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Who wants to see Zeke Fail and Who wants to see him Succeed....and Why?
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Bonn1997
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4/3/2005  7:01 PM
I'm obviously one of Isiah's stronger supporters but I think he's made his share of mistakes like any GM. I support him because I think he has a reasonable approach and the vast majority of his decisions were reasonable to me. I defend him because I think most posters/critics had ridiculous expectations about what could be accomplished in one year
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nyk4ever
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4/3/2005  10:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I'm obviously one of Isiah's stronger supporters but I think he's made his share of mistakes like any GM. I support him because I think he has a reasonable approach and the vast majority of his decisions were reasonable to me. I defend him because I think most posters/critics had ridiculous expectations about what could be accomplished in one year

I agree 100% Bonn and I'm a big supporter of Isiah for the same exact reasons you gave too. I love his young approach and not one person on this board should want to see Isiah fail, he's the GM of the Knicks; the reason we're all here.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Killa4luv
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4/3/2005  11:16 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I'm obviously one of Isiah's stronger supporters but I think he's made his share of mistakes like any GM. I support him because I think he has a reasonable approach and the vast majority of his decisions were reasonable to me. I defend him because I think most posters/critics had ridiculous expectations about what could be accomplished in one year
Me too. I fell off posting here because it was becoming an unhealthy obsession for me. You can only squeez so much juice and info out of an organization that isn't winning.

Getting Steph here was great! He was my favorite player and the idea of him and H20 playing together was a dream come true for me. Had Allan remained healthy, we would be in a waaaay different plae right now, but thats all irrelevant now.

I liked getting Nazzy and TT as well, I think it made us better.

When he got J craw I thought it was a bad move. I thought it was redundant considering H20 would be back and he should focus on a Big to play with Steph and Allan. However, as our season progressed, I realized that I liked the move. Craw is young and his all-star potential was apparent to me and many on this board. As it turned out, H20 never really came back and its not really so much of problem cause he probably wont ever be back. :(

I liked Nazzy and hated to see him go, cause I didn't think much of Rose. I now see the light. Rose is better than Nazzy, without question, and the 2 draft picks really made that trade a no brainer.

I actually liked Mo Taylor when I first saw him play. I realize the baggage that comes along with him, but I was watching him liked his game and although I realized it was a risk to take him, I understood it and liked it. I still think the jury is out, on whether he will be a good player for us, but he has shown us some positive signs.

Overall, I think it all boils down to what he does with these picks, and Tim Thomas and Penny's contracts. That is what is gonna really make or break him and this team. That will be his and our (the Knicks) defining moment. The potential for us to be contenders exists. If we somehow landed 1 more all-star calibur player (especially if he s a big), we could be powerful considering the collection of role players and youth we already have. It will take more than 1 piece, but it can happen and I'm hoping he makes it happen. Time will tell.

BTW, I also like that he didn't go after Webber, we could have gotten him based on what Philly gave up to trade him. He showed me he is focussed on making us better in the long term, not the short term (which Webber would have accomplished for us).

Time will tell.
gunsnewing
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4/3/2005  11:34 PM
I agree Killa and there are many here who look at it the exact same way we do. What Isiah does with this draft, TT/Penny & coaching situation will determine how bright things look in the immediate future. Then H20's departure will be the ultimate icing on the cake.

The one truly horrible mistake Isiah made was hiring Wilkins. Every other deal was either minor or at worst it got us some chips to trade for picks like Nazr for two 1st rounders. The best you could do for Doleac would be a 2nd round pick.

I'm still very excited about next season. I wasn't as excited about this season since the best we could do in the offseason was Crawford and still no big to force Nazr to the bench where he belongs. But this offseason is going to be great! just the possibility of having bogut, green or taft and other drafted players on the Knicks next season and slowly showing the TT's, pennys and kurts of the world the door, makes my mouth water in excitement!!!
MS
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4/4/2005  9:22 AM
The only thing that Isiah has working with him is giving way to much money to Aaron Goodwin, so hopefully when Lebron becomes a free agent he will sign the mid-level, which i am sure with the close to 12 million he will be getting in endorsements should suffice.......

Considering he would instantly turn into the biggest athlete in all of the world in ny and deliver a ring to this sad franchise that hasn't won a title in forever, then Isiah would get my vote.....

But everyone wants him to suceed no one enjoys watching this team of losers blow close games every night of the week, and watch Crawford shoot 3-17 and turn it over 4 times.....

Isiah gets this offseason in my opinion, we were better off not making the playoffs.....So draft, sign with the mid-level and trade and we will see what happens
Bonn1997
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4/4/2005  9:25 AM
Posted by MS:

The only thing that Isiah has working with him is giving way to much money to Aaron Goodwin, so hopefully when Lebron becomes a free agent he will sign the mid-level, which i am sure with the close to 12 million he will be getting in endorsements should suffice.......

Considering he would instantly turn into the biggest athlete in all of the world in ny and deliver a ring to this sad franchise that hasn't won a title in forever, then Isiah would get my vote.....

But everyone wants him to suceed no one enjoys watching this team of losers blow close games every night of the week, and watch Crawford shoot 3-17 and turn it over 4 times.....

Isiah gets this offseason in my opinion, we were better off not making the playoffs.....So draft, sign with the mid-level and trade and we will see what happens
Wow; I thought you were gonna bash Isiah in response to my post and the ones that followed mine. I'm actually impressed. Two thumbs up!
islesfan
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4/8/2005  11:57 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

I would like to see this team succeed. Therefore I would like to see Isiah succeed. But let the record show that there are some posters around here who's hate for Isiah outweighs their love for the Knicks. These people would like to see him fail so bad until the Knicks being the casualty is just a formality for them. I say that these people are not fans at all. They are Isiah haters and will stop at nothing to hate on the dude. When Layden was at the helm I wanted him to succeed as well. I gave a lot of time to prove himself in my mind. I gave him right up until he did the McDyess trade. After a number of seasons I was about done with him. The thing is, from the first day that Isiah Thomas took office with the Knicks there were people who declared war on the guy from that very moment. The very first day. The first hour. The first minute. Their contempt for this guy had outweighed their love for the Knicks then and they continue to now.

A true Knick fan would use this logic. He is the current GM. He will BE the GM until his bosses say differently. Therefore, it makes sense to root for the current Knicks GM to make the team better (which is a process) while he is here. There is an offseason coming up. There is a draft coming up. Unfortunately there are people who are hoping and wishing that Isiah will make a terrible move so that they can continue their longing to hate the man. Never mind the Knicks. With them, it's all about the renewal of their hatred for one man.

Please let the record show that your hypothesis is complete and utter crap.

How dare you call anybody out as not being a true Knick fan. You're great for Isiah's massive ego if you think that we care more about him than we do about the Knicks. The point that you're missing is that we care deeply about the Knicks which is why we're so disturbed to have someone like Isiah running the team. Do you really think we gave a crap about Isiah before he came to the Knicks? I, for one, didn't care about what he was doing before coming here but once he came here I knew what we were in for based on his record as an executive in other places and his arrogant, egomaniacal, classless and phony self.

After a number of seasons I was about done with him (Layden)

A true Knick fan would use this logic. He is the current GM. He will BE the GM until his bosses say differently. Therefore, it makes sense to root for the current Knicks GM to make the team better (which is a process) while he is here.

You're such a hypocrite. Or maybe you're not a "true Knick fan" either. So it's ok to give up on a GM but only when you do it, right? Only you get to decide when the time is right to go against your own "logic". But when someone else goes against the "logic" then they can't be "true Knick fans".

The way you say you gave up on Layden, I gave up on Isiah the second he got here because I felt in my heart that he wasn't the type of person that would succeed here. And so far he hasn't done anything that would make me feel any differently. In fact, he's only strengthened my case and feeling about him. But if he does, I've said from the very beginning that I would admit that I was wrong and give him the credit that he would deserve. But in the meantime I want Isiah gone as soon as humanly possible, along with the Dolans, so that my Knicks can move forward. The point being that the sooner he's gone the sooner we can really start rebuilding and move closer to competing for a championship.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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4/8/2005  12:26 PM
we've missed you isles
nyk4ever
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4/8/2005  12:37 PM
I agree with most of you guys who have stated that it all comes down to what Isiah does with these picks that the Knicks have and what becomes of the TT/Penny contracts. Some can take the approach that maybe Isiah should just let them run out and I see the logic there but I also see logic with making those 2 expiring contracts into Zach Randolph or someone to that effect. Between those 2 scenarios and the coaching position, Isiah has his hands full and I'll give him his chance to make that work.

I for one could care less about Isiah succeeding just becuase it's Isiah. I want Isiah to succeed becuase he's the GM of MY New York Knicks and thats the only reason alone.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
edsonline
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4/8/2005  2:55 PM
KEEP ISIAH -

1. He brought in a star player from NY who had openly talked about his dream being to play for the Knicks.
2. Marbury was talking about being a Knick since he came in the league and had been traded twice. Grunfeld and Layden were never able to get him. And Grunfeld was/still is a damn good GM.
3. This season has gone down the toilet, but before the injuries caught up with them and they started stink like a backed up gas station toilet, they were 3 games over .500 and in 1st place of their division. If the massive tailspin didn't start this team most likely would have made the playoffs.
4. The man knows talent. Got Ariza at pick 43 and was very influential in all of the talent the Pacers brought in while he was there.
5. Look at all of the trade assets we have. Lotto pick this year(I'd prefer to keep it, but if swaps if for a young All-Star level player I won't complain), late first this year, late second this year, a late first next year (I'm not mentioning our own next year cuz if the team finishes with a good record Suns might get it, don't remember the protection on it) two huge expiring contracts, two damn good prospects, Jamal, and Kurt. Plus the MLE, the LLE, and if we get lucky a disable player exception (money value of an MLE but can be used in trades and S ad T's) for H20 (everyone pray) That's a lot to work with.
6. What better, proven GM would replace him?
7. How long was Layden here before he got canned? Team got progressively worse under him. Isiah gets hired they make the playoffs last year. Team was going to make the playoffs this year until injuries sent the season to hell. The only team that has had as many issues and made (or will make) the playoffs is Indiana. Layden was here for years and people question whether Isiah should be removed after a season and a half?

ISIAH SHOULD CLEARLY BE GIVEN A CHANCE
fishmike
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4/8/2005  3:37 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I agree with most of you guys who have stated that it all comes down to what Isiah does with these picks that the Knicks have and what becomes of the TT/Penny contracts. Some can take the approach that maybe Isiah should just let them run out and I see the logic there but I also see logic with making those 2 expiring contracts into Zach Randolph or someone to that effect. Between those 2 scenarios and the coaching position, Isiah has his hands full and I'll give him his chance to make that work.

I for one could care less about Isiah succeeding just becuase it's Isiah. I want Isiah to succeed becuase he's the GM of MY New York Knicks and thats the only reason alone.
and now because everything else he's done so far has blown up so now he HAS to execute bigtime in this draft. This is make or break because litterally every move he's made so far has failed to yield anything positive. He's already set us back, blowing this draft will crush us. We not only need luck in the draft we need some luck that someone like Jackie Butler blows up and is some kind of monster.

[Edited by - fishmike on 04/08/2005 15:38:07]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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4/8/2005  3:45 PM
Well, we will never know unless they start giving him some playing time, and it's obviously not happening anytime soon, even if the Knicks are mathematically out of the playoffs, b/c Herb is still fighting for his job.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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Who wants to see Zeke Fail and Who wants to see him Succeed....and Why?
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