Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by rojasmas:

I don't see the offensive upside of Ariza being that great. How about a Desmond Mason type? But a little taller. Both are very active and athletic and wreak havoc on the boards and in transition.

Mason's a good scorer. I'd have no problem at all if Ariza became the kind of scorer Mason is. Mason's a mediocre rebounder, though. (I think around 4.5 a game.) I think Ariza has the potential to be a much better rebounder. He also has the *potential* to be a much better scorer. I'm surprised that some people aren't extremely impressed with what he's doing *at age 19*. Most all-stars in the league probably couldn't have put up some 20/10 or 16/8 games like Trevor did in the NBA at that age.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/22/2005 21:11:18]

You can't say he has the potential to be a much better scorer, b/c most of his points are garbage points, or fast break dunks, or feeds from his teammates. He has shown a move, maybe once every few games, but his jump shot is pretty erratic and he hasn't shown that he's skillful as a scorer. He's a good overall passer however, and he certainly can be a great rebounder for someone his size. That I agree with. He's very high energy, like Marcus Camby, and is a tough defender. Needs to gain some muscle. That's why I say Tayshawn Prince. He does get a decent amount of points some games, but most of them are from the reasons I mentioned above.

Plus, I have gone to Knick games and watched him go against Vin Baker in pre game shoot arounds, and he would frequently struggle, and didn't show a ton of moves.

Right now, it's just too early to tell how good a scorer he'll be. You can tell he'll be a very good rebounder, defender and passer. That's why I come up with Tayshawn Prince. I think that's a very fair comparison.

ariza has shown he is quite athletic, can grab rebounds, makes great cuts, and has decent defensive skills with his athleticsim.

hes a high energy player and excels in the transition game and fast breaks.

he has also shown he has a lot to learn in the league: he has to learn to make free throws, finish more often, and have a defensive mind like bowen, artest, and prince has.

hes great for a 19 year old rookie but he has potential and experience to go. I dont think he will ever become an all star but he has to learn to make himself useful and important as a defender in the league and the knicks.

i think he has hit the "rookie wall" maybe tired from the extra games and traveling as an nba player. I think he looks very lost many times in the lineup.

overall, i think he can become an important player but it will depend on his worth ethic and continued development of his game.


i like the defense ive been seeing from the knicks recently, sparked by the play and leadership from malik rose or herb.

Although I think sweetney has great moves offensively, when it comes down to it, he wont be much of a defender, shotblocker. He needs another big man that can spread the floor for him so he can isolate down low. One in which will also cover for the teams defense and help sweetney cover his liabilities as well.

I think sweetney will be great in a team like cleveland because lebron already draws so many defenders on him. Sweetney has great hands and can take many players in the league one on one.
Not to mention Big Z spreads the floor with his shot and can help a little with his height on defense, although he has slow feet too.

With that said, Im not sure if we can ever find a big man that can actually make such a big impact that we need. I think sweetney should be traded if his trade value increases. As much as I like sweetney, I just dont think he fits what we need to become a title contender with the attributes of our knicks.

I would like to goto another route looking for big men in the league.
Adding a player like shelden williams learning from a player like rose at practice will be a great experience.


Rebuilding will take years, but knicks will never tank on will.
We need to develop an identity with our medicore players and preach defense in the meantime ... finding a foundation for pieces that will help us contend for a championship team.

If we can land sheldan williams and somehow another big man in the near future, we can be a great Rebounding team and possibly good defensive team with ariza, williams, ?another player... and rose on the bench. I know its easier being said than done to find another big man of that caliber but if we actually are going to try to contend for a championship vs being a playoffcontender, thats the route I would take.

This type of big man might not be even available till houstons contract expires so we will need to possibly reconsider who will be the pieces that should be holding when we have the strength to make that push.

This is just an opinion of mine but I would enjoy hearing what you guys think of it....positve or negative thoughts?

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Also, Desmond Mason is a very skillful player as a scorer. You can tell, b/c he has some post moves, he can drive then pull up, he handles the ball very well and can take it to the hoop. For the most part, Ariza hasn't shown many signs of that yet. Again, he's only 19 and has plenty of years to develop that. It's just too early to tell.

Do you think Desomond Mason could do any of those things in the NBA at age 19?? Ariza's shown so much more than I expect any 19 year old to do in the NBA.
Regarding your other post, I don't know what you mean by "garbage points." If you're playing meaningful minutes, all points are meaningful not garbage. The fact that Ariza can put up points at 19 without having a polished offensive game shows how impressive his athleticism is and how much potential he has if he polishes his offensive game.

I agree, having a scorers mentality means getting points in a number of ways, ariza has shown he can do that, I remember corey magetti, when he first came into the league, very raw, no offensive moves, but could score in various ways, getting to the line, off feeds, dunks, putbacks, until he developed some moves, I see ariza in the same light, I think the moves will come with more confidence, but to get 20/10 in a NBA game as a 19 year old, is pretty impressive and can't be ignored, it is not like he is a 7'0 center who can get a lot of cheap put backs or scores simply because he is bigger than everyone on the court, this is a small forward doing that, a 19 year old one... heck 20/10 is a damn good game for yao ming..LOL..

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Also, Desmond Mason is a very skillful player as a scorer. You can tell, b/c he has some post moves, he can drive then pull up, he handles the ball very well and can take it to the hoop. For the most part, Ariza hasn't shown many signs of that yet. Again, he's only 19 and has plenty of years to develop that. It's just too early to tell.

Do you think Desomond Mason could do any of those things in the NBA at age 19?? Ariza's shown so much more than I expect any 19 year old to do in the NBA.
Regarding your other post, I don't know what you mean by "garbage points." If you're playing meaningful minutes, all points are meaningful not garbage. The fact that Ariza can put up points at 19 without having a polished offensive game shows how impressive his athleticism is and how much potential he has if he polishes his offensive game.

Garbage points don't = garbage. It's points you get by cleaning the offensive glass (Like the ones when he flies for dunks.) Lets not overrate him as a scorer here guys. He has a very erratic jumpshot still, and he is not a great ball handler yet. He has to work on those things. If they improve, THEN he will have the "Potential" to be a good scorer. If not, he'll never become a good scorer. I have faith he'll at least improve his shooting. Remember, we might not even need him to be a big scorer, pending on who we have.

Don't get so crazy on me when WE DON'T KNOW how he'll be as a scorer. You said you only watch half the games, but I watch them all, and I can evaluate guys pretty well. It's still very early to tell how Ariza will be as a scorer. It's good he gets nice scoring games, but that still doesn't show me how good a SCORER he'll be. He'll be a very good player. Scorer, I don't know. Overall player. Very good.

I agree with all that, but you've mentioned many times that he hasn't shown polished offensive skills. My point was that I wouldn't expect that from a 19 year old to begin with and I wouldn't make much out of the fact that he doesn't have it now.

Prince is way overrated both as a defender and as a player.

He has some of the ugliest moves on offense I ever saw, and his jumper is not all that great either.

He is also to thin, the reason he gets away with guarding postup 3's is because he fronts them using his length and gets help from the excellent overall Piston team defense.

But I bet if you put him on team that's wore then Detroit he might even loose his starting job. He is totally a product of the system.

He had one clutch play in last year's playoffs, big deal.

Ward had more clutch plays during the Knicks playoff run then Prince has had in his career, albeit it being a lot shorter for now.

Chris Childs had his moments, too.

Both were godawful pointuards. Anthony Carter made a game winner in a Heat-Ny playof game, where is he now?

Ben Wallace is the player that makes that team go, everyone else is easily replacable, and Prince is the least important part of that starting lineup.

Maybe if guys like Reggie had some pride and retured at the top of there game instead of stickin out and playin as shells of there former selfs, Reggie would actually have some footspeed anf lift left in him, and that lucky block would never happen.

The only reason that play happened is because Reggie is ancient.

Getting back to Ariza...man did he have a great game last night. He drove the ball and got a few dunks, hit a couple of jumpers, was hitting the boards, got steals, great on D. And really the best part of his game was that whenever he made a mistake on offense...like a turnover or something, he went back after it on defense and tried to get a steal of his own. Good mentality.