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Bonn1997
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Just curious what you think about the team payroll.
I want the Knicks to get under the cap
I want the Knicks to decrease payroll but don't mind if they're over the cap
I don't care about payroll; it's Dolan's money--not mine
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Author Thread
franco12
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3/18/2005  2:35 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

Tom said it perfectly... its about bang for your buck and about flexibility. When Mo Taylor and his contract hurt your chances or options to make a trade then payroll is a problem.
So, are you predicting that Isiah won't have any options because of the payroll and won't be able to make trades over the next 11 months that upgrade the roster significantly? We can easily test that prediction by seeing what happens

If TT & Penny both get traded in deals where we end up getting some nice, marginal all star (Marbury), but take back a horrendous deal (Hardaway), then yes, that will completly cap this team out from making future moves after that. No more MLE, nothing

Personally, unless your getting Shaq for TT & Penny, one of those two contracts must be allowed to expire.
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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3/18/2005  3:14 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

Tom said it perfectly... its about bang for your buck and about flexibility. When Mo Taylor and his contract hurt your chances or options to make a trade then payroll is a problem.
So, are you predicting that Isiah won't have any options because of the payroll and won't be able to make trades over the next 11 months that upgrade the roster significantly? We can easily test that prediction by seeing what happens

If TT & Penny both get traded in deals where we end up getting some nice, marginal all star (Marbury), but take back a horrendous deal (Hardaway), then yes, that will completly cap this team out from making future moves after that. No more MLE, nothing
What? The MLE has nothing to do with the cap. And we'll have nice expiring deals every year because of the large contracts we have. We should be able to go into each offseason with comparable trade assets to this one (2 1st rd picks and $30 mil in expiring contracts) as well as the MLE.
djsunyc
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3/18/2005  4:08 PM
i think payroll is an issue. i think if we don't get it down to manageability, like others have said, it severly hurts our flexiblity in making coherent trades to improve in certain areas. does this prevent us from making any trades? of course not, this has been proven. but it's also been proven that moving all these expiring deals have not yielded a winner. one of these days, we will be stuck, it could happen this summer after the cba, it could come after a new owner comes here, or it could've already happened (since we've stunk 3 years in a row) but operating in this manner will only prolong this state of mediocrity.

why do you think we were able to trade nazr and get two draft picks back? is it b/c he's a better player than malik rose? nope, we got the two picks back b/c he's a decent player BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, has a manageable and decent contract.

making big $$$ trades means taking back bad contracts and wasting another roster spot on somebody you can't move until they expire (penny). it's just perpetuating this state of mediocrity. you can blame layden. you can say it was him not using the money wisely. that's fine. but with isiah, it hasn't worked yet. we're all patient, and we're all willing (well most of us are) to see what happens but OBIOUSLY, isiah also wanted to get into this draft b/c he knows that's the best way to build a core.

he's probably going to trade tim or penny and we're probably going to get back someone like zach randolph or finley. will they make us better, yes they will. will they make us a championship contender, no they won't. this summer will dictate alot.

everyone was talking about allan houston and how we would never be under or near the cap until he's gone. well, we are now biting into the year AFTER houston. so we'll see, b/c if isiah messes up this summer, we'll be stuck for 3 more years AFTER this one.
Bonn1997
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3/18/2005  4:41 PM
he's probably going to trade tim or penny and we're probably going to get back someone like zach randolph or finley. will they make us better, yes they will. will they make us a championship contender, no they won't.
I think that's the wrong way to look at it (at least regarding a young stud like Zach Randolph). No one guy is going to make us a championship contender. A guy like Zach will move us in the direction of becoming a contender, though. Just like adding Antoine Walker or Antoine Jamison didn't make the Celtics or Wizards championship contenders but helped them move in the right direction.

but it's also been proven that moving all these expiring deals have not yielded a winner.
No, it hasn't been proven. Isiah's had two half seasons. It's ridiculous to say that that's enough time to prove that expiring deals can't be part of trades that yield a winning team.

why do you think we were able to trade nazr and get two draft picks back? is it b/c he's a better player than malik rose? nope, we got the two picks back b/c he's a decent player BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, has a manageable and decent contract.
Many players on the team have contracts that will also look manageable and appealing in their final years just like Nazy's did.

one of these days, we will be stuck, it could happen this summer after the cba
It's hard to imagine that. There would have to be a rule preventing teams from trading expiring contracts or requiring teams that make a trade to match the contracts for the entire lives of the contracts rather than just the present season. There's just no motivation for changing the current system. Wealthy teams like it because they can use expiring contracts in deals to improve their teams and take back more payroll. Poorer teams like it because they can get rid of bad contracts in deals in exchange for expiring contracts if they add something to sweeten the deal.

MX25
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3/18/2005  6:24 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

I have a feeling Isiah might severely overpay for Eddie Curry which is nto a move I'm willing to do.
What would be severely overpaying in your opinion for a 22 year old with his skills? (Just wondering) Keep in mind that guys like Adonal Foyle, Brian Cardinal, etc. are getting MLE contracts ($40 mil)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/18/2005 11:41:21]

What does Mullin being a moron with Foyle have to do with Knicks and Curry?

Don't bring up Cardinal in overpaid subject with Foyle. Cause Cardinal is 1 of the hardest workers in NBA. He does everything for Grizzlies. And since he's been starting/getting mins he's avg'ing 15.0 points 4.7 rebounds 3.4 assists and 2.2 steals. So i'd say he's worth the 4.8 million he's getting.
Kwazimodal
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3/18/2005  6:38 PM
The length of the contract is also a big issue.Id like to see the Knicks cut down on trading for or signing players with long term deals except when going after franchise quality talent.

The salary is an issue but not as much if the contract doesnt run too long.



Bonn1997
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3/18/2005  10:18 PM
Posted by MX25:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

I have a feeling Isiah might severely overpay for Eddie Curry which is nto a move I'm willing to do.
What would be severely overpaying in your opinion for a 22 year old with his skills? (Just wondering) Keep in mind that guys like Adonal Foyle, Brian Cardinal, etc. are getting MLE contracts ($40 mil)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/18/2005 11:41:21]

What does Mullin being a moron with Foyle have to do with Knicks and Curry?

Don't bring up Cardinal in overpaid subject with Foyle. Cause Cardinal is 1 of the hardest workers in NBA. He does everything for Grizzlies. And since he's been starting/getting mins he's avg'ing 15.0 points 4.7 rebounds 3.4 assists and 2.2 steals. So i'd say he's worth the 4.8 million he's getting.
Those were just the first two examples who came to mind, but basically any role player who can give you 10 and 6 gets the full MLE now.
franco12
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3/19/2005  1:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

Tom said it perfectly... its about bang for your buck and about flexibility. When Mo Taylor and his contract hurt your chances or options to make a trade then payroll is a problem.
So, are you predicting that Isiah won't have any options because of the payroll and won't be able to make trades over the next 11 months that upgrade the roster significantly? We can easily test that prediction by seeing what happens

If TT & Penny both get traded in deals where we end up getting some nice, marginal all star (Marbury), but take back a horrendous deal (Hardaway), then yes, that will completly cap this team out from making future moves after that. No more MLE, nothing
What? The MLE has nothing to do with the cap. And we'll have nice expiring deals every year because of the large contracts we have. We should be able to go into each offseason with comparable trade assets to this one (2 1st rd picks and $30 mil in expiring contracts) as well as the MLE.

Bonn- at some point, the Knicks aren't going to be able to generate enough revenue to pay the salary cap tax- and that's when they'll stop signing players with the MLE
Silverfuel
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3/19/2005  1:10 PM
I voted

"I want the Knicks to decrease payroll but don't mind if they're over the cap"

I want them to decrease payroll because I want them to have flexibility to sign and trade Boozer, Nene etc. If they can do that without lowering the current payroll, I couldnt care less how much money they spend.

I kinda agree with "bang for the buck" but we need to be patient. We have to evaluate "bang for the buck" in Feb 2006 at the trade deadline. That will give us a better idea.

Did Marv and martin vote in this poll yet? Where is Pike? What does he think?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
rvhoss
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3/19/2005  1:25 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I have a feeling Isiah might severely overpay for Eddie Curry which is nto a move I'm willing to do.

I'm scared of this too.
all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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3/19/2005  1:29 PM
I have a feeling Tiny Tim is here to stay. Isiah has a "local product" theory that appears to be paying off...btw...Did you guys notice mello was born in NYC?

I know, I know...but a playa can dream (no pun intended playa)
all kool aid all the time.
TMS
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3/19/2005  6:57 PM
Tim's from Patterson, NJ.

btw, Shaq was born in Newark...there's some more material for your fantasy bro...keep dreamin'
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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