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Isiah keeps missing the boat
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MS
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3/23/2005  1:46 PM
So the blame has to go to Isiah for A: hiring Lenny Wilkens, and screwing the team because of it.....

We would have been better off using our expiring deals to get back good players, instead of flashy players......

Also what is the comparision about the bulls terrible drafting habits
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diderotn
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3/23/2005  1:51 PM
I can honestly see why Isiah hired Lenny...He was looking for a big name coach who happened to have won a championship to mold this N.Y team...However, he failed to realize that Lenny was an aging coach...His attention to detail would have been challenged, especially in late games...Frankly, he should have gone through the season with herb whom was put in as an interim, evaluate the performance, and pursue a coach if it was necessary.....

Posted by MS:

So the blame has to go to Isiah for A: hiring Lenny Wilkens, and screwing the team because of it.....

We would have been better off using our expiring deals to get back good players, instead of flashy players......

Also what is the comparision about the bulls terrible drafting habits
The true Knickabocker..........
nyk4ever
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3/23/2005  1:52 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:

You've to be kidding me if you think that Danny Ainge or ANY GM in the NBA for that matter would not accept a deal from Isiah Thomas just because they don't like him. The NBA is a buisness and in buisness alot of times you deal with people you don't like for whatever reason. Jerry Krause was one of the most hated people in basketball yet, he still made trades and when his team had the best offered, it was taken by the other team. This isn't kindergarten, this is a buisness.

perhaps explaining why he always got HOUSED in trades?

Brad Miller and Artest for Jalen?

Elton Brand for Tyson's chicken?

I think thats called poor judgement, I don't remember any other teams offering much better deals to him. Thats also the reason that Krause isnt the GM of the Bulls anymore. If you can find the better offers he received I'll take your point.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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3/23/2005  1:59 PM
let's break it down, good moves, bad moves, mediocre, undetermined moves


good moves (based on talent, age, ability, potential, and philosophy)
marbury, crawford, ariza, butler, playing sweetney


bad moves:
baker, sundov, brewer, taylor, lenny


mediocre:
tim, nazr, moochie, kurt's extension


undetermined:
malik, herb

this is all not paying too much attention to payroll (otherwise there'd be alot more bad). i don't think isiah has been god awful. i think after layden, expecting a complete change in the franchise's philosphy, i am somewhat dissapointed. i don't think we're dead in the water but we have alot to do and i believe we sort of prolonged the process a little bit.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03/23/2005 14:01:48]
nyk4ever
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3/23/2005  1:59 PM
The key to both of those trades was that the Raptors knew that Zo was not going to play for them and that he would bought out and NOT take up any cap. Same deal with Payton.
Posted by diderotn:

Dude! You failed to read the statement that I have in quotation marks..Here is a question for you, what did the Nets offered the Raptors for Vince? What did Atlanta received from the Celts for Toine?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
simrud
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3/23/2005  2:27 PM
How quickly we forget what happend as early as last traiding deadline.

Do you not remember Danny Ainge making a trade with Boston just so they can enough expiring deals to beat the Knicks offer and get Wallace?

Do you remember Ainge outright gloatin over the fact that he did not let IT get his hands on Wallace?

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Nalod
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3/23/2005  3:59 PM
These opportunities require cap flexability! This is why we need to bring it down or have expiring contracts.

Those are coming, but we need to let some just fall off the books, not take on more.
djsunyc
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3/23/2005  4:15 PM
Posted by Nalod:

These opportunities require cap flexability! This is why we need to bring it down or have expiring contracts.

Those are coming, but we need to let some just fall off the books, not take on more.

cap flexiblity? what does that mean? who cares about cap flexibility?
simrud
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3/23/2005  4:52 PM
Yeah seriously, as long as the contracts end the same year as Houston, it does not matter if they make 9 mil a year and suck.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
nyk4ever
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3/23/2005  4:58 PM
Posted by simrud:

How quickly we forget what happend as early as last traiding deadline.

Do you not remember Danny Ainge making a trade with Boston just so they can enough expiring deals to beat the Knicks offer and get Wallace?

Do you remember Ainge outright gloatin over the fact that he did not let IT get his hands on Wallace?

I'm confused by that whole entire first statement. Ainge is the GM of the Celtics and the Celtics didn't get Wallace....
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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3/23/2005  6:03 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by simrud:

How quickly we forget what happend as early as last traiding deadline.

Do you not remember Danny Ainge making a trade with Boston just so they can enough expiring deals to beat the Knicks offer and get Wallace?

Do you remember Ainge outright gloatin over the fact that he did not let IT get his hands on Wallace?

I'm confused by that whole entire first statement. Ainge is the GM of the Celtics and the Celtics didn't get Wallace....
The Pistons got Antoine Wallace last year and the Celtics got Rasheed Walker this year. It all makes sense now!
Ira
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3/24/2005  4:20 AM
Posted by MS:

We have seen two nice moves for the price of nothing while isiah stands their and brings in players like Mo Taylor, or Jamaal Crawford for big money, players that aren't going to help you win....

Missed oppurtunity: Atlanta just gives people away, Wallace last year and Walker this year

Huge Missed Oppurtunity: Orlando has a terrible GM he gave away Drew Good and Varejo who is going to be a high energy game changer for years

Back-up Point: Carlos Arroyo for a second round pick and Elden Cambell

Jon Barry, David Wesley, Jim Jackson, all would have been cheap upgrades, but we never have any assets left

Instead of trading just to trade he needs to use his assets better, and stop giving them away and taking back low impact players....

Hindsight is 20-20. When Isaiah took over this team, we didn't have much in the way of assets. Now we have Marbs, Craw and Ariza and didn't give up much to get any of those players.
simrud
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3/24/2005  5:16 AM
The Celtics traded expiring contracts to Detroit for nothing, so that Detroit could ship them to Atlanta for Wallace.

Bonn, it arent my fault if you got memory problems

[Edited by - simrud on 03/24/2005 05:17:22]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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3/24/2005  8:11 AM
Posted by simrud:

The Celtics traded expiring contracts to Detroit for nothing, so that Detroit could ship them to Atlanta for Wallace.

Bonn, it arent my fault if you got memory problems

[Edited by - simrud on 03/24/2005 05:17:22]
As long as "it arent" your fault, I won't blame you. I probably won't remember to anyway!
nyk4ever
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3/24/2005  11:12 AM
Posted by simrud:

The Celtics traded expiring contracts to Detroit for nothing, so that Detroit could ship them to Atlanta for Wallace.

Bonn, it arent my fault if you got memory problems

[Edited by - simrud on 03/24/2005 05:17:22]

I don't know, the celtics gave up Chris Mills and Mike James who was a invaluable member of the Pistons championship run and they obtained a first round draft pick along with 2 expiring contracts in Bob Sura and Lindsey Hunter. To me it looks like Danny Ainge was just making a good trade.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 03/24/2005 11:13:15]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
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3/24/2005  11:23 AM
Danny Ainge has taken ALOT of flack on this board (from myself & others) & in the media for some of the moves he's made since taking over as GM in Boston, but i think some of his moves are really beginning to pan out for them...the ongoing maturation of Ricky Davis & getting Antoine Walker back has paid good dividends for their team this year, & there's no doubt that Al Jefferson looks to be a good pick & prospect...even Raef Lafrentz has started to pay some dividends for their team this year, & reacquiring Gary Payton was a good move as well imho...the hiring of Doc Rivers was another great move by Ainge...i actually think the Celtics are just 1 player away from being a serious title contender, & that player doesn't even have to be a dominant player like a Shaq, Duncan or KG either...a gritty defensive stopper like a Ruben Patterson would suit that team perfectly imho.
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Isiah keeps missing the boat
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