

as far as i know, draft day trades only involve the trading of a player's draft rights (Knick cannot trade this year's pick since they traded last year's to get Marbury)...the rookies don't sign their contracts until weeks after draft night...i think if you make the trade just after you draft the player (as often happens), there are no salary figures to be considered for that drafted player.

whatever way you want to do it, the trade for Battie+ a pick for KT and Sweet can be done simply by having the draftee agree to a contract. It doesnt matter if that contract is verbally agreed upon 10 seconds after he is drafted or signed a week later. the bottom line is that trade works under the CBA.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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4/4/2005  12:35 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:

as far as i know, draft day trades only involve the trading of a player's draft rights (Knick cannot trade this year's pick since they traded last year's to get Marbury)...the rookies don't sign their contracts until weeks after draft night...i think if you make the trade just after you draft the player (as often happens), there are no salary figures to be considered for that drafted player.

whatever way you want to do it, the trade for Battie+ a pick for KT and Sweet can be done simply by having the draftee agree to a contract. It doesnt matter if that contract is verbally agreed upon 10 seconds after he is drafted or signed a week later. the bottom line is that trade works under the CBA.


To show you an example of why a draft pick has cash value, read this trade between the Blazers and nets who both were over the cap, The Nets sent nothing but the 22 pick to Portaldn and in return they got a player within 15% of the contract and unspecified $ considerations. Its quite obvious that the pick had cash value because they traded it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=1828923
,
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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4/4/2005  12:38 PM
its doesnt... cap value and trade value are two different things. You have to match salaries. Until a rookie is signed his trade value is $0. After he's signed he cant be traded until Dec 15. If you sign a drafted player he's yours for 60 days after training camp. If you dont sign him he's got zero cash value in trades.

Get back to the trade and forget Sweetney. Orlando has a lot of guys coming off the books at the end of next year and may not want MS anyway. Something like Battie + pick for KT + 2006 #1 or our 2nd #1 this year might be just as feasible.

Like 3 years ago when we had Spree, Houston, Ward, etc and were #1 in 3 pointers made and 3pt FG% I said two guys that could make that formula work were Danny Fortson and Tony Battie. One cleans the glass the other defends the posts.

I like like Battie and say his value is far greater than his numbers would suggest. He has had some knee problems and I dont know what he's got in the tank. Its a short term commitment. I would do it for any kind of pick back though... time to balance this thing and move on
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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4/4/2005  12:44 PM
you dont have to match salaries for minimum players.. like if we signed Bulter in Dec and traded him we wouldnt have to take $$$ back because he's a minimum guy.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Sweeten the pot--KT and Sweetney to Orlando for Tony Battie and pick 13
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