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Would you trade Marbury for the #1 pick?
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TMS
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4/3/2005  1:03 AM
Crawf and Kurt Thomas for Bogut is a much better deal.

yeah, if you're the NY KNICKS obviously...unfortunately you have to consider the other teams when you propose trades also...consider whether you would give up a #1 overall pick to get Crawford & KT if you were any other team in the NBA...it's not realistic.
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Marv
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4/3/2005  1:10 AM
I'd trade him for Bogut. Now I've never seen Bogut play, but I'm reading what you guys are saying about him holding his own against Duncan in the Olympics, being the best pure center since God, etc., etc. You guys agree Bogut's that good, of course I'd make the trade. Of course that also guarentees that no team who can get him is going to trade him.
Stevo718
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4/3/2005  1:25 AM
Is everyone here in the "Kill Marbury" Cult? I can't believe everyone here would trade the #1 pick for Marbury.

I HEREBY DECLARE BOGUT IS OVERATED. Now please everyone get off his d*ck.

So I guess everyone here would trade Marbury for a more agile Rik Smits?
Marv
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4/3/2005  1:28 AM
Posted by Stevo718:

Is everyone here in the "Kill Marbury" Cult? I can't believe everyone here would trade the #1 pick for Marbury.

I HEREBY DECLARE BOGUT IS OVERATED. Now please everyone get off his d*ck.

So I guess everyone here would trade Marbury for a more agile Rik Smits?

Well that's the quedtion, right? How good is Bogut going to be? It sounds like you've seen him and aren't that impressed. So you don't see any chance of him becoming an All-Star level center?
TMS
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4/3/2005  1:37 AM
from the comparisons i've heard, Bogut sounds like he will be a Vlade Divac/Brad Miller type player...considering the fact that we have a young player in Crawford who can take over the PG position, & the cap flexibility that unloading Marbury's contract will afford the Knicks in a couple years, i would make the deal...i'm looking at the big picture...this isn't a Marbury hate thread.
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gunsnewing
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4/3/2005  1:50 AM
who cares how good Bogut will be! the reason no team will trade him for Marbury is because he makes 20mil a year! Bogut is a hell of a lot cheaper and problably better. Losing Marbury for a cheaper bogut is not the end of the world! It puts us in great position in the future to bring in championship pieces.
tkf
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4/3/2005  3:13 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by matt:

I wouldn't... I agree, don't trade for someone who hasn't proved anything, and does anyone wonder if he can play under the NY media pressure? I'd wait before I trade Marbury

Marbury is an elite level player. Saying he's not an all-star is kind of dumb. Would I trade him for a package that consisted of either M Williams or Bogut? Yes, but lets wait and see here. Were going to have a reasonable chance to get into the lottery. Losing tomorrow will go a long way to help because its a head on lottery opponent.

Maybe w can still get lucky. we have to lOSe games, they have to sck it up and tank here, its VERY important we are 2 games out of the 6th seed. the sixth seed represents the last position where you have a 30% chance of getting spots 1-2-3. it drops pretty big from there.

if we get spots 1-2-3, we have a LOT of options even at pick 6 we have nice options leverage.

pick 8-9 in this draft drops off the table a bit.


good post briggs, I wonder about people so time, they want to bash marbury so much, they say weird things, marbs is an elite level player, but you never know about these GM's, the bulls traded Brand for the rights to pick Tyson chandler, that trade IMO backfired, no way is chandler on Brands level, and may never be....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Stevo718
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4/3/2005  3:27 AM
I can live with that. Now if your saying you'd trade Marbury for Bogut because Bogut is better then I have a problem with that.

Bogut seems like a strong white boy and I'm sure he will hold his own against NBA players. I just didn't see anything that really wowed me, I mean I wasn't expecting him to do amazing moves or dunks cause he's not about that but when i read the scouting and watched the games I realized scouting reports are always hyped up.

When you look at Duncan he is not flashy but he is a spectacular player. Do you guys get the sense Bogut is the same way? Cause I'm not so sure I do.
Bobby
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4/3/2005  4:22 AM
how can you trade a recently acquired star player filling a position while you have multiple players at other positions begging trade me

this year's flavor is bogut......please tell me what bandwagon pick you'll be selling out next year

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
TMS
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4/3/2005  12:47 PM
the bulls traded Brand for the rights to pick Tyson chandler, that trade IMO backfired, no way is chandler on Brands level, and may never be....

Chandler wasn't a #1 overall pick & he was coming straight out of HS...not exactly the same situation, now is it?
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TMS
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4/3/2005  12:47 PM
#1 overall picks are usually not busts...sure there are your Olowakandi's & Kwame Brown's here & there, but for the most part you know you're getting a very good player...& again, to give your team the cap flexibility to go after a bigname FA in 2007 after Houston's contract expires would be the key to this type of deal...anyone who thinks people are hating on Marbury in this thread is being ridiculously short sighted.
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gunsnewing
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4/3/2005  12:54 PM
Posted by TMS:

#1 overall picks are usually not busts...sure there are your Olowakandi's & Kwame Brown's here & there, but for the most part you know you're getting a very good player...& again, to give your team the cap flexibility to go after a bigname FA in 2007 after Houston's contract expires would be the key to this type of deal...anyone who thinks people are hating on Marbury in this thread is being ridiculously short sighted.

thank you. thats exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying Bogut is a better player right now but if he gives you 17 & 7 at the Center position while under a rookie contract we will be in much better shape in 2yrs once H20's contract expires. Our cap after 2007 will be at roughly $60mil as opposed to $80mil. And we'll be able to seriously go after the Lebrons, KGs & Yaos because we have lots of cap flexibility. no team is going to take on a $20mil a year player for the best player in the draft an best center since Yao or even duncan.
tkf
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4/3/2005  4:32 PM
Posted by TMS:
the bulls traded Brand for the rights to pick Tyson chandler, that trade IMO backfired, no way is chandler on Brands level, and may never be....

Chandler wasn't a #1 overall pick & he was coming straight out of HS...not exactly the same situation, now is it?

yes it is, chandler was a top 3 pick I think, he was very highly regarded, my point is, that you always don't come out better off by trading young proven players, for younger players with all this"potential" that is the point here...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TMS
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4/3/2005  6:00 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TMS:
the bulls traded Brand for the rights to pick Tyson chandler, that trade IMO backfired, no way is chandler on Brands level, and may never be....

Chandler wasn't a #1 overall pick & he was coming straight out of HS...not exactly the same situation, now is it?

yes it is, chandler was a top 3 pick I think, he was very highly regarded, my point is, that you always don't come out better off by trading young proven players, for younger players with all this"potential" that is the point here...

HUGE difference dude...Bogut is dominating in the NCAA & he held his own in the Olympics against Tim Duncan, 1 of the NBA's elite bigmen...Chandler was a HS kid who hadn't proved anything except that he could dominate HS level competition...i have no idea how you're trying to draw comparisons there...it's a totally different situation.
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Vmart
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4/3/2005  6:40 PM
Yes I would trade Marbury for the number one. I would drive Marbury out of town personally. The thing is I have plenty of room in my van if you guys want I can take Crawford, KT with me and drop them off somewhere else. I have a lot of free time.
Bonn1997
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4/3/2005  7:14 PM
Posted by TMS:
the bulls traded Brand for the rights to pick Tyson chandler, that trade IMO backfired, no way is chandler on Brands level, and may never be....

Chandler wasn't a #1 overall pick & he was coming straight out of HS...not exactly the same situation, now is it?
I think it's the same concept and a good analogy. I wouldn't trade a proven star for a #1 pick unless the pick were extremely likely to become a special star like Lebron James was. Often, you're better off being the team that gets the proven player than the team that gets the draft pick (e.g., Elton Brand, Antoine Jamison) because teams are willing to overpay for lottery picks.
TMS
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4/3/2005  8:58 PM
Andrew Bogut's no more of a question mark than Elton Brand was, another former #1 overall pick...Lebron? guys like that come along once in a generation.
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Killa4luv
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4/3/2005  10:35 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:

#1 overall picks are usually not busts...sure there are your Olowakandi's & Kwame Brown's here & there, but for the most part you know you're getting a very good player...& again, to give your team the cap flexibility to go after a bigname FA in 2007 after Houston's contract expires would be the key to this type of deal...anyone who thinks people are hating on Marbury in this thread is being ridiculously short sighted.
thank you. thats exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying Bogut is a better player right now but if he gives you 17 & 7 at the Center position while under a rookie contract we will be in much better shape in 2yrs once H20's contract expires. Our cap after 2007 will be at roughly $60mil as opposed to $80mil. And we'll be able to seriously go after the Lebrons, KGs & Yaos because we have lots of cap flexibility. no team is going to take on a $20mil a year player for the best player in the draft an best center since Yao or even duncan.

I think TMS makes a good point. however, I don't see Andrew Bogut as a sure thing. He plays in a conference that is like JV. I in no way think you can make the assumption that he will come in and average 17 & 7 in his first 3 years. Maybe if I was convinced of that, I would agree that the trade for a pick was a good idea. Besides him, I dont see any other playes capable of putting those numbers up at any position in their first 2 years. But maybe its me and I will certainly be proven wrong by at least 1 person in the draft. Even in a weak draft, stars come out.

But if I could agree witht he premise, I would have to agree with the trade. Even though it would hurt me because I love Steph, I know he loves the Knicks and it would hurt to see him go, because I know with the right pieces he would die to make us win.
Bonn1997
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4/3/2005  11:39 PM
Posted by TMS:

Andrew Bogut's no more of a question mark than Elton Brand was, another former #1 overall pick...Lebron? guys like that come along once in a generation.
huh? I'm not sure what your point about Elton Brand is. I wouldn't have traded Marbury for him back when Elton was the #1 pick and I wouldn't trade Marbury for him now either.
Regading a Bogut-Brand comparison, the issue is who is more of a question NOW. Brand is obviously not a question at all now. He's as solid and consistent a player as you'll ever find. I don't know enough about Bogut to compare him to Brand, but I think most #1 picks don't amount to be better than Brand.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 04/03/2005 23:55:26]
Allanfan20
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4/4/2005  4:24 AM
Dwight Howard and Emeka- Possibly becomes better.

LeBron- Already better

Yao- Right with Brand
Kwame- Not better

Kenyon- Not better, but still a boardline all star, and a top notch defensive player.

Michael Olowokandi- Bust

Tim Duncan- Way better than Brand

Allen Iverson- I think he's better than Brand, but it depends on the team, who you'll take instead. For the Knicks, you'd have to take Brand, b/c we need size.

Joe Smith- Bust

Glenn Robinson- Good solid NBA Career. Just as good a scorer as Brand, but Elton is better OVERALL.

Chris Webber- Better than Brand

Larry Johnson- Talent and heart wise, better than Brand, but LJ had all those back injuries and his career ended early b/c of that, so I'd take Brand for that reason ALONE. But how could you not love LJ?

Shaq- Um???

Derrick Coleman- Great potential but underachiever big time. I'll take Brand instantly.

Pervis Ellison- I don't even know who he is.

Danny Manning- You take Brand, but Manning had a whole lot of game, but it was hampered by injuries. He was supposed to be real good.

Bill Daugherty- Don't know him.

David Robinson- Who is Elton?

Patrick Ewing- Who the hell is Elton???

Hakeem- Again I saw, who the hell is Elton?


So Bonn, despite you saying that most #1 picks don't amount to be better than Elton, more than half of the #1 picks since Hakeem turned out to be better than Elton.

You gotto think Bonn. Marbury is the proven star, but for how many more years? 3 or 4 more years could be realistic. Maybe not even, pending on his health. Bogut is going to be a very good NBA center (At least?) for the next 10- 15 years. It's not as bad an idea as you think to make that trade.



“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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