Posted by Marv:

Last night's game against the Heat shows why something is seriously wrong in LA. Either the coach is an idiot or Odom has no backbone. Why should Lamar take 9 shots in 43 minutes while Kobe takes 23 in 46, Atkins takes 18 in 41, and Caron Butler takes 14 in 36? I mean for crying out loud Brian Grant took 9 in 19. Brian freaking Grant!!!

Marv, you don't happen to be a poster on the NYT Knicks forum, do you?

Anyway, at the risk of inducing some deja vu for those who visit both forums, here's my 2 cents on this.

We can answer this question about Odom using the useage rate statistic. Useage rate (URG-r) estimates how much a player is used as a weapon in the offense by summing FGA, 0.44*FTA, and TO, and then scaling this number wrt minutes played and (I believe) pace factor. The resulting stat gives us a pretty good idea of how often a given player is used in his team's offense to try to score points.

With that in mind, Kobe leads the Lakers in USG-r (not surprisingly), clocking in at a massive 30.2 (second in the NBA only to Iverson's 32.4). Odom is second at 19.8, but this is not very much higher than teammates Tierre Brown (19.1!), Caron Butler (18.1), Brian Cook (17.3), Chris Mihm (17.2), and Chucky Atkins (17.1).

On the one hand, you'd expect Lamar's USG-r to be deflated a bit since he's such a great passer, and presumably his pass-to-touches ratio is much higher than most non-PG players. You could also look at this as saying that LA's offense is very egalitarian after Kobe, and it seems to be working pretty well, as LA is the 7th best team in the league in terms of offensive efficiency (points/possession * 100). But still, it is odd that Odom, with his great perimeter/penetration skills at the PF slot where it's tough for opposing players to guard him, is not getting a USG-r much higher than most of his teammates. You could make a pretty good argument that the Lakers are underutilizing him this season.

By way of comparison, Odom's USG-r for his first 5 seasons were 22.5, 23.1, 22.3, 21.0, and 22.8. That last number is Odom's USG from his lone season in Miami, where he shared the ball more or less equally with Dwyane Wade (23.5) and Caron Butler played a clear cut third banana with a USG of 17.0.

So it does look like Odom is not being featured in the offense as much as he probably should be. LA's offense is basically "Kobe n' pals," and Odom's skills are not exploited much more than his less skilled teammates. In the past, Odom has been a more clear cut first or second option, which seems more befitting a player with his offensive talents.

[Edited by - tomverve on 03/18/2005 12:21:01]

I didn't mean to be disrespectful, I am sorry...However, our lineup next season can't have Kurt Thomas writen in it...Especially as our starting Center... I would much rather give the chance to Bruno than having Kurt Thomas in there as our starting Center....Kurt needs to go to a winning team as compensation for all of the good work that he has done as a Knicks...We need fresh blood, nothing from the past to remind us of the Layden era...That era has brought nothing but bad luck to our organization....It is like many of us have been saying on this board,, we need to draft a true Center and develop him....We already have Butler as a project, it will not hurt to draft a true skilled 7' to share that position with....Kurt is undersize, and most of all, unathletic...If he was a presence as a shot blocker, I wouldn't mind, but he is not...Trade him while we can...get a draft pick for him and invest it in either a true center or a PG....



[quote]
Posted by TMS:

first of all, that was my lineup i posted...second of all, i never said that lineup would win a championship...i said it would be able to contend in the East next year w/teams other than the Heat, since no other teams in the East have a real dominant C...what other 3 some in the frontcourt is a better rebounding squad in the East than KT, Sweetney & Odom? name me 1...also, name me 1 team in the East that gives you the versatility & balanced game that roster does...let's see your genius at work diderotn, since you're so fond of making comments about other people's idea...

oh yeah, i forgot, you wanted to do this in the other thread:

I would much rather give the chance to Bruno than having Kurt Thomas in there as our starting Center....Kurt needs to go to a winning team as compensation for all of the good work that he has done as a Knicks...

Bruno? dude, the guy's a scrub...purely a 12th man type player...why on earth would you rather see him getting minutes over KT? that just doesn't make sense...everyone on this board realizes KT's limitations as a player, but to say you'd rather have Bruno starting is absurd...& as for KT deserving anything for all the hard work over the years, he already got that...it's called his ridiculous contract extension with the trade kicker he received from Isiah that's severely hampering any attempt to trade him at this point...let him be happy with that...we're not talking about Patrick Ewing here.

Kurt Thomas has to go but for a guy who is a little better than F'N Bruno Sundov!!! lol

if you can't do better than Sundov then its best to just keep KT at center. But Zeke has made it clear that that won't be the case when he said we still need a center. So one of these guys will be on the Knicks: Bogut, Splitter, Nene, Curry, Kwame, Swift

How will Swift help our Center position? Dude is shorter Kurt Thomas, but only jump higher::))

Posted by gunsnewing:

Kurt Thomas has to go but for a guy who is a little better than F'N Bruno Sundov!!! lol

if you can't do better than Sundov then its best to just keep KT at center. But Zeke has made it clear that that won't be the case when he said we still need a center. So one of these guys will be on the Knicks: Bogut, Splitter, Nene, Curry, Kwame, Swift

You have to make it palatable for LA. Take back some bad contracts (Grant), give up some young talent (Sweetney).

New York trades: PF Mike Sweetney (8.2 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.5 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas (11.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.4 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (7.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.0 apg in 24.6 minutes)
New York receives: C Brian Grant (3.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 15.1 minutes)
PF Lamar Odom (15.4 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.7 apg in 36.4 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -8.7 ppg, +2.7 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

L.A. Lakers trades: C Brian Grant (3.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 15.1 minutes)
PF Lamar Odom (15.4 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.7 apg in 36.4 minutes)
Devean George (No games yet played in 2004/05)
L.A. Lakers receives: PF Mike Sweetney (8.2 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.5 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas (11.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.4 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (7.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.0 apg in 24.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +8.7 ppg, -2.7 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New York and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New York and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You have been assigned Trade ID number 2327240

unless you're throwing some 1st round picks LA's way, i don't see that as very palateable for the Lakers to be honest...i thought my offer was better from their standpoint as they were getting 2 talented young players & a filler PF who can play off the bench & give them solid minutes...all LA gets from that deal is some cap relief & Mike Sweetney for Lamar Odom?

Any trade to get Lamar Odom or Zach Randolph would require at a *bare minimum* giving up our lottery pick and an expiring contract and taking back a bad contract.

Can't say I know what every team in the league has to offer. But I find it hard to believe the Knicks could get Odom. He's young multi-talented and getting better. I think their would have to be some teams out there who could and would offer more then the Knicks could match.

Posted by Allanfan20:

I'd do it for Odom. Not Randolf.

Why not? Do you really think the player we'd get with the 8th pick would be better than Zach? Anything's possible but the odds are certainly against it

As I said in another thread, my interest in Randolph depends entirely on his recovery from injury. He's having arthroscopic surgery, which is actually quiet common for NBA players. It's nothing like Dyess's situation, but if doctors had any concerns after examining him, I'd forget about trading for him.

I like Odom and I would love to have him on the team, but I'm not sure a Marbury/Odom combo would fare better than a Kobe/Odom combo (which has been a huge disappointment). An SF who plays like a point forward usually isn't the best compliment for a guard who dominates the ball (either Marbury or Kobe). Both players (Marbury and Kobe) would be much better off playing with a low post scorer, even if that player overall were less talented (like Zach).

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/18/2005 22:16:22]